[msdivy]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

In India, where some auto mags sound more as PR for Honda and should be called HondaCar India, there is scant data on long term user opinions and stats.......In Consumer reports long term (10 year) reliability trends, Toyota has the least problems, and a 10-year old Toyota gave lesser problems than a 7-year old Honda, and a 4-year old Merc.....

My budget was 8L. I would have bought a Toyota. But Toyota in India doesn't have anything in A,B or C segments . Hence I had to go for Honda.

Anyway, congrats to Toyota. This was as predicted last year.

[vasudeva]

The sales figure and future plans in the Indian market suggest that Maruti could face the heat from Toyota and Honda in 2009-10. Both these plan to launch a 5-8 lakhs car. I then plan to trade in my old Corsa for a Honda/toyota in the 5-8 lakh segment.

Toyota is a bit slower and so one would expect Honda to be planted in this 5-8 lakh segment before Toyota enters. Look at the Esteem/Baleno. While they still sell, the City, Fiesta, Accent, and Verna hastened the demise of Baleno. Maruti and Suzuki would then have to bring in newer techs into Indis instead of hawking out of production models and `reworked, retuned old wine in a new bottle engines'.

Regarding Toyota and Honda, worldwide Honda is always known for making great natural engines. Honda's reliability is almost on par with Toyota. But most reviews, ConsumerReports and others criticise Toyota and Honda for just 2 things: Toyota for its bland looks, and Honda for its road noise. With its bland looks, Toyota would hardly sell, but its USP has been its reliability. Toyota knows that it is this factor that has made them No 1 and that is the reason why they are slow. The new Corolla was launched in Japan in Oct 06, and they have not hastened to launch it in the US just to showcase a new product. As it is Corolla outsells Civic in most markets.

[GTO]

This is HUGE, and a new chapter in the automotive industry. GM has ruled the roost for like almost forever! Well done Toyota. This is the net result of the right product, strategies, processes, marketing and taking care of your customers.

Gm deserved to get off the no.1 spot!

[vasudeva]

From what I can gather, amongst the big 3-GM, Toyota, Ford, GM seems to be on the way to some recovery. They have been killed by huge retiree benefits costs which have hurt product development expenditure. To improve quality, they are taking steps but the fact is that Toyota has set benchmarks that keep going up. GM has also consciously reduced sales to rentals companies who were taking more discounts, hurting resale values, and leading to higher perceptions about bad quality (if 100 people drive the same car, maintenance goes high).

For Toyota, high sales have not come at the expense of quality or profits. For them, the equation is blandness plus high FE multiplied by top notch reliability equals super normal profits. If I know something, Toyota has the 2nd highest profits per car in the industry (the first is Porsche). That is unlike traditional US strategy of GM/Ford/Chrysler whose first priority is to move the metal at any cost. They are also known to pad their numbers by offloading cars from factory (thus a sale) to the dealers' lot.

But finallly GM is improving and some of their cars are recommended by ConsumerReports, and get high safety ratings by IIHS and NHTSA. About Ford, their European operations are supposed to be doing well, but not so in the US. Chrysler as you know is another story.

[rider60]

great news to hear TOYOTA stands Numero UNO!

i have a doubt here!

i dont understand how these toyotas in india are fuel efficient?
i havent come across any toyota that standsout for its fuel efficiency in india atleast. in comparision the all new innova is less fuel efficient than its rival TAVERA(isuzu powered engine.car from GM under chevrolet brand name).

please explain!

[iraghava]

Originally Posted by GTO

GM has ruled the roost for like almost forever!

Gm deserved to get off the no.1 spot!

53 years to be exact!!!

Originally Posted by vasudeva

From what I can gather, amongst the big 3-GM, Toyota, Ford, GM seems to be on the way to some recovery. They have been killed by huge retiree benefits costs which have hurt product development expenditure. To improve quality, they are taking steps but the fact is that Toyota has set benchmarks that keep going up. GM has also consciously reduced sales to rentals companies who were taking more discounts, hurting resale values, and leading to higher perceptions about bad quality (if 100 people drive the same car, maintenance goes high).

But finallly GM is improving and some of their cars are recommended by ConsumerReports, and get high safety ratings by IIHS and NHTSA.

Yes, but it's a question of too late & too less. They always knew about the Retiree & Healthcare benefits but chose to ignore it since they were doing fabulously for the past 5-odd decades & thus probably thought nobody could challange their supremacy. But, the Japs after the intial struggle showed that they could beat the Big 3 at their own game by improving their products substabtially.

Now, they are aping the Japs (Is that an embarassement or what!!!) and trying to play catch especially in the field of FE & Sedans (which the Japs right now completely dominate). They have the resources to do it but given the bad name & reputation they've generated from themselves it's going to be a very, very hard task. Also it involves taking some hard decision which the Worker's Union won't allow for & the Boards don't have the stomach for.

Let's hope their future plans have what the market demands and not what THEY think is right. Their sustained losses and quality issues are not doing them any good for either the Customers, Investor's Confidence or even Supplier's Confidence. Also, I don't think the US govt. can do what they did to save H-D (Introduction of extra taxes on imported bikes) to save the Big 3 from their troubles. So ultimately they are on their own now.

Originally Posted by vasudeva

If I know something, Toyota has the 2nd highest profits per car in the industry (the first is Porsche).

No, it's BMW.

[vasudeva]

Dear Mr. iraghava

You are correct that bmw has higher per car net profits than Toyota. For year to Dec 2006, BMW produced 1366838 cars and had a net profit of euro 2874 million, or euro 2102 per car (around US$2819/car). For Toyota for year to Mar 2006, it produced 7711647 cars and had a net profit of US$11681 million or US$1514/car. But this is for consolidated operations comprising other vehicles (motorcycles etc), and financial services and comprises net and not operating profit. Unfortunately, cost breakup and revenues for their automotive divisions is not available publicly and so car profitability cannot be derived. It is intuitive that BMW will have higher per car profits because of the segment it serves. Toyota is present in all segments and its results include Lexus also. But I read either in Fortune/Business Week/Ward (sorry cannot remember the exact issue or would have forwarded that link) sometime back, and that is why I made that statement about Toyota's per car profitability. Thus, I am sorry for having the statement without back up. If I have one, I shall post it here later.



Regarding GM's leadership, Chicago Tribune has said it was 76 years

But Toyota's march to the front, permanent or not, ends GM's 76-year streak as global sales leader. GM's name has been synonymous with "world's largest automaker," a reminder that appears in every company announcement.

The link is here

Toyota on top of car world | Chicago Tribune

[devarshi84]

here is what the analysts have to say about it. They are talking profitability, drawbacks, sales and product mix as a whole. Interesting read.

Can Detroit Accelerate? - Forbes.com

Toyota, which enjoyed a robust 11% jump in sales last quarter as it sprinted past GM, still dropped output by 1% in March. The company has expressed some caution going forward, voicing concern that a more competitive pickup truck market could crimp ambitious sales goals for the Toyota Tundra. Also, its manufacturing costs are rising in the U.S. And that's where politics potentially come in.

[sbasak]

Just out of curiosity, how are the other Jap brands [eg. Honda/Mazda/Nissan etc.] performing in the market?

[payam]

huge man,i didnt know toyota is on demand this much all over the wrold,so japan is catching us on this field too.

[vasudeva]

Although these are 3 month figures, Toyota in 2006 shot past DaimlerChrysler (one of the original Big 3) in US sales. In 2007 it is likely to surpass Ford in the US and GM globally. The final frontier would be outselling GM on GM's home turf.


If Toyota keeps adding US volume and GM keeps losing it at the same pace as in 2006, it could take place before 2009-10. the end of the decade.
In 2006, GM sold 4.07 million in US but Toyota sold 2.54 million. That is a gap of 1.52 million, but Toyota closed a 1.6 million unit gap with Ford in three years.

During 2006, Detroit 3 (GM, Ford, DC) lost 0.8 million in sales with their combined share down from 56.9% in 2005 to 53.7%. That means 4 assembly plants and 1000 dealers, based on the average throughput of a US operation. And Toyota is building new plants in the US, while GM and Ford closing plants.


In US, GM's leadership over Toyota has shrunk from 3296552 in 2000 to 1522816 in 2006. Ford had a 2584995-unit lead over Toyota in 2000. That was down to 358565 in 2006. DaimlerChrysler was 1109103 units ahead of Toyota back in 2000 but was 151940 units behind in 2006.



However, Toyota's US leadership over GM may take longer. In next 5 yrs, they could add 2 more plants in the US (likely output 1 million). Most expect its US share to be behind GM till around 2010-11, unless GM trips up badly (which is unlikely). Bottomline, GM's US share likely to go down from 24.5% in 2006 to 21-22% in 2010-11. But even with the additional plant capacity of 1 million, Toyota's market share is unlikely to increase from above 18-19^, up from 15.4% in 2006.

[vasudeva]

Here is the data for US domestic sales of cars and light trucks for 2005 (first figure) and 2006 (second figure):

Total 16997203 16559625
GM 4454385, 4065341
Ford 3153875, 2901090
Toyota 2260295, 2542525
DChrysler 2529254,2390585
Honda 1462472,1509358
Nissan 1076669, 1019249
Hyundai-Kia 730863,749822
VW 310915, 329112
BMW 307402,313939
If you wish, I can let you know the model sales figures for these years also.

[vasudeva]

Perhaps people here would have heard about the Harbour Report which is the most authoritative US report on automotive productivity in the US. It is produced by Harbour Consulting. The latest report for 2005 indicates that Nissan US edged out 2004 winner Toyota by a small margin, followed by Honda, GM, Chrysler, and Ford.

Harbour report has pointed out that Toyota, Nissan, Honda, DaimlerChrysler and Hyundai increased their share in a North American market that has not grown, adding Toyota is gaining the equivalent of one assembly plant per year in new market share in North America. Nissan took 28.5 hours (assembly, stamping, powertrain) per unit, Toyota 29.4 hrs, Honda 32.5 hrs, GM 33.19, DC 33.71, and Ford 35.8 hrs.



Nissan enjoyed the 1st place, but the results are skewed somewhat as they do not include Nissan's two Mexican operations. Because labor costs are much lower in Mexico, most plants there tend to be far more labour intensive than in the rest of North America.



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[Rekha]

[quote=iraghava;422344]53 years to be exact!!!

is that not 76 years in sales Mr. iraghava? correct me if thatz wrong.

guys, i heard from many that Toyota surpassed GM long back in passenger car sales and GM was ranking No.1 in automobiles because that included their commercial vehicles too and thats where Toyota also tried hitting GM in later stages. i had this doubt from long time and dont know how far its true. if any of you guys have some info on this, please let me know

[vasudeva]

The sales figure that is quoted to show leadership is car and light truck sales. That may sound like commercial vehicle, but light truck is classified as SUVs, etc. See if these are SUVs/light trucks or commercial vehicles (of course every car/light truck can be a `commercial' vehicle if let out, but commercial generally means trucks, buses, tractors, trailers, etc). Some of the vehicles classified as light trucks sold in the US:

Toyota: 4runner, Highlander, Sienna, Landcruiser,FJ Cruiser
Lexus: GX470, LX470
Suzuki: Vitara
Porsche: Cayenne
Honda: CRV, Odyssey, Pilot

Guess you would have had the idea that the sales used for giving figures is cars and light trucks.