Quality Difference in Maruti vs Tata

crazycardude198 · 27th October 2010, 21:38

Hi guys!
I had this question lurking about in my head. By now most of you would have heard about the Aria, as well as its niggles. Well, I've owned 3 Maruti Wagon R's ( dont ask me why) and TBH I have not had any major technical issues with the recent two. The first one was a little touchy though but the models after that were overall pretty good.

My question is this. Maruti have almost 80%+ localization for most of their cars. So do TATA. So then why are Maruti cars built better?
Arent both these car makers using Indian made parts?

typeOnegative · 27th October 2010, 21:46

Well for one, Maruti has its Japanese genes. Secondly it has almost a 10 year headstart on the Tata Passenger Cars. Thirdly, Tata has its genes in the Truck segment. And our desi truck drivers are high on reliability and less on build.

PAVAN KADAM · 27th October 2010, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycardude198

Hi guys!
I had this question lurking about in my head. By now most of you would have heard about the Aria, as well as its niggles. Well, I've owned 3 Maruti Wagon R's ( dont ask me why) and TBH I have not had any major technical issues with the recent two. The first one was a little touchy though but the models after that were overall pretty good.

My question is this. Maruti have almost 80%+ localization for most of their cars. So do TATA. So then why are Maruti cars built better?
Arent both these car makers using Indian made parts?

Well, in the present day, i dont see Maruti's taking any big leap in quality, Wherever they were in 1990, they have remained steady, While TATA has taken a big leap with the quality products and its quality its offering.

valhallen.282 · 27th October 2010, 22:39

Agreed if tata had launched the indica they have today 3 years ago they would have been spot on and the indica today as we know it would be a world better. So they have catching up to do. Secondly when maruti started they were a company building jap cars to sell here! So their base roots were jap. Similarly tata originally used to built the ckd of mercedes benz trucks. My dads driven a few and they were lovely! That was in the 80's. That apparently is where the truck building started. Though I'm not fully sure. And then they got down to passenger cars many many years later. And they are learning. The curve is steep and the climb hard but I think their diesels have the grunt and the mind power to reach the top of the slopes. They'll get there eventually.

PS: just hope and pray the slope doesn't grow too much by the time they get there!

crazycardude198 · 27th October 2010, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by valhallen.282

Agreed if tata had launched the indica they have today 3 years ago they would have been spot on and the indica today as we know it would be a world better. So they have catching up to do. Secondly when maruti started they were a company building jap cars to sell here! So their base roots were jap. Similarly tata originally used to built the ckd of mercedes benz trucks. My dads driven a few and they were lovely! That was in the 80's. That apparently is where the truck building started. Though I'm not fully sure. And then they got down to passenger cars many many years later. And they are learning. The curve is steep and the climb hard but I think their diesels have the grunt and the mind power to reach the top of the slopes. They'll get there eventually.

PS: just hope and pray the slope doesn't grow too much by the time they get there!

Fair point. I think Tata quality overall has improved. When I went to see the Aria, I sat in the Safari next to it. I cannot tell you how shocked I was at the difference in the two cars!

Having said that, is the quality level in Tata cars close to the competition or is it a gap too wide??

aroop · 27th October 2010, 23:16

Having a Japanese parent introduced Maruti to the concept of quality management, a term unknown in the Indian auto industry in 1982.

Most of the components are purchased from domestic vendors (so the 80% localization concept), but Maruti makes sure that defective items are not accepted. They have developed vendors like Sona Steering and Subros, which are big names now. These vendors, in turn have been forced to work the Suzuki way. (Souce of info: 'The Maruti story' by RC Bhargava)

Tata, on the other hand has a more 'desi' way of working. They do not mind using components with slightly larger variance, and hence the end result as we see. But to their credit, they have kept costs low, which I guess was their largest focus. I remember reading somewhere that Ratan Tata wanted to make Indica the world's cheapest car, but could not do so, Hence Nano followed.

My 2 cents.

avishar · 27th October 2010, 23:16

But i think the question here is both Maruti and Tata make there cars here in India,using at times the same vendor.So even though maruti might have japanese genes its not much use if everything is going to be made in India right?That levels the field out a bit.

Also Maruti has its own bugbears about quality too(countless reports of build quality problems in swifts)

OT:About wagon-r's i had an oppurtunity to be ferried about in a taxi wagon r a week back.Even though the car had run some 70K there was no rattling or plastic issues what so ever.Was quite impressed.

suhaas307 · 27th October 2010, 23:37

Good question.

While Maruti haven't really improved that much in terms of build quality since they began to make the 800, Tata has come a long way since the Indica! Initially, the Indica was crude and very unrefined. But look at it now! They've seriously improved, and I only see Tata cars getting better by the year.

Look at the Aria for example. The build quality is great, save for a few niggles regarding fit and finish. The Safari too, is solidly built and pretty well put together for an 'Indian' SUV.

But the reason as to why Marutis feel better built than Tatas lies in the fact that the engineers at Tata are still learning where as Marutis team of engineers are probably better trained at this IMO. Remember, tata started from scratch, but Maruti had the backing of the Japs. It could also boil down to the fact that Maruti started off making passenger cars in India much before Tata.

Give them some time, and I'm sure Tata would be up there!

crazycardude198 · 27th October 2010, 23:39

[quote=avishar;2121098]But i think the question here is both Maruti and Tata make there cars here in India,using at times the same vendor.So even though maruti might have japanese genes its not much use if everything is going to be made in India right?That levels the field out a bit.

Exactly. I see it this way. If it were not for the bad reputation of Tata quality I would have bought several Tata cars. Now here's the thing. I would not mind paying 20-30K extra for an Indica if it were actually built like my Wagon R for instance.

Dont you think its counter-productive to run a "desi" operation which can reduce quality perception levels, which in turn reinforce the negative stereotype??

IOW: Arent they shooting themselves in the foot by using cheap parts??!!

HammerHead · 27th October 2010, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycardude198

My question is this. Maruti have almost 80%+ localization for most of their cars. So do TATA. So then why are Maruti cars built better? Aren't both these car makers using Indian made parts?

The answer lies in 'pricing'. Check out what all you get by spending ~ 24K more for Indica Xeta GSL over Alto Lxi. And if you consider discounts, that price difference will come down to 10-15K!!

Having said that its the QC that spoils Tata's name more than the 'plastic/parts quality' used. If you talk about structural rigidity and build with that respect, IMO Tata is much better then similarly priced Maruti.

One more thing, have a look at original 1ltr Alto and compare its quality with the current Alto K10. You will know how a manufacturer keeps the price down and margins UP!!

da_lowrider · 28th October 2010, 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycardude198

Hi guys!
I had this question lurking about in my head. By now most of you would have heard about the Aria, as well as its niggles. Well, I've owned 3 Maruti Wagon R's ( dont ask me why) and TBH I have not had any major technical issues with the recent two. The first one was a little touchy though but the models after that were overall pretty good.

Hi, I don't know if I'm missing something here, but what 'niggles' are you talking about? I haven't been for a test drive but I haven't read anyone complain about any quality issues, and as far as I know deliveries haven't started, so I'm really confused with this question.

invidious · 28th October 2010, 02:16

Let's compare the Indica Vista to the Swift. I own a Swift. To be honest - the comfort is superior in the Vista than in the Swift. The quality of interiors is marginally better in the Swift but the Swift is no Fabia when it comes to ergonomics and finish. The Vistas also feel more solid. Does anyone know the crash ratings of the 2 cars? Of course - I am not comparing the old Indica - that was really badly designed.

gshanky · 28th October 2010, 02:20

But IMO a more pertinent question would be how come M&M were able to improve the quality of Scorpio and Bolero so much so that they stole the thunder of Sumo and Safari. The sales numbers speak for themselves.

I am just trying to prove that "desi attitude" is a myth in car manufacturing especially because TML is a multinational company and they cannot afford to loose any business due to "desi attitude". However it could be true that their vendors are not doing things right in the name of sticking to budget or whatever. My biggest gripe is that M&M also came out with un-refined bolero and scorpio but gradually improved the quality and now both are segment leaders.

I guess somewhere TML started focusing more on passenger cars like Indica, Manza, Nano, ARIA, etc. and did not have time for SUMO and Safari. But hopefully they can spare time now with upcoming safari refresh and hopefully a mark-3 for grande

sanagg1 · 28th October 2010, 07:09

My 2 paise

Generally speaking TATA cars are grossly ill treated due to their ownership lineage in commercial sector due to reasons pointed out by Hammerhead @post#10.

Use and abuse of TATA cars in variety of ways in real life scenario speaks volume about their structural build quality. Though not denying the fact that TATA still has to walk a long mile to make it into top league.

Cheers

S5157 · 28th October 2010, 09:19

I have owned four Maruti's so far. Maruti 800(1990), Maruti Esteem (1995), Wagonr(2000) and Sx4(2010). I still have the wagon r and SX4.

I can say Quality of Marutis are going down by a significant level.My SX4 started rattling and have A/c issues from 150 kms of ownership and Maruti is struggling to fix the issues. On the other side I had chance to drive a 2005 Indigo for several months and 2009 vista as well and I can vouch that Tata's are improving a lot.

27th October 2010, 21:38	#1
crazycardude198 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: HYDERABAD Posts: 87 Thanked: 25 Times	Quality Difference in Maruti vs Tata Hi guys! I had this question lurking about in my head. By now most of you would have heard about the Aria, as well as its niggles. Well, I've owned 3 Maruti Wagon R's ( dont ask me why) and TBH I have not had any major technical issues with the recent two. The first one was a little touchy though but the models after that were overall pretty good. My question is this. Maruti have almost 80%+ localization for most of their cars. So do TATA. So then why are Maruti cars built better? Arent both these car makers using Indian made parts?
	() Thanks

27th October 2010, 21:46	#2
typeOnegative Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vikhroli, Mumbai, India Posts: 1,503 Thanked: 27 Times	Well for one, Maruti has its Japanese genes. Secondly it has almost a 10 year headstart on the Tata Passenger Cars. Thirdly, Tata has its genes in the Truck segment. And our desi truck drivers are high on reliability and less on build.
	() Thanks

27th October 2010, 22:39	#4
valhallen.282 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 331 Thanked: 196 Times	Agreed if tata had launched the indica they have today 3 years ago they would have been spot on and the indica today as we know it would be a world better. So they have catching up to do. Secondly when maruti started they were a company building jap cars to sell here! So their base roots were jap. Similarly tata originally used to built the ckd of mercedes benz trucks. My dads driven a few and they were lovely! That was in the 80's. That apparently is where the truck building started. Though I'm not fully sure. And then they got down to passenger cars many many years later. And they are learning. The curve is steep and the climb hard but I think their diesels have the grunt and the mind power to reach the top of the slopes. They'll get there eventually. PS: just hope and pray the slope doesn't grow too much by the time they get there!
	() Thanks

27th October 2010, 23:16	#6
aroop BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Kolkata Posts: 128 Thanked: 23 Times	Having a Japanese parent introduced Maruti to the concept of quality management, a term unknown in the Indian auto industry in 1982. Most of the components are purchased from domestic vendors (so the 80% localization concept), but Maruti makes sure that defective items are not accepted. They have developed vendors like Sona Steering and Subros, which are big names now. These vendors, in turn have been forced to work the Suzuki way. (Souce of info: 'The Maruti story' by RC Bhargava) Tata, on the other hand has a more 'desi' way of working. They do not mind using components with slightly larger variance, and hence the end result as we see. But to their credit, they have kept costs low, which I guess was their largest focus. I remember reading somewhere that Ratan Tata wanted to make Indica the world's cheapest car, but could not do so, Hence Nano followed. My 2 cents.
	() Thanks

27th October 2010, 23:16	#7
avishar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: kolkata/bangalore,india Posts: 2,901 Thanked: 4,143 Times	But i think the question here is both Maruti and Tata make there cars here in India,using at times the same vendor.So even though maruti might have japanese genes its not much use if everything is going to be made in India right?That levels the field out a bit. Also Maruti has its own bugbears about quality too(countless reports of build quality problems in swifts) OT:About wagon-r's i had an oppurtunity to be ferried about in a taxi wagon r a week back.Even though the car had run some 70K there was no rattling or plastic issues what so ever.Was quite impressed.
	() Thanks

27th October 2010, 23:37	#8
suhaas307 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 8,830 Thanked: 12,255 Times	Good question. While Maruti haven't really improved that much in terms of build quality since they began to make the 800, Tata has come a long way since the Indica! Initially, the Indica was crude and very unrefined. But look at it now! They've seriously improved, and I only see Tata cars getting better by the year. Look at the Aria for example. The build quality is great, save for a few niggles regarding fit and finish. The Safari too, is solidly built and pretty well put together for an 'Indian' SUV. But the reason as to why Marutis feel better built than Tatas lies in the fact that the engineers at Tata are still learning where as Marutis team of engineers are probably better trained at this IMO. Remember, tata started from scratch, but Maruti had the backing of the Japs. It could also boil down to the fact that Maruti started off making passenger cars in India much before Tata. Give them some time, and I'm sure Tata would be up there!
	() Thanks

27th October 2010, 23:39	#9
crazycardude198 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: HYDERABAD Posts: 87 Thanked: 25 Times	[quote=avishar;2121098]But i think the question here is both Maruti and Tata make there cars here in India,using at times the same vendor.So even though maruti might have japanese genes its not much use if everything is going to be made in India right?That levels the field out a bit. Exactly. I see it this way. If it were not for the bad reputation of Tata quality I would have bought several Tata cars. Now here's the thing. I would not mind paying 20-30K extra for an Indica if it were actually built like my Wagon R for instance. Dont you think its counter-productive to run a "desi" operation which can reduce quality perception levels, which in turn reinforce the negative stereotype?? IOW: Arent they shooting themselves in the foot by using cheap parts??!!
	() Thanks

28th October 2010, 02:16	#12
invidious BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bombay Posts: 845 Thanked: 1,226 Times	Let's compare the Indica Vista to the Swift. I own a Swift. To be honest - the comfort is superior in the Vista than in the Swift. The quality of interiors is marginally better in the Swift but the Swift is no Fabia when it comes to ergonomics and finish. The Vistas also feel more solid. Does anyone know the crash ratings of the 2 cars? Of course - I am not comparing the old Indica - that was really badly designed.
	() Thanks

28th October 2010, 02:20	#13
gshanky BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Coimbatore / Bangalore / New York Posts: 717 Thanked: 13 Times	But IMO a more pertinent question would be how come M&M were able to improve the quality of Scorpio and Bolero so much so that they stole the thunder of Sumo and Safari. The sales numbers speak for themselves. I am just trying to prove that "desi attitude" is a myth in car manufacturing especially because TML is a multinational company and they cannot afford to loose any business due to "desi attitude". However it could be true that their vendors are not doing things right in the name of sticking to budget or whatever. My biggest gripe is that M&M also came out with un-refined bolero and scorpio but gradually improved the quality and now both are segment leaders. I guess somewhere TML started focusing more on passenger cars like Indica, Manza, Nano, ARIA, etc. and did not have time for SUMO and Safari. But hopefully they can spare time now with upcoming safari refresh and hopefully a mark-3 for grande
	() Thanks

28th October 2010, 07:09	#14
sanagg1 BHPian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: HIMALYAS Posts: 279 Thanked: 6 Times	My 2 paise Generally speaking TATA cars are grossly ill treated due to their ownership lineage in commercial sector due to reasons pointed out by Hammerhead @post#10. Use and abuse of TATA cars in variety of ways in real life scenario speaks volume about their structural build quality. Though not denying the fact that TATA still has to walk a long mile to make it into top league. Cheers
	() Thanks

28th October 2010, 09:19	#15
S5157 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Muvattupuzha, K Posts: 305 Thanked: 191 Times	I have owned four Maruti's so far. Maruti 800(1990), Maruti Esteem (1995), Wagonr(2000) and Sx4(2010). I still have the wagon r and SX4. I can say Quality of Marutis are going down by a significant level.My SX4 started rattling and have A/c issues from 150 kms of ownership and Maruti is struggling to fix the issues. On the other side I had chance to drive a 2005 Indigo for several months and 2009 vista as well and I can vouch that Tata's are improving a lot.
	() Thanks