[raystriker]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

I am sure there are several threads on this topic. What you have mentioned are some of the top myths.

In terms of generation - Solar panels on a small patch/square of 145 miles on each side can power all of USA. I have just 9 solar panels on top of my house, it produces more electricity than what I use during the entire year. On a mid sized home like mine, I can install 10 times the number of panels I currently have - powering 10 homes in theory. Today American cities are having to deal with safety concerns of dismantling and disposing spent fuel from old nuclear power stations. They can't leave them in place, they cannot transport them safely. Also, consider the issues from Fukushima Daiichi disaster, and the costs involved. IMHO, these are the primary reasons why USA, France, and others want to export/dump nuclear tech to India.

Unlike a tank of petrol, a battery pack on a modern EV can last 200,000 miles. Even after that it can be used in utility grade storage solutions for wind farms and such. Finally, when there is a need to dispose, it can be done in a contained manner at a dedicated site. This is unlike the air pollution that is spread wherever the ICE vehicle has ever been to in its lifetime. Good luck to mankind in capturing/cleaning this mess.

Once the switch to EVs are made, there will be further innovations in the area of better batteries, and alternate minerals. We already have various mineral mixes used in batteries. With things like wireless charging, and autonomous tech, we would not have a need for giant batteries. It is the addiction of tapping into freely available oil, and leaving the expensive cost of dealing with the pollution for our future generations that is the biggest roadblock.

https://insideevs.com/features/36251...-toyota-camry/

I don't think I have dabbled in any myths.

You seem to be looking through rose-colored glasses. You are talking about a lot of hypotheticals. The idea of having a 100+ mile sq. piece of land to power all of USA sounds cool, but even much, much, much smaller ones have been found destroying wildlife.

Here's a reality check-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yALPEpV4w

https://www.desertsun.com/story/tech...arms/88868372/

Plus, this is only possible in places like California that are predominantly sunny. What about the rest of the world?

Also, what are the costs of making something like that at such a large scale?
India probably can't afford something like that.
Do we even have enough materials to make all those solar panels and batteries to store all that energy?

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by raystriker

I don't think I have dabbled in any myths.
You seem to be looking through rose-colored glasses. You are talking about a lot of hypotheticals. The idea of having a 100+ mile sq. piece of land to power all of USA sounds cool, but even much, much, much smaller ones have been found destroying wildlife.
Here's a reality check-
Plus, this is only possible in places like California that are predominantly sunny. What about the rest of the world?
Also, what are the costs of making something like that at such a large scale?
India probably can't afford something like that.
Do we even have enough materials to make all those solar panels and batteries to store all that energy?

Sure there are people who disagree, but that does not automatically qualify to be reality. I do not think Mr, Shellenberger is recommending fossil fuels, but he takes the side of nuclear power (I only took a quick look at some of the first few hits of his name from a search engine). If that is the way forward for any country to power their EVs, so be it. https://www.clf.org/blog/top-5-myths...cles-debunked/

My opinions are formed from having home solar, and an EV on which I have added 20k miles. I have been recommending home solar and EV to several of my friends who have changed their minds on how economical things are for them.

India is closer to the equator with 12 hours of sunlight compared to countries further away from equator. Renewable energy does not have to be solar alone, it an also include wind. Denmark produced 57% of net electricity from renewables in 2015.

A country cannot look at cost of energy production alone. It needs to consider the cost of people being treated because of illness related to air pollution. Kudos to the Indian PM and Finance minister for recognizing these facts and pushing for EV with long term returns in focus. Cost of solar has been dropping, and it will only drop further with local manufacturing.

Ivanpah facility is the concentrated solar thermal project. It is an exception, there are no other projects like that being built. I am not suggesting we find one large piece of land for solar, but get businesses and communities to adopt solar. Sure birds crash into windows of homes, and house cats always kill birds. The answer to those is not fossil fuel. The impact of greenhouse gases and climate change is for real.

[V.Narayan]

Gutsy Gibbon, You are a man after my own heart. Two beautiful, factual informative posts. Your two posts #15 and #17 are recommended reading for all especially those who wish to enhance their reality check on solar/renewables above the banal and cliched.

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

In terms of generation - Solar panels on a small patch/square of 145 miles on each side can power all of USA. I have just 9 solar panels on top of my house, it produces more electricity than what I use during the entire year. On a mid sized home like mine, I can install 10 times the number of panels I currently have - powering 10 homes in theory.

At a charitable hospital in Haryana, which I am closely affiliated to, we have installed solar panels on the roof that generate 300 KW average through the year. It effectively powers over a significant part of the hospital's 24x7 power needs. And it is virtually maintenance free. And just when we thought we've run out of space we realized the panels can be fitted in the open air parking lot at a height on stilts. Solar power encourages you to think differently.

Unlike a tank of petrol, a battery pack on a modern EV can last 200,000 miles. Even after that it can be used in utility grade storage solutions for wind farms and such. Finally, when there is a need to dispose, it can be done in a contained manner at a dedicated site. This is unlike the air pollution that is spread wherever the ICE vehicle has ever been to in its lifetime. Good luck to mankind in capturing/cleaning this mess.

Very important points which are almost always missed by the pro-oil lobby who have a deep vested interest despite the laughable 'green' advertisements being put up by Exxon and BP.

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

A country cannot look at cost of energy production alone. It needs to consider the cost of people being treated because of illness related to air pollution. Kudos to the Indian PM and Finance minister for recognizing these facts and pushing for EV with long term returns in focus. Cost of solar has been dropping, and it will only drop further with local manufacturing.

+1 to that. It is not just about EVs. EVs are but a small part of a whole wave of change that will come and is coming on energy & its parts as a whole - how we generate it, how we use, how we dispose off.

Instead of bemoaning the passage of the ICE engine I would say let's be excited about this momentous change. In the history of transportation such occasions come only rarely - diesels and electrics taking over from steam railways engines; steam ship travel giving way to air travel; propeller-piston airplanes giving way to jets , horse drawn carriages giving way to cars and so on. The secret of being young at heart and spirit is 'dont cling on to what you are used to; embrace change' .

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

In terms of generation - Solar panels on a small patch/square of 145 miles on each side can power all of USA. I have just 9 solar panels on top of my house, it produces more electricity than what I use during the entire year. On a mid sized home like mine, I can install 10 times the number of panels I currently have - powering 10 homes in theory. T

Sorry for OT. What is the rating of the solar panels installed by you? I have 15 solar panels installed on my house - generating 3KW. While I don't deny the savings, it will be just untrue if I say they meet even 50% of our total household requirement.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Gutsy Gibbon, You are a man after my own heart. Two beautiful, factual informative posts. .

Like, I said, I am a proponent of Solar - having invested a relatively large sum for myself on it. But I highly doubt the facts shared here.

I do agree largely with what has been shared in this opinion piece:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ot-subsidised/

[V.Narayan]

Given that you put your money on solar your views matter more. Please could you share for the benefit of all what rating panels you use and how old are they. Even in the last ten years the rating per panel has increased by 25% to 30% and more.

Originally Posted by rrsteer

Sorry for OT. What is the rating of the solar panels installed by you? I have 15 solar panels installed on my house - generating 3KW. While I don't deny the savings, it will be just untrue if I say they meet even 50% of our total household requirement. Like, I said, I am a proponent of Solar - having invested a relatively large sum for myself on it. But I highly doubt the facts shared here.

I do agree largely with what has been shared in this opinion piece:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ot-subsidised/

I have always respected your posts. Sadly here we'll politely agree to disagree. With regards to the article - one man's installation and personal experience cannot be extrapolated to the global universe of users and solar panels. The fact that he is a politician wanna be who trumpets his holier than thou purity makes him doubly suspect. He hasn't stated a single shred of data other than his own highly limited personal experience of one tiny installation in one home! In 2014 we installed ~2000 panels* on the roof of one of my industrial workshops and have been very satisfied with the results. IIRC those 2000 had a rated capacity of 560 kw for the Indian day. No complaints.

* A typical commercial solar panel is ~1 metre wide on the ground and ~2 metre high.

[Holyghost]

A bold move by Mercedes. I am hoping Indian manufacturers to follow the path sooner. I have been waiting for an EV in the 10-20L range for the past 4 years.

Originally Posted by rrsteer

Sorry for OT. What is the rating of the solar panels installed by you? I have 15 solar panels installed on my house - generating 3KW. While I don't deny the savings, it will be just untrue if I say they meet even 50% of our total household requirement.

Which year did you setup your panels? I had installed 12 panels rated 250kw each for a 3KW setup in 2016. Now we have 330kw panels which would need only 9 panels for a 3KW setup.

[rrsteer]

Sorry Mods, just ending this bit of OT discussion here.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Given that you put your money on solar your views matter more. Please could you share for the benefit of all what rating panels you use and how old are they. Even in the last ten years the rating per panel has increased by 25% to 30% and more.

This won't be the right thread for that discussion. I had shared some details on the on grid 2KW system in the relevant thread (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...-home-etc.html). It was installed in 2017. Thereafter I had some discussion with learned members on installing a 1KW off grid system, which i subsequently installed last month, but didn't share the details. Plan to share the complete details in that thread in the coming days. I am still highly skeptical of the statement that a house - atleast in north India can run completely on solar. Probably, there are advancements I am not aware of and will be most happy to know that and ofcourse will become an adopter in due course.

Originally Posted by Holyghost

I had installed 12 panels rated 250kw each for a 3KW setup in 2016. Now we have 330kw panels which would need only 9 panels for a 3KW setup.

I may be wrong here and apologies for the same. What I remember is having four rows of panel installed for the on-grid system in 2017. And 3 panels installed recently. I hought the 4 rows consist of 4 panels each. Will check for sure when I get home tomorrow.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

At a charitable hospital in Haryana, which I am closely affiliated to, we have installed solar panels on the roof that generate 300 KW average through the year. It effectively powers over a significant part of the hospital's 24x7 power needs. And it is virtually maintenance free. And just when we thought we've run out of space we realized the panels can be fitted in the open air parking lot at a height on stilts. Solar power encourages you to think differently.

Kudos to your efforts V.Narayan! I wish and hope your experience and expertise influences others in your area.

Originally Posted by rrsteer

Sorry for OT. What is the rating of the solar panels installed by you? I have 15 solar panels installed on my house - generating 3KW. While I don't deny the savings, it will be just untrue if I say they meet even 50% of our total household requirement.

Doesn't that mean the installer did not access the usage correctly, or there has been a drastic change in usage? My utility company did not allow installing over capacity, but they allow annual true up - to accommodate for excess production in summer and a low in winter. My installed capacity was to cover 110% of prior year usage. Whatever the rating is, it has to be enough to cover the known usage from the previous year. In my case, it did and I have been getting a small amount credited to my account at the end of the year. I also updated the insulation, installed LED lights & attic fans to reduce usage to be well within my installed capacity.