[Dose]

1) According to the Mercedes Benz India website, the W204 C-class C220 CDI diesel and C200 Kompressor petrol both are currently available with a 6-speed manual gearbox: Mercedes-Benz India - Mercedes-Benz India - C-Class Saloon - Technical Specifications Is this true? 2) If the 6-speed manual transmission is now available, is the C220 diesel also available with a driver knee airbag especially since the new India market E-class has a standard knee airbag? 3) How many years is the warranty? How many years is the extended warranty? 4) Why is there no Teambhp review of an India-market C-class? The one done in America is not good enough because that test car was a USA-market car. 5) Why is the HTML code off? I checked NoScript, Adblock, and User CP settings and am still not able to format this post the way I want.

[lamborghini]

Dose,

While I am not aware about the manual box for the W204 C Class, there are plenty of reviews of the C Class.
Check this link out for owner reviews of the C Class: Team-BHP - The Definitive Indian Car Community - Test Drives

For details about the gearbox, and airbags, the best bet would be the dealerships as no one on T-BHP has seen one or heard of one as yet.
GTO's W203 C220 came with a manual gearbox, and I believe it was the last of the German luxury sedans to offer one.

EDIT: do check this link out as well - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...gy-mumbai.html
On the last post made by sidindica, it is mentioned that the C220 CDI has been replaced by the C250 CDI, and the C220 Executive edition is only for fleet orders.
Also, the C200K has been replaced with the C200 CGI.

[DicKy]

Teah , but dose ids right. There is a manual version of the C class available, yet no review available.The lone modern RWD car in india with manual tranny,if am right.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Dose

Is this true? 2) If the 6-speed manual transmission is now available

Merc needs to update their website. The C 6 speed manual has been discontinued.

Why is there no Teambhp review of an India-market C-class?

Do refer to the link provided by Lamborghini; it contains all you need to know about the C Class.

Originally Posted by DicKy

The lone modern RWD car in india with manual tranny,if am right.

The Omni, Nano and Eeco? The last two are modern too

[Dose]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Check this link out

Lambo, thank you for the links.

Originally Posted by GTO

Merc needs to update their website. The C 6 speed manual has been discontinued.

Do refer to the link provided by Lamborghini; it contains all you need to know about the C Class.

GTO, While the Testdrive report summary is very good, I was hoping for a review like the one you did for the latest W212 E-class which includes photographs. However, it does not seem to matter anymore because after reading your W212 review and checking the MB India website, I am annoyed that MB is up to the same dirty tricks as when they first entered India -- screwing the customer. They have not changed.

When the W212 was introduced in India and the website was updated, I was very happy to see them advertising the knee airbag under the safety section of the site. Mercedes was finally giving Indians a fully loaded car, especially with regard to safety features. Of course, I failed to read the fine print at the bottom of the page.

Similarly, I was overjoyed a few days ago to see them offering the 6-speed manual again on the C-class. If they were offering this, then surely they would also have the sense to include a knee airbag. Naturally, I failed to read the fine print.

When they do not care enough to:

1) design an India-spec website without the bait-and-switch tactics,

2) offer the same safety features to Indians compared to what the Europeans and Americans are getting,

3) offer a two+three or two+five (total of five to seven years) extended warranty instead of only a two+one year warranty versus Hyundai's two+three, Honda's two+two, and BMW's two+three,

then I cannot, in good conscience, recommend Mercedes Benz India products to others.

And the other German alternatives are not attractive either: BMW has run-flats, automatic gearboxes, and a smaller service network; Audi has a smaller network, automatic's, and long waiting periods for parts; Skoda's service and cheating is a joke; VW has a smaller service network and terrible reliability.

I am hoping Hyundai starts selling its latest Sonata (reliable, excellent service, manual transmission, diesel, very good IIHS test results) or the latest Tucson/ix35, which also ticks the same boxes as the Sonata.

Till then, there are the tried and true Camry, Accord, and i20 Asta-O.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by Dose

GTO, While the Testdrive report summary is very good, I was hoping for a review like the one you did for the latest W212 E-class which includes photographs. However, it does not seem to matter anymore because after reading your W212 review and checking the MB India website, I am annoyed that MB is up to the same dirty tricks as when they first entered India -- screwing the customer. They have not changed.

And the other German alternatives are not attractive either: BMW has run-flats, automatic gearboxes, and a smaller service network; Audi has a smaller network, automatic's, and long waiting periods for parts; Skoda's service and cheating is a joke; VW has a smaller service network and terrible reliability.

I am hoping Hyundai starts selling its latest Sonata (reliable, excellent service, manual transmission, diesel, very good IIHS test results) or the latest Tucson/ix35, which also ticks the same boxes as the Sonata.

Till then, there are the tried and true Camry, Accord, and i20 Asta-O.

@Dose: Do give the BMW a chance. They maybe automatics, but they are tiptronic gearboxes, and I think they come with paddle shifts on certain models. Also, they are superb to drive. I fully agree that the runflats are a sore point, and even on our E60, the run-flats give up much before the car does. However, many members have changed their tyres to regular tubeless tyres, and are very happy!
Also, with their service package, and full coverage insurance policy, as well as fully loaded variants, they are really a force to reckon with.
After owning one, the Japanese and Korean just don't feel good enough.

As for the Testdrive section, they are a compilation of the key points of various owner reviews, and I doubt T-BHP will be able to cover all the points of the car with pics. In the case of GTO's review of the W212, he spent considerable time with the car and was invited by Mercedes, and had full access to click the pics.
However, in the Testdrive section, the mods request owners of the cars to let them use a picture of the car from their T-BHP gallery. It would be very time consuming for the mods to go through various threads to hunt for pictures, which many may not appreciate.
However, the suggestion is a very good one.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by GTO

The Omni, Nano and Eeco? The last two are modern too

Err. GTO i meant to say sedan
Merc 6 speed m/t discontinued?
So that leaves out any RWD modern 'SEDAN' with M/T.

[FlyingSpur]

Originally Posted by Dose

BMW has run-flats, automatic gearboxes, and a smaller service network;

Trade in the RFTs on delivery and get regular tubeless with a space saver. Pull the car in every gear in tiptronic and feel the torque relentlessly pulling you along. The service is right upto the mark.

Give it a shot

[Dose]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

@Dose: Do give the BMW a chance. They maybe automatics, but they are tiptronic gearboxes, and I think they come with paddle shifts on certain models. Also, they are superb to drive. I fully agree that the runflats are a sore point, and even on our E60, the run-flats give up much before the car does. However, many members have changed their tyres to regular tubeless tyres, and are very happy!
Also, with their service package, and full coverage insurance policy, as well as fully loaded variants, they are really a force to reckon with.
After owning one, the Japanese and Korean just don't feel good enough.

Lambo,
I have definitely given BMW a chance. In the past, I was a big fan of their vehicles. But the more I got to know them, the more disappointed I was with what they advertised versus what they delivered. And then I found Porsche. Porsche, from what I read, eclipsed BMW in almost all areas except reliability and crash test results (I have yet to find a single independent crash test of a Porsche unfortunately.)

Then, to make things worse, BMW went in a different direction with their styling, their refusal to offer fixed piston caliper brakes with a firm brake pedal feel, their active steering, their lousy crash test results, and their refusal to give customers a spare tyre as an option at the time of ordering. And now, USA JD Power VDS reliability ratings over the past three years show BMW reliability has stayed the same despite everyone else improving which results in their reliability hovering below the 2010 industry average. In contrast, Merc reliability is, for the first time in a long time, above the industry average. Let's see if Mercedes can maintain this position for two more years.

I have driven Bimmer's with tiptronics. They are nice but are no match
for their manual versions especially for a hard-core enthusiast like me who loves rev matching and heel and toeing.
I also tried and hated their version of tiptronic paddle shifters.

Exchanging run-flats at the time of delivery and carrying a compact spare, jack and tools is not acceptable because it reduces the already limited boot space. And when Mercedes, Audi and even the Nano, offer spare wheels in a separate compartment without affecting the boot space, it seems ridiculous that BMW is being so stubborn.

As someone pointed out in another thread, an Indian BMW driver who is stuck 300 km halfway between Bombay and Goa on runflats will not be able to make it to either place because the run-flats have a limited range. Those of us who like to travel on long distance journeys know better than to take this risk. Australians also have this same problem and the wise ones refuse to travel in or purchase a car that has no provision for a spare.

When paying over 100% duty on an imported car, is it too much to ask the manufacturer to design a car with a spare plus plenty of cargo space?
If a car maker is able to get away with cutting costs like this, it speaks to the type of customers they have.

When a 2 lakh rupee Nano has a feature that a 30 lakh to 1 crore car does not have, it questions the sanity of the latter's customers. The ultimate driving machine, indeed!

Terry Walker:

Too many of today's new cars are purely urban shopping trolleys, not real cars.

The AUTOSPORT Bulletin Board > today's run-flat tyres: 500 miles while flat?

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Dose

Then, to make things worse, BMW went in a different direction with their styling

So agree! While looks are subjective, the single largest deterrent (for me) to the Bangled cars is their quirky styling. But hey, BMW seems to be getting back on track. The new 7 & 5 are stunning lookers. The 3 is already starting to feel long in the tooth now. Hopefully, the next gen comes around sooner rather than later.

I have driven Bimmer's with tiptronics. They are nice but are no match
for their manual versions especially for a hard-core enthusiast like me who loves rev matching and heel and toeing.

It's thoroughly refreshing to see an enthusiast who's craving for an M/T German. The 6 speed tranny is one of the main reasons why I'm not letting go of my C220. Working through the gearbox on a long highway is pure bliss....automatics can dream on!

As someone pointed out in another thread, an Indian BMW driver who is stuck 300 km halfway between Bombay and Goa on runflats will not be able to make it to either place because the run-flats have a limited range.

That someone is me ! Runflats don't suit my kind of driving at all. They are a flawed concept.

[FlyingSpur]

Originally Posted by Dose

If a car maker is able to get away with cutting costs like this, it speaks to the type of customers they have.

When a 2 lakh rupee Nano has a feature that a 30 lakh to 1 crore car does not have, it questions the sanity of the latter's customers.

Sweeeeeeeeeping statements !

We could have either :

1. Cribbed about the lack of a spare tyre, bought a C with an in-dash display with a poorer resolution than my 3-year old cellphone, driven THE most boring car of the 3 Germans in the segment, and invited Merc to dig into our savings at will, or...

2. Accepted some quirks, canned the runflats, picked up a space-saver, bought peace of mind with the BSI, and driven the best driver's car in the segment with good comfort and slightly compromised boot space.

We chose the latter. And traveling light for it is no biggie. I must be insane !