[sandeepmohan]

Querying for a far and future purchase.

I am looking at two very different cars. A 2010 Mercedes C300 with the 3l NA V6 and 70,000 on the odometer. The other car is a 2013 Audi A5 Sportback with the ubiquitous 1.8l Turbo and 80,000km. These are normal odometer readings for cars of this age. I am inclined towards the Audi as I love the coupe shape of the car. The C300 is quite a popular car. The A5 less so. The cars are likely to be Japanese imports into New Zealand.

What is the good and bad about these cars, should I stay away from them? Mechanical warranties are available at a added cost.

[GTO]

Mod Note: Moving thread to the International Scene!

With older models, I'd go with whichever I like more. Pick the A5 & get that warranty!

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by GTO

With older models, I'd go with whichever I like more. Pick the A5 & get that warranty!

I was trying to get some pointers on the mechanical and electrical reliability of both cars. This particular Audi, I suspect, does not use a dsg and is a TFSI engine, but I am not sure about this. Even though I can pay for a mechanical warranty, it is third party and not directly from the manufacturer. Its more a back up. Straight off the bat, the Mercedes would sound like the more reliable of the two as it uses a NA V6 but I don't know much else.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

I was trying to get some pointers on the mechanical and electrical reliability of both cars. This particular Audi, I suspect, does not use a dsg and is a TFSI engine, but I am not sure about this. Even though I can pay for a mechanical warranty, it is third party and not directly from the manufacturer. Its more a back up. Straight off the bat, the Mercedes would sound like the more reliable of the two as it uses a NA V6 but I don't know much else.

First off, is this going to be an addition to your Legacy or is it going to replace it?

If it’s the latter, I’m afraid you need to prepare yourself & your wallet for the endless money pit experience which you’re gonna have with either of those two choices.

If it’s the former, I hope you don’t suffer from OCD, as you’ll have to learn to live with not all electronics functioning normally, especially the Merc.

It’s all well & good for bragging rights when you own a German luxury vehicle, but the buck stops there. If you have high running & expect those cars to keep up with you, without constantly throwing tantrums, I’m afraid you haven’t done your research well. German vehicles will bankrupt you as they age, there is no question about that.

Now, IF you plan to use these as a weekend toy or you hardly use them (very low running), the C300 will certainly be a better choice among those two (again, ONLY if your yearly running is extremely low & if it’s manufactured in Germany).

Don’t even think about an EA888 (isn’t that what’s going to be in the A5?) as they have horrible, and I mean HORRIBLE reliability. That family of engines are notorious for burning oil & seizing, thanks to the VAG group’s garbage engineering. This is just one of the countless bad reviews available online - https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=118

To find the rest, just type in these keywords into google search - audi 1.8 tfsi engine problems

Another example of an EA888 seizing up in an A4 with just ~ 150,000kms after 10yrs -

https://youtu.be/yTecF1nKw1Q

If I were you, I’d get a Lexus ES, as I know from living in Aus, there’s isn’t any dearth of good Lexus sedans in the ANZ region, and your maintenance bills are going to be a quarter of what they would be, if you owned a Merc/BMW/Audi money pit.

As with any used car, get it thoroughly inspected by a trusted mechanic before purchase, to check the mechanical health & if it was wrecked, flooded or stolen.

It’s your money, and your choices, but choose wisely!

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze

First off, is this going to be an addition to your Legacy or is it going to replace it?

We sold our 2005 Subaru a couple of weeks ago. It was a trouble free car in 3+ years we used it and had clocked only 113,000km (low kilometers for a car like this). Other than the love for burning fuel, which is to be expected from a 3l boxer motor, the cost to maintain it was low. The car ended up being excess as we have a Mercedes A170 aka "cheese grater", which my wife finds easier to drive (She is short in height). This purchase will replace the Mercedes and be the sole car in the garage. I don't want two cars. It is a headache and I rent so parking can be a challenge.

I've been reading about the EA888 and there is a lot being discussed about excess oil consumption issues, premature piston ring wear, carbon deposit problems with high mileage, poorly maintained and nanny driven cars. There are garages that do carbon deposit cleaning which will be a cost one needs to factor every 60,000km or so but the rest are problems that are not easy fixes or can't be fixed.

Much appreciate the advice.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

This purchase will replace the Mercedes and be the sole car in the garage. I don't want two cars. It is a headache and I rent so parking can be a challenge.

No way in hell can you expect a used 10 yr old German to be your only car in the household. That is a good way to put you off German cars for life.

If you still want that C300, I strongly recommend buying a second, used Corolla Ascent or Civic Hatch, to fall back on, for the times the C300 is in the shop. As much as that Merc is a NA V6, it still has the full suite of modern Mercedes over engineering and that host of electronic sensors which will surely start ageing post the 10yr mark & turn into an endless money pit as it continues to age. And I know how much mechanics who specialised in German vehicles, charged per hour in Aus.

If you must have a luxury, single car German in the driveway, lease a new one. That way, you don’t care if it breaks & has huge repair bills.

You’re coming from the legendary H6 boxer (yes, I know it has a history of inherent overheating problems), into a whole world of problems which you didn’t even know existed, in the Germans. Robust Japanese perfection vs junk German over-engineering.

Again, it’s your choice. But be well informed about the issues which you may potentially face when you buy an old, used German.

The VAG diesels + MT combos are much more robust compared to their petrol cousins (they still suffer from cheap plastic & electronic troubles though).

If you want a premium badge & great ride quality (especially used & single car household), I’d rather go Lexus. But that’s just me.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze

Again, it’s your choice. But be well informed about the issues which you may potentially face when you buy an old, used German.

There are qualities to a German car that I appreciate and that are just not there in a Japanese car, which is why I wanted to pursue one at a later date. I see these qualities even in our Mercedes A170. This car is pretty basic in its mechanicals which is why I bought it.

When the used car market is so attractive, it makes little sense to lease. Imagine driving a beautiful 2013 A5 for as little as 12lacs! It does not get sweeter than this.

A used Lexus is way too expensive in New Zealand. They are expensive as they are reliable and relatively easy to fix.

Subaru H6 motors do not suffer from over heating problems. A particular generation (before mine) had head gasket failures which lead to over heating.

Diesel, as a fuel is almost on its way out for personal transportation in New Zealand. Limited options to buy new cars with a diesel except for some large SUV's.

Was looking at a Civic RS and then dropped it due to oil dilution problems. No Corolla's for me :-)

I'll just stick to another Subaru and buy one with the biggest NA motor I can find.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

A used Lexus is way too expensive in New Zealand. They are expensive as they are reliable and relatively easy to fix.

This may explain a little.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/37444/...exus-v8-engine

From my own experience, Lexus is simply unmatched when it comes to repairs. To begin with, there are only few electronics to go wrong. You need to change the oils/ filters, brake pads & rotate brake pads and fill some premium fuel.

There are qualities to a German car that I appreciate and that are just not there in a Japanese car

I will agree, the driving experience is different. But instead of buying a used Audi or MB just because these are cheap may not be a good decision unless you can mend the things if something goes wrong. And neither of the cars you have mentioned will be any unique as far as driving is concerned. It's all about relativity, better than something you already have bit nothing that you are missing by a lot.

If you must buy a German car and are ok with repairs etc, look for some neat examples of Porsche. If those are expensive, my second preference will be BMW or a Mini and then Mercedes. If these are all expensive and you are sold on an Audi, do check some VW models perhaps.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

There are qualities to a German car that I appreciate and that are just not there in a Japanese car, which is why I wanted to pursue one at a later date.

Imagine driving a beautiful 2013 A5 for as little as 12lacs! It does not get sweeter than this.

A used Lexus is way too expensive in New Zealand. They are expensive as they are reliable and relatively easy to fix.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

From my own experience, Lexus is simply unmatched when it comes to repairs. To begin with, there are only few electronics to go wrong. You need to change the oils/ filters, brake pads & rotate brake pads and fill some premium fuel.

I will agree, the driving experience is different. But instead of buying a used Audi or MB just because these are cheap may not be a good decision unless you can mend the things if something goes wrong.

I absolutely agree with the fact that the driving experience in a German is different. Having extensively driven & ridden in my mate’s brand new C200, C250 & B200, I’ll agree the ride quality & driving dynamics are unmatched. What was also unmatched were the amount of sensor failures and unforeseen part replacements, which were faced in that 3yr old C200 which had hardly run 50,000kms.

The point is, these cars require constant attention and massive $$$ reserves, for you to enjoy (?) them. If you are prepared for that, then by all means, go right ahead.

Vanity doesn’t affect my personal car buying choices. You/others may be different.

Which brings me to the lure of extremely low priced used Germans. This video drives home the point even further -

https://youtu.be/Kv48ZepwNio

Turbanator has already explained it superbly, why Lexus vehicles hold their value. Don’t expect that with any German, without you having to spend a fortune to keep them in shape.

I get why people like owning & driving the Germans. There’s nothing wrong with that. But you’ll also notice, most of the said people will also have a Japanese workhorse parked alongside in the driveway, just for that rainy day.

Look, we can discuss this until the cows come home, but the question which you need to answer, and only you can answer that, is - Are you willing to spend the time & money involved, to have a single car garage, with an old German parked in it?

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

If these are all expensive and you are sold on an Audi, do check some VW models perhaps.

A Porsche does not work for a few reasons. It is even more expensive to maintain and I need a dual purpose car. One that can take my wife/me to work and back, for the occasional out of town trip and needs to accommodate a growing child. I drive on gravel roads once in a while so needs to survive that as well.

VW don't have many sedans on sale in New Zealand. Skoda sell more wagons than the entire VW sedan, wagon portfolio.

Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze

Are you willing to spend the time & money involved, to have a single car garage, with an old German parked in it?

Nope.

I've decided to un plug from this plan and just stick to my tried and trusted Subby or maybe a Mazda 6.

Thank you for the advice.