[Doge]

Originally Posted by PratikPatel

Wow!!! An argument for keeping things filthy in the name of personal freedom and rights!!! First of all, while you may equate the word ‘modern’ to ‘western’ style democracy and its carp about how individual rights are sacrosanct, those same western democracies are now trying to curtain them in the name of national security. Freedom of absolute speech is no longer sacrosanct in the land of liberty where it was held as a moral torch for the world to emulate.

Here are some facts for you: UAE is not a democracy. Its a union of Sheikhidoms (kingdoms/emirates) wherein the Royal families of each emirate has semi independent jurisdiction and control over day to day running of their emirate. While modern titles like President, Prime Minister, Defence Minister, etc., are used in their government structure they are not a ‘western’ style democracy and nor do they pretend to be so. The country at its very essence still a monarchy. So if someone does not like their way of running things, they can pack their bags and leave.

Its quite amusing to hear people say as a knee jerk response they have built their country because of oil. While oil played a major part in bringing in the moneys required to build the country, they still needed to have a vision to build the country as it is today. Nigeria, Venezuela, Angola are all oil rich countries, but I am sure that you would think twice before going to these countries. Oil alone is not responsible for the development of UAE.

I see from your location that you are based in Turin, so let me ask you ‘how’s the crime rate in Italy?’ And a more fundamental question ‘Will you be comfortable with a lady member of your family being out alone at 2AM in the morning in Europe?”

Here’s a small anecdote about my wife and my experience. I was on a business trip to Korea, when my wife had to go for a bridal shower one evening. A friend picked her up (we lived in Sharjah) and they drove down to Abu Dhabi. As the party ran late into the night, my wife and her friend left Abu Dhabi just after 12 in the morning. In those days, you would not find a soul on the road after 11 PM other than trucks on Sheikh Zayed Road. As they approached the border of Dubai/Sharjah (I still remember that we had to take a right exit off SZ road and there was board welcoming you to Sharjah) their car suffered a flat tyre. The place where they stopped was literally desert, there was nothing there for kms and the time was around 2 in the morning. My wife called the police and told them the problem. Within 5 minutes 2 Dubai police petrol cars came down. The first asked if my wife and her friend were ok. After assessing the situation, they asked them to stand on kerb while the cops when about changing the tyre. Within 10 minutes they had the spare tyre on and they were ready to go on their way. However, it does not end there. The senior cop told my wife that they had informed Sharjah police about the problem and a Sharjah Police petrol car is waiting at the end the exit to escort them home, they would also be followed by a Dubai Police car till they were handed over to Sharjah Police car. So rest of the journey till home was with police escort to ensure my wife and her friend reached home safely. Next day morning, my wife called me and told me about the whole thing. When I asked if she was worried, she said emphatically that she felt safe all through the whole thing.

Late reply but here we go.
First, Turin. Now I commend the Police there for their swiftness but you may find it enlightening to know that women walking around my city and taking the bus alone, many times drunk, is the norm and not the exception. Forget city, it is the same here at small town and villages. Here the notion of women being unsafe at any time is bizarre and unheard of, we treat them as equal members of the society, something maybe the middle east need to catch up on, apparently.

I see that people here are very attached to the oil rich countries, fair enough, everyone has their own opinions but it would be foolish to even compare them to the freedom of people to Europe, we don't like to butcher journalists at the embassy here .

And filthiness is when something is so dirty that it is a health hazard, when was a car dusty enough that it caused a pandemic? I like my SUV to be muddy, even in India where it is so cheap to have it cleaned.

Edit: Didn't check all replies to me but people were saying how clean and modern city Dubai is, how free it is and blahblah.
Except if you are one of the many slave like laborers of-course, but who cares if the Burj Khalifa was made by a bunch of
people working in sort of a gulag for the rich? It has a real gold inside!
Peeps, what ever shines is not gold.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by Doge

Here the notion of women being unsafe at any time is bizarre and unheard of, we treat them as equal members of the society, something maybe the middle east need to catch up on, apparently.

I see that people here are very attached to the oil rich countries, fair enough, everyone has their own opinions but it would be foolish to even compare them to the freedom of people to Europe, we don't like to butcher journalists at the embassy here .

While I refrain from reacting to "below the belt" comments, I guess nobody here claimed that Dubai is more liberal or safer for women than Europe or that the Middle East has the perfect political environment.

Dubai is safe. Is it safer than Turin... How does it matter? We need to be happy that both countries are safe.

And we are honestly deviating from the topic of this thread to world politics!

And filthiness is when something is so dirty that it is a health hazard, when was a car dusty enough that it caused a pandemic? I like my SUV to be muddy, even in India where it is so cheap to have it cleaned.

It is very simple. They like their city to be clean and presentable and they think of dirty cars as an obstruction to this vision.

If it suits you, well and good. If it doesn't, please do not park it on a public road.

Edit: Didn't check all replies to me but people were saying how clean and modern city Dubai is, how free it is and blahblah.
Except if you are one of the many slave like laborers of-course, but who cares if the Burj Khalifa was made by a bunch of
people working in sort of a gulag for the rich? It has a real gold inside!
Peeps, what ever shines is not gold.

It is clear that you have some sort of hatred for the Middle East and I do not blame you for that, considering how these countries are projected in western media. Let us not get into of "mine-is-better-than-yours" brickbat, that is not the point of this thread.

[Doge]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

While I refrain from reacting to "below the belt" comments, I guess nobody here claimed that Dubai is more liberal or safer for women than Europe or that the Middle East has the perfect political environment.

Dubai is safe. Is it safer than Turin... How does it matter? We need to be happy that both countries are safe.

And we are honestly deviating from the topic of this thread to world politics!


It is very simple. They like their city to be clean and presentable and they think of dirty cars as an obstruction to this vision.

If it suits you, well and good. If it doesn't, please do not park it on a public road.



It is clear that you have some sort of hatred for the Middle East and I do not blame you for that, considering how these countries are projected in western media. Let us not get into of "mine-is-better-than-yours" brickbat, that is not the point of this thread.

Hi Raj,
Since I still haven't figured out how vbullitin works, I will reply through pointers.

A. Have a look at my quoted post, there was a direct comparison.

B. I agree with the public parking point, it is the Dubai's property and from what I know, there aren't a lot of taxes so you are not exactly entitled to do what you want outside, fair enough.

C. Hatred is a strong word, but it is not too inaccurate. You are somewhat right in this assumption, frankly. It would be naive to assume the media is responsible for this though and the overall image of the middle east here is just a bunch of very rich people, that is it.

The problem to me is not that people can't leave their cars how they want for now, the problem is that this is the brush stroke for a bigger painting which I hope people understand. I could be completely wrong, I have never been there but I feel that a lot of middle eastern countries are kinda deceiving, the huge hotels, modern infrastructure,police driving around in Bugatti's, kids showing up to school in a Rolls etc.
All this looks cool but what lies behind is a country or countries which use really cheap labor and exploit them, engage in shady activities with organizations which are not... world peace if you get my drift and these are just the things that I can think from the top of my head.
This is getting a bit political but so is this move despite it being such a small niggle.
Maybe I am just super biased, probably cause I see a bunch of people who are treated as third class citizens at the airports. All those poor future laborers who will be exploited soon for some petty change that Dubai or what ever place they go to will through on them.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Doge

Hi Raj,
It would be naive to assume the media is responsible for this though and the overall image of the middle east here is just a bunch of very rich people, that is it.

I could be completely wrong, I have never been there but I feel that a lot of middle eastern countries are kinda deceiving, the huge hotels, modern infrastructure,police driving around in Bugatti's, kids showing up to school in a Rolls etc.
All this looks cool but what lies behind is a country or countries which use really cheap labor and exploit them, engage in shady activities with organizations which are not... world peace if you get my drift and these are just the things that I can think from the top of my head.
Maybe I am just super biased, probably cause I see a bunch of people who are treated as third class citizens at the airports. All those poor future laborers who will be exploited soon for some petty change that Dubai or what ever place they go to will through on them.

You Sir are entitled to your views. I respect your right to have them that's why I have clicked 'thanks' on this post. But when you say you have never been to the Middle East (see bold marked above) but you are willing to say a hundred nasty things without any first hand experience then I feel sorry for you. I must compliment you on your masterful ways of taking a simple point of cleanliness, a matter most usually don't have an issue with, and turning it into a diatribe on culture, allegedly exploited labour, Bugattis and a whole region having a deceiving character. Well done.

I appreciate your empathy for the labourers. I work in the social impact sphere and connect with that sentiment. Yes the construction labourer is exploited in the Middle East much like they are India or China or Brazil. Much like the branded clothes you buy in Turin are made off the back of a hapless Bangaladeshi working in a sweat shop. Those labourers in Dubai are all there voluntarily to earn a better income that what they'd get back home in South Asia.

As someone who once owned a fairly sizeable business in Dubai (and three European countries) I'll say this Dubai is a far easier and more sophisticated place to do business than the European countries I dealt with for years.

Maybe it's time you visited the Middle East or at least Dubai.