[DicKy]

VW finally overtakes Toyota in global sales buoyant on strong China sales, while Toyota struggles with slowing U.S. sales.

G.M sales figures will be published next week, and if it doesn't overtake the VW numbers, it will be the first time VW becomes the number one selling automaker.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-38793253

https://www.ft.com/content/8c3471f8-...c-082c54a7f539



Personally feel its good for Toyota, as they have traditionally not chased the volumes figure, instead looking at profitability.

Especially since they are trying to rejuvenate the brands and making the company adaptive to the future trends.

Have to look if VW maintains the sales figures as this time in China there was strong demand to purchase vehicles at the end of the last year before the expected expiration of tax breaks on small cars, though it has since been extended to 2017 by the Chinese authorities.

[Coolman]

Folks,

If car numbers are anything to go by, then it all looks so simple.

When you ask what numbers and I say "number of cars sold" OR "number of cars dispatched", it still makes sense.

What is earth-shattering then?

• May be when each manufacturer plays with the numbers by formulating their own rules and justifications, all in the quest for that coveted "numero uno" position, and the means that they devise to achieve that target, and then they are bestowed with awards, one after the other, year after year, that to me is earth-shattering! No offense meant, please!

Here's this article published in Forbes, an article that gets into the nitty-gritties of who is the "number one automaker of the world" in 2016 and possibly the years before!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelsc.../#50582bbd20ba

Excerpts from the article:

It's Official: Volkswagen World's Largest Automaker 2016. Or Maybe Toyota

...

This will be a long story, full of numbers. If your eyes glaze over already, I will let you go with the news that Volkswagen is finally ahead of Toyota -- if you believe the published numbers. If you share my perverse fetish for car counting, and if you read the rest of the story, expect your beliefs to be shaken.

...

How important is an automaker’s place on the charts? It depends on who you ask.

...

There is an OICA, there is an NCAP and a few others! Doesn't look like it is bothering the automakers!

At this point, with the kind of revelations, I guess it would be fair to say "Hathi Ke Dant Khane Ke Aur Dikhane Ke Aur" (Hindi to English translation - Elephant has two sets of teeth - one to show off and the other to chew with), in summary - what is obvious may not be the truth!

Should we even yearn for healthy competition?


Note: If this doesn't merit a separate topic, please help merge this into a related one!

Thanks,
C_

[Jeroen]

Not sure what the fuss is all about. Looking at all those numbers whatever errors the author claims there are, it is couple of hundred thousand cars. On a total of approximately 10 million, so a few percent, 5% max. Nothing to get exited about I would think, but this guy just rants on.

I’m sure the numbers might be relevant for those working at those auto-manufactures, but I’m doubtful as to the value to the consumer of any of it. Trivia at best.

Jeroen

[aravind.anand]

Hmmmm, and in other news, we are experiencing one of the hottest winters in history... Coincidence? I think not!

Good for VW. But for the betterment of our planet, I hope VW sales go down by a significant amount, which would serve as a reminder for all the car manufacturers out there, on what would happen if you cheat a trustful customer.

[dark.knight]

As a business, counting numbers and ensuring stock is cleared is important. Other than that there is little to no substance in these figures from the consumer end. We already know the great charade that happened in the "emissions scandal", the only purpose it served was the removal of then CEO Martin Winterkorn who took on the wrong enemy - Ferdinand Piech who has been deeply entrenched and owns many aspects of the entire group, and of course Angela Merkel will sell out and downplay any global issue for the monetary enhancement of the corporate entities. Let me post an except of a link I'll be giving below :

“For Piëch what is important is power, not money. I don’t know what he did or how he did it, but he is the big winner of all this and that for me tells its own tale,” says another former senior executive.

Following the scandal Winterkorn and his loyalists fell like 9 pins after him, and now we have VW saying that it "voluntarily" admitted about the software rig back in September '15, guess people have a short memory eh. Maybe its all wrong but its a theory worth its weight.

The publications must also mention that VWAG, is, if at all it is, the largest car-manufacturer on earth, not VW. The group is far too large involving every range from entry-level VW Up! to a luxury Bentley, also Scania & MAN, the truck makers are likely, included in the sales figures. GM & VW have this unique advantage of being the mother brand to several brands (more than 10) and thus their high rankings in sales.

https://www.ft.com/content/fe07b240-...d-efcdc3c11c89

[GTO]

So much for the emission scandal denting their sales! I am honestly surprised at the sheer volumes.

VW's reputation definitely took a big beating, but it's obvious that consumers are willing to look past that for a good car. Toyota's sales didn't suffer in the longer-term after the unintended acceleration scandal, and neither did GM's after the ignition problem which caused so many deaths.

VW is damn strong in Europe & China. But they'll remain weak in the USA - the largest car market in the world. Just imagine what a lead VW would have over Toyota if it had made the right decisions & investments in USA.

[Maky]

Originally Posted by GTO

So much for the emission scandal denting their sales! I am honestly surprised at the sheer volumes.

VW's reputation definitely took a big beating, but it's obvious that consumers are willing to look past that for a good car. Toyota's sales didn't suffer in the longer-term after the unintended acceleration scandal, and neither did GM's after the ignition problem which caused so many deaths.

VW is damn strong in Europe & China. But they'll remain weak in the USA - the largest car market in the world. Just imagine what a lead VW would have over Toyota if it had made the right decisions & investments in USA.

I too found this very surprising.
Interestingly back in the day Audi did suffer in sales in the US after their 'unintended acceleration' scandal. This time around VW came out largely unscathed after their own scandal.

Perhaps modern buyers are less morally inclined : P.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Maky

Interestingly back in the day Audi did suffer in sales in the US after their 'unintended acceleration' scandal.

Hahaha! Thanks for reminding. Ironically, that entire scandal was FAKE, but Audi handled it very poorly. Sadly, CBS also staged a fake demonstration.

For BHPians who want to know more about it - full article:

Let’s set the scene: it’s 1984, and Audi sales had shot up 48 percent on the strength of their new aerodynamic 5000, the latest hot weapon in the perpetually-escalating suburban driveway status war. It was a stunning slick piece, and Audi was on a roll.

Suddenly, the war turned bloody. Moms in runaway Audi 5000’s were mowing down their little kids in the driveway and pinning granny against the far garage wall with the four-ringed front of the Audi.

This had never happened with the Olds Cutlass Supreme Brougham Coupe, the previous “hot” suburban car Mom traded in for her Audi. The German car certainly felt different. Unlike the Olds’ wide push-bar brake pedal – that some Americans still operated with their left feet – the Audi had that weird, small brake pedal, set kinda’ close to the gas pedal.

In 1989, after three years of studying the blatantly obvious, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued their report on Audi’s “sudden unintended acceleration problem.” NHTA’s findings fully exonerated Audi and some other implicated foreign makes”.

[V.Narayan]

Let's wait and see what the net profit after tax turn out to be in 2016 for the two auto makers. As the old adage goes "Revenue is Vanity, Profit is Sanity and Cash Flow is Reality". What counts is who is first in net profits and who has the stronger balance sheet. Here I assume both are comparable on the count of satisfied customers. For 2016 Toyota estimates a net profit of $3.88bn based on company filings. Not sure about VW's figures; in 2015 VW had a loss of Euro 1.58bn.

[libranof1987]

The numbers for GM are in.

General Motors sold 10 million cars in a year for the first time in its century-plus history.

Strong sales in China more than made up for slower sales in the United States. The milestone led GM, the largest American automaker, to record profit.

GM was in third place among world automakers, behind Volkswagen (VLKAF), which sold 10.3 million cars, and Toyota (TM), which sold 10.2 million.

One particular worrying statement is this,

China is now GM's largest market. Sales growth there lifted it to volume it never achieved when it was the world's biggest automaker. GM recorded its fourth straight year of record sales even as U.S. sales fell slightly, the first decline in GM's home market since 2009.

The stronger the Chinese market grows for GM, more will GM tailor their products in the subcontinent for them. As a result, we continue to get Sail and Enjoy, rather than the American products.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/07/news...its/index.html

[volkman10]

It's Official- Volkswagen Is World's Largest Automaker In 2016... but with a confusion!

This year, the World’s Largest Automaker is whichever of the two you want it to be. Volkswagen has beaten Toyota. Or maybe not.

If we want to crown the World’s Largest Automaker according to the official OICA rulebook, then we need to rank them by production. That brings a problem: Toyota publishes monthly production statistics, Volkswagen does not. Volkswagen publishes “deliveries

Link

[libranof1987]

We have a surprise entry for YTD sales.

The alliance of Nissan-Renault-Mitsubishi has sold the most cars in 2017; VW is second and Toyota at third

Volkswagen has been dethroned.

The German group sold fewer vehicles in the first six months of the year than a rival alliance anchored by Renault (RNLSY) and Nissan (NSANY).

It's the first time the coalition of French and Japanese automakers, which includes new member Mitsubishi, has topped the global sales ranking.

The Renault-Nissan alliance announced Friday that it sold 5,268,079 vehicles in the first half of the year.

That beats the 5,155,591 sales posted by Volkswagen over the same period as well as Toyota's third place effort of 5,129,000.

I assume they are talking about Mitsubishi when they say this:

The Japanese brand, which counts the U.S. and China as its top markets, contributed nearly 500,000 sales to the group's total.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/28/news...gen/index.html