[RedTerrano]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

it has always amazed me that a country full of idiots managed to rule most of the discovered world at one point in time.

+1

Here we are discussing Brexit, shortage of lorry drivers and what not. All of us are wrong.

As per Environment Secretary George Eustice, all of this is the common citizen's fault.

people are buying petrol when they don't need it," he said, predicting that things would "calm down" once anxious people had filled their cars

[Source]

No.
This is not a joke.

[JithinR]

You couldn't make this up with Bollywood script writer

Nigel Farage involved in crash with Van while out searching for fuel

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by som9729

More than that, its about working conditions.
In the UK, truck drivers are looked down upon.
There aren't any good infra options (like toilets, etc) for truckers in the UK
Pay is Low

Therefore, there are many brit & Eastern European truckers in Western EU, where the pay & infra is pretty good.

Moral of the story is not to take blue collar workers for granted.
Lockdown made us Indians realise the value of a maid.

Hopefully, such incidents will make society realise the importance of the avgrage workin' Blue collar guy!

Example - https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-...-kents-5971366

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. The UK has good facilities for truckers and motorists in general - their highway system, including lay-bys and rest stops, is world-class, and certainly better than southern and eastern Europe. I know this from experience of having driven in both areas for countless hours, and having personal friends whose families consist of truck drivers.

If you are not familiar with the UK, you might have missed the subtext of that article. It is contained in one line - massive pay cuts because foreign drivers often work for a lower wage.

The UK workforce does not like blue-collar work. All their lower service rungs - cashiers, shop attendants - and skilled blue-collar labour - carpenters, construction workers, plumbers, electricians, fitters, mechanics, technicians, hair dressers, line cooks, hairdressers - as well as unskilled labour - waiters, housekeepers, cleaners, delivery drivers and riders, general salespeople - are almost always eastern European immigrants. For them, the minimum wage of 8.80 an hour is a small fortune, enabling them to send enough money back home while living in the UK. Most often work two jobs, saving up a decent amount by their standards, whilst living an austere life. It's what Indians did in the Gulf states for decades. Now we've moved up the rungs in the Gulf, supplanted by Pakistanis, Filipinos, and Afghans.

The British are always complaining about how 'foreigners' are 'coming over and taking jobs' and that immigration is bad. That's why Brexit occurred. The truth is that foreigners take the crap jobs that the British don't want to do, like driving lorries or cleaning toilets.

This man has decided that he would rather live at home (either paid for already, or free from the government), and not have to bother with hours on the road, or the few vagaries of highway travel. Bear in mind that trips in the UK are a few hours at most, because the country is tiny. All his talk of overnight difficulties is absolute garbage. Also, the timed weight limits that he's pretending are a punishment - you can't enter a city centre with a vehicle over xxx weight, essentially a truck, during working hours - are the law in almost every city in the world. That's why we all have ring roads and you don't see huge trucks in the middle of Marine Drive or Connaught Place.

[Electromotive]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

The British are always complaining about how 'foreigners' are 'coming over and taking jobs' and that immigration is bad. That's why Brexit occurred. The truth is that foreigners take the crap jobs that the British don't want to do, like driving lorries or cleaning toilets.

Amen! Can't stress this enough.
Be it the Brits or the Americans, they need the immigrants (eastern euros, mexicans respectively) to do the low paying, labor intensive jobs.

They have to keep the pay low otherwise businesses like farming and trucking would be economically nonviable; paying living wages would lead to inflation and then the self-righteous citizens would take to the streets blaming govt. and businesses. Truth is, unless you are exploiting cheap labor, a lot of industries and businesses are just not viable.

All civilizations are built on the back cheap labor obtained via various means such as outright slavery, or creating a caste system, or bread and soup for work if you are in an economic depression (USA 1930s), or something more subtle like economic slavery enforced via debt to keep you running on the hamster wheel/participating in the rat race. Thankfully, we are slowly transitioning towards a slave race of AI enabled machines and robots to do the dirty work.

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by Electromotive

All civilizations are built on the back cheap labor obtained via various means such as outright slavery, or creating a caste system...

A bit off topic, but I have been thinking this for a while now. I cannot think of a single major (world-reaching) civilisation that has not been built on the back of slavery or the abject subjugation and dehumanisation of a significant portion of the populace. The sole possible exception could be the China of today.

As for your comment on AI, we can only hope we remain the masters!

[RedTerrano]

A friends sent this on WA, which made me laugh.
Note: She actually did drive trucks during WWII



As per news reports, UK has roped in their Army drivers to take up the slack.
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bri...er-2021-10-04/

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

I cannot think of a single major (world-reaching) civilisation that has not been built on the back of slavery or the abject subjugation and dehumanisation of a significant portion of the populace. The sole possible exception could be the China of today.

Um, what?

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...d-eye-to-china
https://thediplomat.com/2018/03/chin...labor-problem/

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

The sole possible exception could be the China of today.

Well, we've all read reports on how workers were treated in factories in China during the late 2000s and early 2010s with nets being installed in iPhone factories to prevent suicides (though I believe this has gotten better except for the events described in @Samurai's links). Even the exception conforms to the norm.

I guess the only difference is that China doesn't depend on imported labour but they eventually will, with the ageing demographic (assuming they find migrants will be ready to move there).

Be it the Brits or the Americans, they need the immigrants (eastern euros, mexicans respectively) to do the low paying, labor intensive jobs.

Precisely! The jobs that the immigrants do aren't necessarily the jobs that an a typical Brit, American or Western European will or can do. These jobs either very low-paying or highly skilled jobs (eg. IT workers, Doctors etc.) that has enormous worker shortages. I once heard my friend describing an American guy he met at a pub in Auburn, Alabama who was complaining about how his ophthalmologist is an Indian immigrant while he is unemployed, the catch was that this guy didn't even have a college degree More often than not, the whole conservation behind immigrants stealing jobs is basically just racism.

More proof that immigrants are needed for developed economies to grow? Look at Japan!

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Um, what?

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...d-eye-to-china
https://thediplomat.com/2018/03/chin...labor-problem/

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Well, we've all read reports on how workers were treated in factories in China during the late 2000s and early 2010s with nets being installed in iPhone factories to prevent suicides (though I believe this has gotten better except for the events described in @Samurai's links). Even the exception conforms to the norm.

In my humble opinion, it's disingenuous to compare illegal labour violations - the article clearly states they are illegal - to very legal and systemic brutality and oppression of an entire section of population based on genetic, hereditary factors that are out of an individual's control. The Western world was built on the enslavement of Africans, and the rape of India and China. Many Indian empires were built on the backs of the caste system. Ancient Athenian democracies and the Roman empire were built on a foundation of slavery. All of these were perfectly legal and accepted in their time.

Originally Posted by dragracer567

More often than not, the whole conservation behind immigrants stealing jobs is basically just racism.

Let me fix that for you - "Always, the whole conversation behind immigrants stealing jobs is basically just racism."

[Porcupine]

Read an interesting article about Cristiano Ronaldo's drivers having to wait for 6 hours to fill up his Bentley Flying Spur and Range Rover and having to return without any fuel.

Source: Daily Mail

[Electromotive]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

The sole possible exception could be the China of today.

In my humble opinion, it's disingenuous to compare illegal labor violations - the article clearly states they are illegal - to very legal and systemic brutality and oppression of an entire section of population based on genetic, hereditary factors that are out of an individual's control.

I actually agree with @ viper.
Sure, there has been labor exploitation in Chinese factories but ultimately those workers today have a better quality of life than they would have had otherwise.

We are looking at this colored from western propaganda on human rights and it looks like exploitation, but assembling phones and other machines in a factory is not exactly back breaking labor. Compare this to the labor exploitation during the industrial revolution in western world especially Britain and America. They didn't even flinch sending off children to work in the mines. The west has no right complaining about Chinese labor practices when they have the blood of children on their hands.

What the CCP has achieved is truly remarkable. Pulling a nation of a billion people out of poverty and ensuring a better quality of life for the citizens in less than 40 years is unprecedented. The average Chinese citizen now has a better quality of life than even an upper-middle class Indian.

We Indians try to act superior because "democracy" and "chinese quality" but it is we who are the paper tiger and not China. India can't even manufacture working guns (thanks to PSU culture), nor defend her sovereign territory and yet we are somehow superior because... democracy? China actually has a functioning justice system where even the average citizen can go and get justice and their education system is churning our people with real, applicable skills not just paper degree holders unlike this land of holy bovines. China is reaping demographic dividends, their HDI is improving year after year. What exactly are we doing? Trying to legitimize pseudoscience?

Originally Posted by v1p3r

As for your comment on AI, we can only hope we remain the masters!

Remember the Animatrix? That's how it might start, with S*xBots.

[BlackPearl]

We went on a 1000 plus kilometers trip this weekend and did not face any issue with diesel anywhere. We even did 250 plus kilometers of offroad driving. This issue seems to be overhyped and more of a political agenda!