[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by ananthkamath

Was it like free advertising for the sponsors or something like that?

Free advertising ?!?!

First of all, im suprised that having to put a few sponsors stickers on is being made such an issue.

I can totally understand the irritation caused by the haphazard enforcement of the sticker rule, but to complain about having to put sponsors stickers on your car?

If a sponsor pays 5lacs (hypothetical figure) for an event, they want maximum visibility.
They can put up as many banners and hoardings as they want in the location, but everyone is taking pictures of the CARS! (pit babes would work too, but there were none.)

Naturally, a sponsor would be willing to pay way more money to get way more people looking at their brand.
If you dont allow sponsors stickers on cars, then the sponsor will only be willing to pay about, lets say - 3lacs.

Where is the other 2 lacs needed for the event going to come from?? > From the competitors pockets!!!

Its incredibly hard to get sponsors for automobile related events in India. We should be thanking the sponsors, and personally i would gladly slap their stickers on my car (somewhere where it wont leave a mark ) because i know that it is probably saving me (at the very least) 2-5k extra as a the participation fee -- and at the worst, there would be no event!


Also, you CANNOT compare grassroots motorsports events in the USA with the speedrun. In the USA all you need is a car forum, a parking lot and a few cones. They also have the infrastructure (if its drag racing you are talking about). Stands in place, proper timing equipment in place, safety taken care of, discipline understood (no morons doing donuts in the parking area), etc. In india it is very very different, and the event INCLUDES the "infrastructure".

The sponsors are the guys who are making this possible. Without them, there would be no speedrun.

Also, as much as ACI is getting bashed for terrible organization, i still respect them for :
1. Taking the initiative to host something like this. We've seen people talk in the past, but DOING is a whole different ballgame.
2. Trying to make improvements over the last year's events (even if not too tangible)
3. TAKING THE INITIATIVE TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS - because lord knows if they hadn't, we would all still be sitting around talking air, and nothing like this would happen for years to come.

Its incredibly hard to organize an event than involves so many people, rules, cars, government, safety, and equipment. Not to mention, food, drink, seating (oops), crowd control, ...the list goes on.

If you want to make motorsport in this country better, stop complaining about the little things. Help improve things, and understand that IT IS NOT EASY. Stop being part of the problem, become part of the solution.

cya
R

[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by ajmat

Frankly it is a conflict of interest when the sponsor is also a participant.

Well, correct me if i am wrong, but from my understanding of the event through this thread, there were no allegations of "fixed" results, or any favouritism that affected results. (Besides neville's RS's "phantom bigger turbo" which is an interesting discussion here).

A few "jump starts" sure, a few missing stickers being harassed -- yes, preferential treatment for GS's fun-runs; sure, but where are the allegations of "match fixing" coming from??

Also, they had big signboards with the timings being displayed after each run right? (though that didnt include RT did it?)

cya
R

[ananthkamath]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

I can totally understand the irritation caused by the haphazard enforcement of the sticker rule, but to complain about having to put sponsors stickers on your car?

Talk about misunderstanding. The real issue is that people were forced to put stickers with a right of refusal to participate. Now when I pay my own entry fee, arrange for transporting the car and myself from 1500 km away, arrange for my own stay and food, and on top of this am treated like $hit and subjected to bias, NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO FORCE A STICKER ON MY CAR AND DENY PARTICIPATION.

On the other hand, if the said sponsor came to me and said "We would like to put our sticker on your car, are you willing to do so", maybe I would consider it.

Originally Posted by Rehaan

If a sponsor pays 5 lacs (hypothetical figure) for an event, they want maximum visibility.
If you dont allow sponsors stickers on cars, then the sponsor will only be willing to pay about, lets say - 3lacs.

There is absolutely NOTHING to validate or back up this ridiculous calculation. The promise of Autocar to the sponsors on the contrary is what has brought about this sorry practice.

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Its incredibly hard to get sponsors for automobile related events in India. We should be thanking the sponsors, and personally i would gladly slap their stickers on my car (somewhere where it wont leave a mark ) because i know that it is probably saving me (at the very least) 2-5k extra as a the participation fee -- and at the worst, there would be no event!

No doubt about any of this, I would do the same thing BUT if the sponsor asked me nicely.

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Also, you CANNOT compare grassroots motorsports events in the USA with the speedrun. In the USA all you need is a car forum, a parking lot and a few cones.

And what did you think takes care of the insurance, ambulance and fire personnel mandatory at each of these events? Even a small secluded lot needs to be insured for a minimum of $1.5 million on the day of the event for the time of the event depending on location. No one finds a random parking lot and sets up an autocross event. Everyone present could go to jail for doing exactly that. The event has to be precisely started and finished at the stipulated time. Co-operation from local law enforcement has to be sought. All of this doesnt come free either. Living in the US, you should know better than that.

And YET, YET, there is not a SINGLE sponsor asking you to slap on his sticker on your car for free at any of these events. If you disagree go to a local SCCA auto-x and see how things are done there.

Originally Posted by Rehaan

The sponsors are the guys who are making this possible. Without them, there would be no speedrun.

Without a doubt. But hey, the participants aren't begging the sponsors to come and pay money to Autocar so they can hold an event. The sponsors figure out how much advertising mileage they can get out of it and budget the money out for it. Its not for love of the sport, and even if it is, that's cause the money involved is peanuts for the sponsor anyway. No one is stupid, you know, specially corporates aren't last time I checked.

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Also, as much as ACI is getting bashed for terrible organization, i still respect them for :..............
Its incredibly hard to organize an event than involves so many people, rules, cars, government, safety, and equipment. Not to mention, food, drink, seating (oops), crowd control, ...the list goes on.

Absolutely. But these slip-ups are way, way worse than what happened in the previous years. Not knowing how to control crowds is one thing, deliberately showing bias for some participants or main bankroller is quite another.

Originally Posted by Rehaan

If you want to make motorsport in this country better, stop complaining about the little things. Help improve things, and understand that IT IS NOT EASY. Stop being part of the problem, become part of the solution.

I cannot fathom how I am part of the problem, nor how I am complaining. Please measure your words carefully before you say them. I am merely speaking out on behalf of enthusiasts who don't agree with what has happened.
If you do want to get personal, I doubt you have done anything for the cause of the sport either.

[Shan2nu]

If a sponsor pays 5lacs (hypothetical figure) for an event, they want maximum visibility.
They can put up as many banners and hoardings as they want in the location, but everyone is taking pictures of the CARS! (pit babes would work too, but there were none.)

Naturally, a sponsor would be willing to pay way more money to get way more people looking at their brand.
If you dont allow sponsors stickers on cars, then the sponsor will only be willing to pay about, lets say - 3lacs.

Where is the other 2 lacs needed for the event going to come from?? > From the competitors pockets!!!

Nobody is against the stickers. If i was running my car in the speedrun, i would have definately used them but i feel the participants should have been given the right to choose whether to use them or not. .

For Eg : People who live in colonies are usually provided with stickers that they are supposed to stick on the windshield, without which their cars won't be allowed inside. But then, the person buying a flat in the colony would have signed an agreement saying that he's well aware of the rules/regulations and has no issues following them.

If the SR form had the sticker rule mentioned on it, the participants can't complain once they have signed it.

So until someone scans the form and posts it here, there isn't going to be an end to this discussion.

Shan2nu

[ananthkamath]

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

So until someone scans the form and posts it here, there isn't going to be an end to this discussion.

Putting it into the rules doesnt make it ok for Autocar to do whatever they want. Again, I'm against the forcing of sponsor stickers on people's cars, not against the sponsor requesting the competitors during the drivers briefing to run them.

[viper]

Originally Posted by ananthkamath

Putting it into the rules doesnt make it ok for Autocar to do whatever they want. Again, I'm against the forcing of sponsor stickers on people's cars, not against the sponsor requesting the competitors during the drivers briefing to run them.

Ananth/Rehaan/Shan2nu - Guys pl chill. The event is over, none of you participated and the guys who did not want to put the stickers have done their bit via complaining voicing their opinion. Neither of you guys were their this year as either participants or spectators so take this offline if you wanna continue debating.

Lets stick to the topic please.

Viper

[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by ananthkamath

Talk about misunderstanding. The real issue is that people were forced to put stickers with a right of refusal to participate. Now when I pay my own entry fee, arrange for transporting the car and myself from 1500 km away,......

Indeed a misunderstanding.
My point was that they were subsidizing your enterance cost greatly. They make the rules for this event. Its one of the rules. Why should whether this is how it is usually done in the rest of the world or not matter in this case? -- ive explained my logic below.

Originally Posted by ananthkamath

There is absolutely NOTHING to validate or back up this ridiculous calculation.

Ananth, how do you think cost of advertising is calculated?
THE main factor is viewership (given that the target market in this situation is being constantly reached).
Why would a company pay 500 times as much to advertise during the world cup as opposed to a test match ? Purely based on how many people will see the ad!
Less viewership = less money; more viewers = more money.
I shouldn't even need to back up this "ridiculous calculation".

You put stickers on cars (which will be focussed on, pictures will be taken, posted all over the web etc etc) == more viewership.
No stickers on cars == less viewership.

Originally Posted by ananthkamath

And what did you think takes care of the insurance, ambulance and fire personnel mandatory at each of these events? Even a small secluded lot needs to be insured for a minimum of $1.5 million on the day of the event for the time of the event depending on location. No one finds a random parking lot and sets up an autocross event.

Ok agreed. Maybe its not as easy as finding an open parking spot, however, as i said -- two things are VERY different between the USA and india :
1. Motorsport related infrastructure (with SO many things already taken care of - you can focus more on organizing the EVENT itself, not the facilities)
2. Sponsors willing to put money into motorsports (reason : not as high a viewership as cricket etc)

Indian sponsors need that "encouragement" (to invest their money in motorsports) and hence things are different here to facilitate that.

Originally Posted by ananthkamath

I cannot fathom how I am part of the problem, nor how I am complaining. Please measure your words carefully before you say them. I am merely speaking out on behalf of enthusiasts who don't agree with what has happened.
If you do want to get personal, I doubt you have done anything for the cause of the sport either.

That was not directed at you in specific Ananth, and was most definitely not said in the tone you might have read it in. I have hopes to see you (specifically) play a big part in the scene here when the time comes. I respect your technical knowledge, and hope to see it being put to good use

What i meant by that was that participants need to understand its not easy, im sure a lot of them made managing an event like that harder than it needed to be by : trying to / sneaking into areas without the required passes (i myself am guilty of this once upon a time), arguing about things that could have just been dealt with after the event, doing "stunts" in the parking lot outside etc etc. Instead, some constructive criticism (hopefully i contributed a tiny bit here by starting a poll on speed run entry fee in 2005 :P), enthusiasm, appreciation where deserved (even though the overall event was a rubbish), etc etc.

cya
R

[Ford Rocam]

Originally Posted by viper

Ananth/Rehaan/Shan2nu - Guys pl chill. The event is over, none of you participated and the guys who did not want to put the stickers have done their bit via complaining voicing their opinion. Neither of you guys were their this year as either participants or spectators so take this offline if you wanna continue debating.

Lets stick to the topic please.

Viper

Jignesh bhai, so what if they did not participate ? so what if they were not spectators ? we all have rights to express the right concern cause we all are motorsport enthusiast. We all built cars with our money, effort, time & what not and at the time of run we are told to put their stickers & often treated like a bunch of morons ! for what ???? just because they are sponsors ? ACI is an event organizer & we are participants they didn't sponsor the participants with money they put in to their build, one of their main sponsors B.P.C.l which is there every year they don't sponsor fuel for the participants either. They can put boardings / banner etc etc of the sponsors but forcing to put their stickers on participants cars is not acceptable & the decision should be left on the owner himself. or unless the car is sponsored by "X" company.

[viper]

Originally Posted by Ford Rocam

Jignesh bhai, so what if they did not participate ? so what if they were not spectators ? we all have rights to express the right concern cause we all are motorsport enthusiast.

Jitu,

Yes you do have rights but not in this thread. Feel free to open another thread arguing or expressing your guts out.

This thread is about the Speed Run 2008, results, pictures, videos and experiences of those present only period.

I am trying to diffuse a situation which I dont think you are interested in.

Viper


Edit - I had quoted 3 names. you are welcome to pass your comments in the capacity of a participant/spectator

[SohailPistawala]

To Mods : Great Job once again hatss Off!! viper Bhai your Prayer is answered!!

Edit: Sorry to put this but... now this thread will turn into Moshpit LOLS

[viper]

Originally Posted by SohailPistawala

To Mods : Great Job once again hatss Off!! viper Bhai your Prayer is answered!!

Hey,

Yes and I am out of here as I have no interest in arguing or discussing what's over and done with. IMO no point crying over spilt milk, Whats happened has happened and cannot be undone.

Viper

[Ford Rocam]

Originally Posted by viper

Jitu,

Yes you do have rights but not in this thread. Feel free to open another thread arguing or expressing your guts out.

Chalo, we now have a new thread.

Originally Posted by viper

I am trying to diffuse a situation which I dont think you are interested in.

Viper

I don't have control over your thinking but we are here to talk...right champ?

[Rehaan]

Okay guys, I have split the posts discussing the sponsors / advertising and organization into a new thread here so that the original thread is "on topic".

cya
R

[Maverick1977]

Sorry but I couldn’t resist myself from barging into this discussion. However would be glad if some 1 answers my question:
Is this discussion (postmortem) going to help any one or change anything?

Addendum - One should be fair to Autocar that they did allow participants to run even if they didn’t have stickers on their cars. But I am sure if this had been noticed by one of their sponsors they will not take it nicely.

[viper]

Originally Posted by Ford Rocam

I don't have control over your thinking but we are here to talk...right champ?

Agreed Not you or anybody does. I am not here to talk on matters that are over if you are then do so by all means. If anyone has any positive concrete suggestions and are willing to shoot of emails/letters to the organizers on how to improve the same for next year then I am game to a discussion on that only.

Viper