[ajmat]

Note from Mod

With the current tempers, we are getting rather tempted to close/ move the thread out. cool down!

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by ananthkamath

WE INDIANS DONT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT TUNING TO HAVE SECRETS. Simple formula, get more air into the engine, time it properly & do the fueling properly. THERE ARE NO SECRETS.

Very well said Ananth. This whole art of tuning is turning into some kind of vortex with too many secrets we as end customers are told to stay away from.

Originally Posted by chetanhanda

if u are going to completely change the block,crank piston,head etc will it be a Indian D15 Vtec anymore ?

This is exactly my argument too. If we are to change most of the parts on the engine, it would no longer remain the Indian D15. Also, like I mentioned earlier are our tuner's qualified enough to make out EACH AND EVERY difference from the Thai spec to the Indian spec? Because a couple of tuners abroad sure as hell haven't seen our engine and they say they cannot say a word until they do so.

[Ford Rocam]

I really dont know whats the big deal on "Tuners Secret" is? Most of the information are available on net, its ain't secret as some people/tuners think & they don't give any details just to make some "moolah" out of it. Its "How its Done" is more important, rather than saying it can be done.& it has been done & i am not talking about specs i am talking about procedure involved.Indian Motorsports industry lacks Professionalism in their work. once we have that then we are gonna see more "Dyno Graphs" & Speedrun results do Talking.

[ajmat]

Folks

This is like school - mine is bigger than yours but I won't show you

If you want to keep things a secret, don't talk about it in the forum. The forum is for sharing info and achievements not to tease people unless you are stoking them up to ultimately tell them.

End of the day, very few people on the forum like Psycho, Ford Rocam etc have actually attempted something and in some cases succeeded. There have been failures but we learn fast from them. Again the results/ observations of others etc have done the talking.

Those of you with "secrets", let them remain secrets within you until you have something to demonstrate

[ron_9191]

U better take a baleno out to the track mate... see the Jap reliability for yourself.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by ron_9191

U better take a baleno out to the track mate...

Been there done that.

[ananthkamath]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Very well said Ananth. This whole art of tuning is turning into some kind of vortex with too many secrets we as end customers are told to stay away from.

Secrets exist only in racing that's run on the ragged edge. And in India we are nowhere close to that right now.

There was however a time in Indian racing history when secrets were pretty closely guarded, and that was during the sholavaram days.....man I wish this series turns into that....the secrets were so close that even I haven't seen the 80's GP winner's Fiat 1100 cylinder head even though the winner happens to be my mentor.....thats about 15 years of development on ONE part!!

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by ananth

There was however a time in Indian racing history when secrets were pretty closely guarded

Some secrets still are. Some of the old timers just love working this way.

[Psycho]

Hmmm... a few questions:

Why doesnt microsoft give out their source code?

Why dont all the manufaturers let you know of all the specs on your stock cars?

Why is it do you belive you know what Nismo runs on their skylines but are unable to believe what someone says? (they are just as unknown as Nismo)

Why is it that some one's knowledge suddenly becomes a secret?

Because they have spent time to tinker understand and learn, not all bolt on's are a sure fire way to have a good car there are a million add on's out there and some work better than others and if someone knows the right combination it would become a closely gaurded approach.

What is this about old timers? I do know of even the current group of people who love to work this way and they still have my respect. It becomes a challenge to discover what else could have been done to help improve the performance beyond a certain point. (Like tinkering around with a rubik cube trying to solve it faster)

"There is always a better way".

So let us leave this discussion aside and get back to the orignal topic.

[kick.throttle]

perfectly said Psycho

Originally Posted by Psycho

Hmmm... a few questions:

Why doesnt microsoft give out their source code?

Why dont all the manufaturers let you know of all the specs on your stock cars?

Why is it do you belive you know what Nismo runs on their skylines but are unable to believe what someone says? (they are just as unknown as Nismo)

Why is it that some one's knowledge suddenly becomes a secret?

Because they have spent time to tinker understand and learn, not all bolt on's are a sure fire way to have a good car there are a million add on's out there and some work better than others and if someone knows the right combination it would become a closely gaurded approach.

What is this about old timers? I do know of even the current group of people who love to work this way and they still have my respect. It becomes a challenge to discover what else could have been done to help improve the performance beyond a certain point. (Like tinkering around with a rubik cube trying to solve it faster)

"There is always a better way".

So let us leave this discussion aside and get back to the orignal topic.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by psycho

Why dont all the manufaturers let you know of all the specs on your stock cars?

Because we end customers don't ask for them? That said, I could get you any spec of any Maruti vehicle you want . So its not some really close guarded secret, but mostly because we have no use from it. Turbosam could get you detailed info on Fiats.

What is this about old timers?

Since this is in direct response to my post, I was just quoting an example of someone I know who closely guarded all the projects they worked on. And I certainly haven't seen this trend followed to utmost seriousness off lately. News leaks around from somewhere or the other.

What I would like to know is, don't the end users need to know what is being put or running in their car? Or do we have to blindly trust what a tuner has to say and just pay him the moolah and take delivery of the car once the work is done?

[Harrie]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

What I would like to know is, don't the end users need to know what is being put or running in their car? Or do we have to blindly trust what a tuner has to say and just pay him the moolah and take delivery of the car once the work is done?

I would again think of it like this. Suppose I tell you I did some thing in some different way to produce the end result and you went to a second tuner and told him that????

I wouldnt ask my tuner what he does. I havent asked till date. Or maybe I havent prodded him till date. His work speaks for itself and I am happy.

Afterall I am paying only for his service. Not for him to divulge his secrets of the trade. Tuners do have a business to run at the end of the day.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by Harrie

I would again think of it like this. Suppose I tell you I did some thing in some different way to produce the end result and you went to a second tuner and told him that????

Just knowing the trick will not give you the same power. Just in case like knowing how one ports his head doesn't mean some other tuner can achieve the same level of porting as well. If that is the case our tuners would have been competing with tuners world wide. I know a lot of them who have access to some of the best modded engines in the world got from abroad. Why can't they see this and replicate them?

I wouldnt ask my tuner what he does. I havent asked till date. Or maybe I havent prodded him till date. His work speaks for itself and I am happy.

The advantages of having a good tuner by your side. What for those unlucky ones?

I know a tuner in Delhi who has played havoc with others cars. Is it wrong asking what a surbo or whatever he puts does to the car? Certainly not.

Tuners do have a business to run at the end of the day.

All this sounds fine Harrie. I know a lot of people including myself who would like to understand what mods do what to your car. Isn't that what we all come here for? To gain knowledge and understand stuff. If not then our tuners shouldn't even open their mouths here and try to stop other people from making money by conning people. Because at the end of the end its someone else's business too isn't it? If someone is making a quick buck installing turbo's in a pathetic way blowing engines, why don't we all keep quite and see him earn money?

Afterall I am paying only for his service. Not for him to divulge his secrets of the trade.

And what if the service is not reliable and you feel the need to switch to someone else? How do you expect someone else to work on your car when your tuner doesn't tell you what you are running or when you are totally unaware what to tell your the other tuner what your car is running. Where do you as an end customer go then?

I am talking all this from personal experience. I feel I was an idiot to do some mods I was not totally aware of or hadn't done my homework on. Had I known the extent of mods that were being carried on my car and how unreliable it might have turned out I would have never gone for them. Today I am contemplating a 3rd engine rebuild on my race engine. And now I am thinking about selling my car with everything stock to just get rid of the bad memories I have had to go through. I know how it feels, specially when you love your car as much as I do. Do you know why we respect Sideways and Ford Rocam so much? It is because of their knowledge. The amount of hard work they have put in to understand how what works.

And my would be tuner tells me I was foolish to do whatever I did with my car while my earlier tuner thinks he had everything planned out. So whose word am I supposed to take? You know I am that kind of a guy who believes people a lot.

Also I really don't understand what "secrets" we are talking about here. The info we are talking about is all over the web. All you have to do is search on the right sites. We Indians are unaware or are lazy to do some research before plunging into stuff like this.

[Harrie]

What I am trying to tell you is to look before you leap. Like as in do all the research possible before trying out something. Because we dont have cash to burn. End of the day every little penny counts.

If its the fear of ending up at a bad tuner, I am sure team-bhp can point you in the right way.

Also I think when you are not in a position to spend huge money on builds day in and day out, it will be wise if you can stick to the beaten path. No point trying to be a pioneer when one mistake can leave you without a ride for 6 months.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

I know a lot of them who have access to some of the best modded engines in the world got from abroad. Why can't they see this and replicate them?

Because they don't want to, don't have the resources to, or can't

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

If not then our tuners shouldn't even open their mouths here and try to stop other people from making money by conning people. Because at the end of the end its someone else's business too isn't it? If someone is making a quick buck installing turbo's in a pathetic way blowing engines, why don't we all keep quite and see him earn money?

Seems like you are referring to Nivvit Bhasin. No one is asking him what he does, they're asking him to STOP. It's your money, if you don't want to go to someone, don't. The tuner doesn't ask you how you earned the money to go to him.

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

I am talking all this from personal experience. I feel I was an idiot to do some mods I was not totally aware of or hadn't done my homework on.

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Also I really don't understand what "secrets" we are talking about here. The info we are talking about is all over the web. All you have to do is search on the right sites. We Indians are unaware or are lazy to do some research before plunging into stuff like this.

The onus is on the end user to do the research. If you buy an application that does not run with your machine, it is not the developers fault. As you have yourself said, the information is all over the web. If the user is too lazy, his problem.

Ananth, I'd appreciate you not calling me names on an open forum. I've done enough work with my own hands, including rebuilding my own engine and restoring a car, to know what I talk about. I have never questioned your credentials, and I don't see the need for you to question mine.