[ChiragM]

According to a media report, under the controversial social credit system, the Chinese government is now preventing offenders from buying airline tickets as well as train tickets. Travelers were blocked from buying airline tickets 17.5 million times last year while 5.5 million attempts at buying train tickets were blocked. It is also reported that 128 people were not allowed to leave the country due to unpaid taxes.



In the social credit system, points are deducted for breaking the law. These include false advertising or violating drug safety rules as well as minor offences like walking a dog without a leash. Offenders were blocked 2,90,000 times from taking up senior management jobs or acting as a company's legal representative.

The ruling party claims that the system will improve order. It is a part of the government's efforts to tighten control using technology like data processing, genetic sequencing and artificial intelligence amongst others. It is reported that since the system came in place, 3.5 million people have voluntarily fulfilled legal obligations, including 37 people who paid a total of US$ 22 million in overdue fines.

By 2020, the government is looking to introduce a nationwide system with possible penalties like restrictions on travel, business and access to education. Companies on the blacklist can also lose government contracts, access to bank loans and get barred from issuing bonds or importing goods.

Source: Associated Press

Link to Team-BHP News

[Durango Dude]

To much of a clamp down will lead to revulsion and revolution. Concentrating power in one hand, social out-casting based on credits will not take long for another uprising. In country of some 1.6 billion if a movement snowballs nothing can stop it, especially with social media around. It's all okay till the economy booms, once the balloon bursts then all hell will break loose. I've a faint feeling the Chinese common must be jealous of India's "free for all" democracy.

[Nomad_Wind]

This is like 1984 on steroids. The Middle Kingdom is headed for trouble.

[rovingeye]

Good. If India had these checks, we wouldn't have the Nirav Modis and Vijay Mallyas of the world sitting in foreign shores and enjoying their lavish lives.

The idea is for people to understand and believe that immoral/unethical/unruly social behavior has heavy costs associated and therefore deter them from breaking rules in the first place.

If India had a similar regime and assigned serious penalties for driving in the wrong direction and other such infractions, we would have a much more civilized society today.

[Dry Ice]

Reminds me of Blackmirror: Nosedive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R32qWdOWrTo

Vice news have covered it nicely -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkw15LkZ_Kw

[naveenroy]

TBH, I thought this was started to track and monitor an ethnic minority group in China. That was more Orwellian - with facial recognition, tracking of every movement using thousands of cameras etc. Or am I mixing up both?

And seriously - tell me, which government in power wouldn't like something like this? We talk about the freedom in India and though there is a lot of it, we have to agree that it is being chipped away. We're lucky to have a strong court system - something that isn't really swayed by markets and capitalistic ideals. But think of the Aadhar card. Wouldn't that have helped in laying the foundation for such a system? No, I don't want to be political about it. Let's not go there. And moreover, this forum doesn't allow it. Whatever political party, I am sure that they would love to have such large amounts of data on their population. How much they earn, where they spend it, what assets they own etc. And this tied back to your credit information? Granted, our courts hopefully will never allow such a foundation to be laid but as they say, there's a first time for everything. If DJT could become president, anyone can.

My thought is that it is best to be eternally vigilant. We will be sold these "schemes" in many guises.

[Durango Dude]

Originally Posted by naveenroy

TBH, I thought this was started to track and monitor an ethnic minority group in China. That was more Orwellian - with facial recognition, tracking of every movement using thousands of cameras etc. Or am I mixing up both?But think of the Aadhar card. Wouldn't that have helped in laying the foundation for such a system? No, I don't want to be political about it. Let's not go there. And moreover, this forum doesn't allow it. Whatever political party, I am sure that they would love to have such large amounts of data on their population. How much they earn, where they spend it, what assets they own etc. And this tied back to your credit information?My thought is that it is best to be eternally vigilant. We will be sold these "schemes" in many guises.

The very same ethnic minority our NW neighbor would love to support the very same NW neighbor China is in bed with: strange 'bedfellows' indeed! BTW you must be having a "social security" number given your location; so what's in an Aadhar Card.

[alpha1]

In the social credit system, points are deducted for breaking the law. These include false advertising or violating drug safety rules as well as minor offences like walking a dog without a leash.

IT makes sense. Earlier because people used to live and interact mostly with their relatives and old time connections - the social factor was important in facilitating the adherence to rules and regulations.

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

To much of a clamp down will lead to revulsion and revolution. Concentrating power in one hand, social out-casting based on credits will not take long for another uprising. In country of some 1.6 billion if a movement snowballs nothing can stop it, especially with social media around. It's all okay till the economy booms, once the balloon bursts then all hell will break loose. I've a faint feeling the Chinese common must be jealous of India's "free for all" democracy.

Actually, my observation is that most people do not care about the freedom aspect as long as their daily lives are not affected. Revolutions are caused when public feels economically marginalized - and there is someone who is politically ambitious leading them.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by alpha1

IT makes sense. Earlier because people used to live and interact mostly with their relatives and old time connections - the social factor was important in facilitating the adherence to rules and regulations.

Actually, my observation is that most people do not care about the freedom aspect as long as their daily lives are not affected. Revolutions are caused when public feels economically marginalized - and there is someone who is politically ambitious leading them.

The laws are made to ensure that the ruling party is never challenged, with a mandate like that, what is "right" is not up for debate. The social factor you speak of never existed prior to the opening of the economy and private ownership was allowed. The system gives points to snitching and praising the party and leadership. It's not meant to prevent crime, unless questioning a murderous dictatorship qualifies as one.

Most people you interact with may not discuss politics and that's not unusual, but the average person is politically savvy and our history post independence is proof of that. Economic disasters are the end result of politics and being ignorant of politics is setting up ourselves for disaster. Daily experience is an indicator of the political climate, especially for those outside the organized sector.

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by ChiragM

Travelers were blocked from buying airline tickets 17.5 million times last year while 5.5 million attempts at buying train tickets were blocked. It is also reported that 128 people were not allowed to leave the country due to unpaid taxes.

Good move, though considering its China, the implementation might be a bit sketchy in terms of what the govt. does with the data. That said, I am happy for these moves. As a law-abiding, tax paying citizen, it drives me mad when I see rule breakers going scot-free. I'm not saying give me concessions for being a good citizen, but atleast go after those who are breaking rules!

Implementation is the key here and I'd love to see such a system here in India.

Originally Posted by alpha1

IT makes sense. Earlier because people used to live and interact mostly with their relatives and old time connections - the social factor was important in facilitating the adherence to rules and regulations.

Spot on observation buddy! Even today in some communities, the fear of 'log kya kahenge' is keeping people in check. The Chinese social system aims to maybe replace this factor of keeping people on the line.

[Nomad_Wind]

What if one rubs a senior communist party official the wrong way and he decides to make your life hell, using his influence? Reminds of the old Gene Hackman Will Smith movie "Enemy of the State".

[Durango Dude]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Actually, my observation is that most people do not care about the freedom aspect as long as their daily lives are not affected. Revolutions are caused when public feels economically marginalized - and there is someone who is politically ambitious leading them.

The problem is people who rule aren't exactly saints. Concentrating power in just one hand and party gives them unbridled power and that can lead to huge problems in the long run. Probably, the city state of Singapore is an exception where things worked, but may not work in huge country with the largest population in the world.

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by blackwasp

...I'm not saying give me concessions for being a good citizen, but at least go after those who are breaking rules!
...

Actually this might have been a better way ahead. Reward/prioritise/incentivise the 'good citizens'*, ignore the 'non-good citizens'**, and act punitively towards major (non-political) offenders.

* - Data point based, open to a bit of subjectivity, scope for preferential bias
** - Doesn't allow a punitive system to take root, does not generate a significant ill-will, allows for errors without a major impact

Positive Reinforcement - Same as what succeeds with children.

[Jeroen]

Just to put things a bit in international perspective. If you try to leave the Netherlands via immigration, and there are outstanding fines, penalties, alimony etc. the immigration officer will not let you out of country, first you need to settle your debts. Anything resulting from a court conviction and certain traffic fines/penalties are all registered and they will flash up the minute they scan your passport.

Barring citizens from travelling within the national border seems a bit much. Although in very large countries, where do you draw the line?

But I have nothing against people who have formal dues (court orders) to be paid before they leave the country.

If a court has convicted you to pay alimony, to pay a speeding fine, to hand in your driver license. And if you don't, the consequences are for you. And one of them is you are going to get stopped at immigration.

Jeroen

[digitalnirvana]

I didn't want to wade in on this politically sensitive topic, but going by a few first hand accounts on reddit from people who are in the PRC - the social credit system goes WAY beyond a simple good behavior vs bad behavior thing. It aims to be an all encompassing charter on each citizen's behavior, thoughts and actions through use of social media monitoring, deep data mining, extensive use of facial recognition cameras and AI.

The example given by someone was that if someone jaywalks and is caught, the fine is deducted from the their bank accounts (linked to messaging app) and their face is displayed within seconds on name & shame billboards at the road junction.

People going from one region to another (especially for restive provinces like Xinjiang or Tibet) need biometric approval.

Without enough social credit it is entirely possible to freeze someone out from society - no bus, no train, no bank account, no school, no government subsidy, no jobs. Either get in line or kiss your life goodbye.

This is mass surveillance at an unprecedented level and very large companies (which I won't name) are actively assisting the government in its implementation.