[Technocrat]

Looks like VW has found itself in another scandal for 2018

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Volkswagen’s (VOWG_p.DE) supervisory board called for an immediate inquiry into who commissioned tests in which monkeys were exposed to toxic diesel fumes, while the German government said such studies were unjustifiable.

“I will do everything possible to ensure that this matter is investigated in detail,” Volkswagen supervisory board Chairman Hans Dieter Poetsch said in a statement on Monday.

“Whoever is responsible for this must of course be held accountable,” Poetsch said in response to a New York Times report on Friday that German carmakers had used an organization called European Research Group on Environment and Health in the Transport Sector (EUGT) to commission the tests.

The study, conducted in 2014, was designed to defend diesel following revelations that the fuel’s exhaust fumes were carcinogenic, the newspaper reported.

Source

[GTO]

Thanks for sharing, Technocrat! Moving post to new thread.

Here's an excellent article from NYTimes.com.

In 2014, as evidence mounted about the harmful effects of diesel exhaust on human health, scientists in an Albuquerque laboratory conducted an unusual experiment: Ten monkeys squatted in airtight chambers, watching cartoons for entertainment as they inhaled fumes from a diesel Volkswagen Beetle.

[libranof1987]

While this is a horrible low, why is it surprising? This practice, of using certain animals for tests, has been in use for decades, if not centuries. Instead of injecting/feeding animals, this involves contaminating the air they breathe. The end goal however, of proving diesel isn't bad, of course is nowhere as noble, as concluding the effectiveness of a medicine.

Here's an interesting fact about the body that conducted these tests:

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, said there was an urgent need for the company to reveal the true extent of the experiments, which were commissioned by the European Research Group of Environment and Health in the Transport Sector (EUGT), a body funded by Volkswagen, Daimler and BMW.

results presented to managers at BMW, Daimler and VW, all of whom belonged to the EUGT, a car lobby group, which has since been disbanded.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ns-and-monkeys

BMW and Daimler will be working over-time to steer very clear of this fall-out!

[DrANTO]

If you wish to learn more about the volkswagen dieselgate scandal, here is an excellent documentary on Netflix. The first episode of "Dirty money" series is based on the dieselgate saga and the efforts by volkswagen to hide it from the regulators and public. The episode name is "Hard Nox" and it's worth a watch. The above mentioned experiment on monkeys and the deep immorality of these giant corporations are exposed in this documentary.I watched it on Netflix today morning and if you like detailed automotive industry documentaries (like "A faster horse"), you will definitely enjoy it.

https://www.netflix.com/in/title/80118100

picture source : google images

[McLaren Rulez]

You'd think someone in the company would have seen the problem with a bunch of Germans using chambers filled with poisonous gas in the name of science...

[selfdrive]

Is this not an extension of them using emmisiongate to pollute the environment anyway? Just that instead of airtight chambers, they decided to pollute the entire planet.

If they were an environment (or even socially) conscious corporate organisation, they would be moving ahead in the race toward environmentally sustainable engines. Or at least sacrifice performance at the altar of the environment.

[fiat_tarun]

Originally Posted by DrANTO

If you wish to learn more about the volkswagen dieselgate scandal, here is an excellent documentary on Netflix. ...

I saw this the other day and it really is an eye opener on how far back the whole 'Dieselgate' saga goes. The extent VW went to try and cover this up is mind boggling to say the least ! For instance, when the authorities gave VW a change to fix this issue (before it was made public), they recalled cars and tried to install an improved version of the cheat software !!

This morning I came across an article that says tests were also carried out on humans
http://europe.autonews.com/article/2...ns-report-says

[SmartCat]

VW could have avoided all the bad press by importing monkeys from temple towns of India. Those poor animals have been exposed to diesel fumes from tourist buses and vans everyday - for so many years now.

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

You'd think someone in the company would have seen the problem with a bunch of Germans using chambers filled with poisonous gas in the name of science

Something to ponder about, huh? Considering that VW Beetle was Hitler's idea.

[GTO]

Prashanth Murthy wants to share this video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkatIgyBqw0

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

The title of the thread seems to suggest that only monkeys were used in the testing. However - most news channels are reporting that hundreds of humans were used for the tests as well -

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-42858668

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ns-and-monkeys

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ts/1073987001/

Also - BMW and Daimler are involved as well.

[avira_tk]

I'm sure the details will be out soon and whether this violated the law is yet to be determined. The most irritating part of the scandal is the grandstanding by governments that made diesel popular with their tax policies. The fact is that fuel taxes funded the welfare state and people naturally found the most efficient way to use their money.

The tests on monkeys is a lot better than what this company's legacy would have them do. Here's a nice take on it by sniffpetrol.com,
the first few lines captures the gist of the story. http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/08/14/dr.../#.WnAy8SNX7qA

[Joxster]

This is horrible, just horrible! If there were people being used as test subjects, at least they had a choice. The poor monkeys never had any choice. Hard to believe that humans can be this inhumane
One thing is quite certain for this scandal though, if it is proven that these tests happened, Volkswagen will lose some sales for sure. Anyone who is passionate about animals, involved in animal rights/activism, or even concerned about the environment will not buy their cars anymore. Daimler & BMW better watch out!

[V.Narayan]

Permit me to state a counter point of view. No offense meant to those against VW and upset by their experiments.

We humans eat animals by the tens of thousands each day - cows, lambs, goats, deer, fish of all kinds, chickens, ducks et al. Most are killed in abattoirs in a fairly ghastly and painful way. One almost never hears this squeamish holier than thou attitude over animals for food.

Animals have been used for testing products for decades. Not sure why this fuss over VW and its monkeys. If we find that offensive then there are hundreds of cosmetics, allopathic medicines, anti-cancer drugs, cleaning agents, household chemicals etc which we should stop consuming immediately. Companies known to test products on animals are Maybelline, Avon, Estee Lauder, Victoria's Secret, Unilever, Procter & Gamble, Henkel, Colgate Palmolive, Johnson & Johnson amongst several others. Products of these companies would be found in our kitchens, bathrooms, washing machines and dressing tables. Where does the pressure to conduct tests on animals comes from - it comes finally from the consumer, from laws, from risk of class action suits, from demand for safer products at lower prices.

The press will be all over this because the press needs to be fed each day. VW are right now an easy target whose name linked to anything-gate will sell news. If this had been some oil company in Venezuela testing fumes on monkeys no one would have heard of it. VW could have been more thoughtful but they are not doing anything different or worse than what each of us does by consuming these products and by our dietary preferences.

[NiXTriX2004]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Permit me to state a counter point of view. No offense meant to those against VW and upset by their experiments.

We humans eat animals by the tens of thousands each day - cows, lambs, goats, deer, fish of all kinds, chickens, ducks et al. Most are killed in abattoirs in a fairly ghastly and painful way. One almost never hears this squeamish holier than thou attitude over animals for food.

Animals have been used for testing products for decades. Not sure why this fuss over VW and its monkeys. If we find that offensive then there are hundreds of cosmetics, allopathic medicines, anti-cancer drugs, cleaning agents, household chemicals etc which we should stop consuming immediately. Companies known to test products on animals are Maybelline, Avon, Estee Lauder, Victoria's Secret, Unilever, Procter & Gamble, Henkel, Colgate Palmolive, Johnson & Johnson amongst several others. Products of these companies would be found in our kitchens, bathrooms, washing machines and dressing tables. Where does the pressure to conduct tests on animals comes from - it comes finally from the consumer, from laws, from risk of class action suits, from demand for safer products at lower prices.

The press will be all over this because the press needs to be fed each day. VW are right now an easy target whose name linked to anything-gate will sell news. If this had been some oil company in Venezuela testing fumes on monkeys no one would have heard of it. VW could have been more thoughtful but they are not doing anything different or worse than what each of us does by consuming these products and by our dietary preferences.

Although I agree that there is an element of holier than thou at play here, there still needs to be outrage on this issue. We must put an end to the beastly acts of testing cosmetics and medicines on animals ASAP. Things will not improve if status quo and apathy exist for everything. We must pick and choose the battle we fight. VW today, Maybelline tomorrow, and animals reared for food in inhospitable conditions another day.

[Nissan1180]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Permit me to state a counter point of view. No offense meant to those against VW and upset by their experiments.

We humans eat animals by the tens of thousands each day - cows, lambs, goats, deer, fish of all kinds, chickens, ducks et al. Most are killed in abattoirs in a fairly ghastly and painful way. One almost never hears this squeamish holier than thou attitude over animals for food.

Animals have been used for testing products for decades. Not sure why this fuss over VW and its monkeys. If we find that offensive then there are hundreds of cosmetics, allopathic medicines, anti-cancer drugs, cleaning agents, household chemicals etc which we should stop consuming immediately. Companies known to test products on animals are Maybelline, Avon, Estee Lauder, Victoria's Secret, Unilever, Procter & Gamble, Henkel, Colgate Palmolive, Johnson & Johnson amongst several others.

There are extremely strict guidelines about the use of animals in laboratories. It has to be approved by a chain of administrative authorities and there is a committee which involves external animal welfare specialists, a veterinary doctor and other experts. Most labs that do animal experiments have specific regulations for their upkeep, and requests for animal testing are rejected as frequently as they are approved. Here're the welfare guidelines for India. Look at Principle-1 and 2. No way would using monkeys to test the results of a corporate scam in such an unscientific experiment qualify, even in India. In first world countries, people go to jail for abusing lab animals.

I personally think choking monkeys to justify a scam is not something that counts towards academic research- people may have different views about this.

In legal abattoirs, animals are stunned before being killed to ensure a painless death. Also, killing an animal for food is not akin to using them for a scientifically indefensible experiment of this sort. Food chains have been maintained since life began, and those who don't want to be consume animals are not compelled in any way to do so. Also, cosmetics testing on animals is banned in the EU.

Not every media outlet creates news out of thin air. Some do, others just report on the facts and people are free to choose if they're comfortable with that.