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Old 22nd July 2010, 11:31   #61
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Originally Posted by JRD View Post
i think it has mostly to do with ignorance and a false perception that is difficult to change. Sadly what happens in india is people build their opinions on brands based on things they might have heard from others (who by the way might be sharing their experiences based on some third persons story)
We Indians are a closely knit community.
i.e we keep in touch with our relatives all through the year,
and on an average we all have atleast 500 relatives & friends (near and not so near). and we get to meet them atleast thrice a year during weddings, festivals, etc,etc
So 'word of mouth' spreads much faster and wider in India than in the west.

Another reason is, a car buying decision is not made by an individual in our country. It is a collective decision made by the family in 90% of all car purchases.

So past performance affects today's decisions vastly. If X company has improved and is on par with Y company today that will reflect in their future sales.

I don't think only Indian companies are discriminated. Even foreign players like Fiat and Ford are disuaded by many(common public) because of their past.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 15:45   #62
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
The title itself explains what i mean to ask. By indian brands, i mean to ask about Mahindra & Tata. Maruti is not considered as almost all its cars are japanese!

This incident happened to me yesterday. I picked up one of my friend in my scorpio & we parked our car in the underground parking of a commercial building. The parking had about 10-12 cars & around 6-8 of them were base model scorpios. the following conversation happened between me & my friend, rohit-

Rohit: this parking is full of scorpios!

Me: yes, all are base models with no wheelcaps. maybe all of them belong to some firm who has it's office in this complex.

R: but why scorpio? are they mad?

M: why? whats wrong?

R: i think a scorpio costs 10 lakhs right. they could have gone for a toyota innova. why opt for a mahindra?

M: whats wrong in a mahindra?

R: Dude, mahindras are not meant to make cars. they should only make trucks.

M: trucks?! mahindra has not been making trucks at all (on a large scale). they used to make tractors initially.

R: yea whatever, then whats that company- oh yea, thats tata...!

M: right!

R: LOL, so you bought a car from a tractor maker?!!! even mahindras should make only that old jeeps (pointing to a mahindra classic parked in a corner) & tractors used in villages.

M: have you ever driven or owned a mahindra or tata?

R: no, i would never ever buy a mahindra or tata. who wants to be seen in them?

(he has a honda city - NHC)

M: then how can you comment on its vehicles?

R: cmon dude, the world knows, tatas & mahindras can make only low quality, unreliable & cheap cars. these indian brands cannot compete with the japs. so its best they stick to their trucks & jeeps. why would a family man buy these cars when you get a honda or toyota for the same price?

M: then why do you see so many tatas & scorpios on the road?

R: what? i have never seen too many scorpios & in tatas, only call centre guys & taxi owners buy indicas. which other car does tata make anyway?

M: LOL, you dont even know which cars tata & mahindra makes?

R: man, whose bothered about them? who cares? i would never ever in my life buy a mahindra or tata, so why should i look at them?

M: sure, i wont challenge your opinions (i dont need to!) but i would still suggest you atleast drive a mahindra or tata first & then comment. i accept they wont have the finesse & quality of your jap cars but then they offer many other things which make it more VFM.

R: LOL, i dont wanna risk my life & waste my money by buying a tata or mahindra! so i dont need to drive such crude vehicles.

M: okay, i wont debate then!

After exiting from the vehicle, he sees the bonnet scoop on my car.

R: dude, whats this? why have you fitted this?

M: its not aftermarket, its standard.

R: LOL, what was mahindra thinking? a bonnet scoop will make it's vehicle powerful?

M: Nopes, but it works, its not a dummy. it feeds air to the intercooler.

R: yea whatever! Measures to fool the indian public, as if this car will go drag racing!

After that, i stopped commenting.

But this made me think, are Indian brands considered so cheap? why are indian cars downgraded? whats so wrong with them? why do indians hate seeing themselves in an indian car?

how many in the real world actually think like my friend? i have some other friends too who after sitting in or driving my car has told me, "i cant believe this is mahindra. i never used to even give the scorpio a glance before. after all, its a mahindra...". now some have been recommending scorpios to others. i have personally met many who have bought the innova without even test driving the scorpio or safari. Now, i do know that the innova is superior to both the SUVs, but not even test driving the SUVs mean you dont even want to consider the indian brands in front of a jap brand.

so does that mean, if i have 11 lakhs... if i buy a innova, i am more "classy" & if i buy a scorpio, i am a "villager"?
What you have quoted here Raj is a classic example of the snob value of the H badge and a owner who is completely head over heels with it. Indians as buyers are very concious and I would like to rephrase your question ,If I may so that foreign brands are looked upto more than the indian brands but 5-7 yrs down the line the situation will be very different.

At the moment TATA and Mahindra are the only companies to offer an SUV under 10L range. Indica Vista Aura+(p) is the only sub 5.5 l OTR car with safety features like ABS and Air bags along with the space and comfort of a C segment car.

Different brands have different core competencies, for Indians they are Space/Comfort and VFM factor, for Japs/Koreans its the engine refinement and interior finish and for the Europeans its the sheer build quality and not all Indian buyers understand this which results in baseless statements like M&M and TATA are Truck manufacturers.

So to answer your question do you look like a villager if you spend 11L on a scorpio. No you dont. All it means is that your set of requirements for buying a car are different from the one buying an innova.

Last edited by MihirC : 22nd July 2010 at 15:51.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 18:34   #63
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Originally Posted by MihirC View Post
So to answer your question do you look like a villager if you spend 11L on a scorpio. No you dont. All it means is that your set of requirements for buying a car are different from the one buying an innova.

but i would say the situation is not entirely different in T-BHP. Japs are considered the "Gods" among cars even here. I am not stereotyping all members but some are there, who have never agreed that an indian car can beat a jap car (in threads where indica vista & swift is compared or in another thread where scorpio/safari is compared to innova) in any parameter.

the word "any" is important as i do realize that overall as a product, some of the jap cars are far superior.

some instances i remember (point 2 are by Jap fans):

1> indica vista offers more space & better ride quality than the swift, at a lower cost.
2> swift is a japanese product, so it would be more reliable. (this was before the vista was launched!)

now, i understand that tata cars do give some issues, but such wild speculations even before the car is released???

the maximum number of times i have seen such biased opinion are in scorpio/safari threads where innova comes into picture. many opinions are from people who have never test driven the new scorpio or safari.

1> (by me) i have an innova as well as a scorpio. the scorpio is more refined than the innova.
2> LOL, are you kidding me? a scorpio is more refined!!!

these are the guys who have never sat in a scorpio but are adamant that a "mahindra" can never be more refined than a "toyota". my personal experience says NVH is definitely better in the scorpio, except the scorpio's vibrating gear lever in 3rd gear! the engine noise is lesser in scorpio's cabin & even very little outside/road/tyre noise filters into a scorpio's cabin, compared to an innova. to those guys who wont bother sitting in a "mahindra", open a scorpio's door pad, you will notice the kind of insulation mahindra has provided on the doors.

i am not against all jap cars, but i dislike their cars for many reasons. they are very puny, they are built of wafer thin sheet metal & their high revving engines dont inspire me. if the japs are so superior, why have they not introduced a good diesel engine below 15 lakhs till now? dont say the innova's D-4D engine is good, its nowhere as powerful or refined as the mHawk or DICOR. heck, even the engine in the 25 lakh fortuner is noisy. many will say, they compensate by offering reliable engines. i have never been stranded on the road because of any engine issue. Look at the features provided & look at the performance, its not indian companies which are cheap, the japs are! all in the name of reliability! and indian cars are often blamed for the poor fit & finish, which will hardly bother your ownership experience.

now i do expect a lot of bashing because if this!

Last edited by raj_5004 : 22nd July 2010 at 18:37.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 18:59   #64
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Sigh .. Raj that is life not only automobiles but lots of other areas ,perception matters a lot on from where a product or person ( in human resource ) based industry is coming from.

I am working in a cellphone comp. we internally demoed some feature 2 years back and the response was " good effort but can't go to market" leading 2 platforms introduced same in latest releases and question asked is why it could not have been done earlier :-)

Similarly in my wife's comp. the US based client had some problem which was traced to a faulty networking component (switch) analysis was given but customer kept on insisting on RCA not believing them finally a US based consultant was hired at 300 US$ per hours who showed to client where the fault is.

So crux of the story people are dismissive of products/projects/proposals which come from a country where roads have potholes , traffic is chaotic and power is intermittent , people are never in time blah blah.
It takes many years of confidence building and winning over to convert them.
Even we people blame late-latifi and chalta hai attitude but how many times we think people are always on time in developed economies because metros and buses enable them to come in time and reach homes in time so they are refresh and alert next day.

Service providers fix things and fit right parts in time because couriers don't get stuck due to infrastructure bottlenecks and they get parts and materials well in time.

So in all it depends on the overall development which allows society as whole to become more efficient,reliable and of higher quality which generates trust in general. The same trust gets reflected in brands and products from that country.

Sorry for long rant but that is my own personal opinion.

Impressions can not change overnight wise people do not go by impressions and throw money, I am glad you are wise ;-)

Last edited by amitk26 : 22nd July 2010 at 19:01.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 23:14   #65
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Short Answer:
This is called growing pains. We as in India or Indians do not have a world class product at any level. So once we start coming up with products the perception of common person(who bases his/her opinions on inputs/choices from neighbors, friends, relatives, coworkers, etc.) will gradually change.

Here is an apt couplet from Thirukkural:
Yepporul yaryar vaiketpinum apporul
mei porul kaanbadhu arivu
My English translation:
It is wise to verify yourself and find the truth about anything and everything you hear from others instead of blindly trusting whatever is said by whoever it may be.
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