[RahulNagaraj]

According to a new study, newer cars purchased in the last couple of years have twice as many problems compared to vehicles back in 2010. It is said that these quality issues could get worse in the next few years before they start to get better.

The study states that the rise in problems could be attributed to the pandemic, which resulted in cascading supply chain issues. However, another key reason for the declining quality issues is the introduction of a large number of new technologies installed in the latest cars, increasing the problematic factors that further influence the deteriorating results of the quality tests conducted.



The study also analyses the Initial Quality Study (IQS) and Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) released by J.D.Power every year. The IQS scores and ranks vehicles based on the number of problems experienced per 100 new vehicles during the first 3 months of ownership. The VDS, on the other hand, ranks vehicles according to the problems faced during the first three years of ownership.

Based on JD Power's IQS and VDS, the study states that the number of problems in cars have doubled between 2010 and 2021. The study states that the worst averages seen were models with up to five quality issues per vehicle.

The analysis of the two JD Power studies also showed that over the 12 years of ownership, 43% of the problems occurred in the first three months, with the remaining 57% of problems spread across the next 33 months.

The study also confirmed the reliability of Lexus and Toyota models. It reported that over the 12 years between 2010 and 2021, Lexus models were at least 10% more reliable than any other nameplate. Toyota is also in the mix, alongside brands like Porsche and Buick for the top spot.

Land Rover averaged the highest problems per car in 2021 compared to its cars in 2010. Following it were Chrysler, Volvo and Jeep, respectively.

Source: NewAtlas

Link to Team-BHP news

[ReventonLover]

Supply chain issues notwithstanding, the current levels of electronics and all the other fiddly equipment is setting up the vehicles for increased incidences of failures. We have a Maestro Edge 110 at home, 2016 model. No pesky electronics, carburettor based fuel delivery system - it has never died on us, save a few battery recharge issues due to very low running.

Same year make I have a Classic 500, which underwent one fuel pump change, one wire harness change, one regulator rectifier unit change, 3 batteries and several fuel level units (have forgotten the count) being replaced. I atrtribute these breakdowns due to the more electronics oriented nature of the vehicle.

Yes, the nature of electonics themselves may improve over the next few years, but still the probability of failures will always be higher as the number of monitoring components and other gizmos is further going to increase or stagnate after a point. Till then, it's all upon us to ride this wave of terrible reliability.

[AutoDowntowner]

Well, it is obvious. All brands wants more & more profit. That's it. Having worked in an Automotive OEM, I have seen very cheap level of cost cutting ideas & they have named it as VAVE (Value Addition Value Engineering). Whenever I had put ideas to increase value of a particular system which will add even Rs.0.50 would be rejected but any cheap idea saving the same amount will be selected & that employee would be awarded too.
I remember there was a long serious issue of hose kinking in a UV which would not allow the engine to get started at many times, I suggested to add a Rs.025 spring inside the hose which could have solved the problem forever & the idea was rudely rejected even without testing it. I then asked why do you call this activity as VAVE instead of Cost Cutting? and the boss wasn't happy with my question.
I feel that there would be very less brands such as the Lexus who really cares about better reliability.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Covid and supply chain issues are a most stupid and convenient excuse. It is a fact that overall quality control is going down. I’ll say it’s a combination of

- proliferation of electronics and sensors into just about every system.

- planned obsolescence - shortening life of vehicle.

- rapidly changing regulations and compliance related complications: Euro6 and 7, BS6.2 etc

- change in fuel norms: mandatory ultra low sulphur diesel, E12/15/20, B5 diesel. These fuels are not compatible with older cars and will only lead to issues.

- mass proliferation of electric features. Quality is getting compromised at the altar or costs.

- MBA culture - management ‘teams’ and accounting people have huge say in engineering decisions

[1.2TSI7DSG]

Originally Posted by RahulNagaraj

According to a new study, newer cars purchased in the last couple of years have twice as many problems compared to vehicles back in 2010. It is said that these quality issues could get worse in the next few years before they start to get better.

So if you split the problems between Mechanical & Software, it reveals a very different insight

[Redex]

The result of too many gadgets, gizmos and other junk like touch screens and a whole host of other unnecessary features that most people either don't want or don't need. Manufactures started adding most of these USPs (unique selling points) in a desperate bid to grab market share from competitors after about 2005.
It is no longer possible to buy a cheaper "base" model, or choose which features you wanted as "optional extras". Today's low priced models already have all of the extras that were only available on "top of the range" models 25 years ago.
Sadly, today's buyers seem to have their choice of car decided by what other people think of them, i.e. must have premium looking wheels, biggest touch screen, most expensive audio system, cameras everywhere, self driving features, etc etc.
It's not just cars but everything you can buy. We have a washing machine with 14 main functions all of which can be modified to give an almost infinite number of variations. We only ever use 3 basic washing cycles. A speed controlled electric shaver/razor has more computing power than NASA had to put Neil Armstrong on the moon !!!
All these unnecessary gizmos and electronics are designed to make things unrepairable, prematurely obsolete and disposable. Nothing ever lasts a "lifetime" any more. (A lifetime was considered to be over 20 years).

[raptor_diwan]

Quality problems with newer cars also result from the rush to implement new features and technologies without thorough testing and refinement. When one manufacturer introduces a new technology in their latest model, others want to quickly follow suit to remain competitive and maintain their position in the market, often ignoring to ensure the reliability and durability of these innovations. Electronics are not that bad; they do work well, but they need to be tested thoroughly.

[rrsteer]

Can this also not be attributed to better data collection and reporting method/ tools in recent years especially after 2017 or so when many OEMs started sharing car data?

[sudiptaadhya]

A lot of these are also location specific, ie where the car is manufactured. For example, Mercedes cars manufactured in the US are known to be incredibly unreliable.

The best way to see reliability is by reading the posts on this forum. For example, it seems that Tata and Mahindra still have issues like what they did in the past - however they have many more models now so the volume of complaints are higher. The actual reliability is probably unchanged from 5 years back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAQZeMRrIMY

[dhanushs]

Well.. Doesnt new cars have twice as many parts and systems that can go wrong? I think when you consider that fact, the problems to system ratio might remain same. Or infact be lower too..

[Earthroamer]

Blame has to be put on the market as well. If you look at the car reviews (at least in the Indian car market) there is a lot of emphasis on "features" which provide minimal to zero utility. I have seen reviewers expressing disappointment in a model of the car because it hasn't got an apple car play (like Bluetooth is not enough) or memory seats or sunroof. Many of this non utility features are integrated into electronic central console pad on the dash which is waiting for some software upgrade and somehow market likes it.

[xsrahul]

Allow me to take a divergent viewpoint here for a minute.

Haven’t cars become more reliable as compared to before - meaning they don’t leave you stranded as much as they did before.

Haven’t cars become more fuel efficient and environment conscious vs earlier.

Haven’t cars become more technological advanced vs before - meaning gadgets and tech crammed in to sense everything so that we know if and when there are problems vs getting stranded without knowing it.

If answers to some/all of them are yes - wondering what is being compared as quality problems in the article.

Cost optimisation without considering impact to car reliability is bad and I agree, but I feel brands have come a long way to ensure their customers don’t find it expensive to buy a car as competition is intense while managing bottom line too - no harm in that as that’s a common goal of every profit oriented business.

Take our home brands for example - would any of us be caught in a 2010 or even 2020 version of their car or a latest updated one which is an iterated version of the product.

Happy to hear views of other members on such a view.

Happy (s)miles

[arnieshwartz]

Originally Posted by raptor_diwan

Quality problems with newer cars also result from the rush to implement new features and technologies without thorough testing and refinement. When one manufacturer introduces a new technology in their latest model, others want to quickly follow suit to remain competitive and maintain their position in the market, often ignoring to ensure the reliability and durability of these innovations. Electronics are not that bad; they do work well, but they need to be tested thoroughly.

I'd have to agree with this. New technology always needs time to be tested and shaken down thoroughly, and I know this isnt akin to space ships or aeroplanes, but given how loaded with tech new age cars are, and how reliant consumers are becoming on all this tech, especially driver assistance features, the features better work reliably and consistently. The problem is, software can glitch.

But then there are aspects, the engineering of which one would think has been mastered, like door handles... flush-mounted, retracting door handles are probably more of aesthetics over pure functionality, but why fix something that aint broke? We're told it "reduces drag and improves efficiency." Well, I'd love to hear your thoughts about what you are going to do about side mirrors then.

Plonking a 10 inch touchscreen and having all controls wired to it is courting disaster if the device is prone to hanging. Also, are all service centers staffed with technicians trained to properly diagnose a problem? I dont think so. More often than not, a problem is usually "solved" by replacing (expensive) parts. It's almost as if car manufacturers palm off the problems on the consumers and it makes perfect sense not to buy the first generation of a vehicle or a specific model with some newly introduced fancy tech.

Then there's also consumer demand - panoramic sun roof, connected car tech, electric this and electric that - that manufacturers feel compelled to deliver, or risk falling behind. All these demands must also hit that sweet spot when it comes to pricing, especially in price-sensitive markets. Obviously, there will be cost cutting wherever possible, which could manifest itself in myriad ways.

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by RahulNagaraj

According to a new study, newer cars purchased in the last couple of years have twice as many problems compared to vehicles back in 2010. It is said that these quality issues could get worse in the next few years before they start to get better.

Tata's QC team strongly liked your post.

[SpeedBird]

Originally Posted by RahulNagaraj

According to a new study, newer cars purchased in the last couple of years have twice as many problems compared to vehicles back in 2010. It is said that these quality issues could get worse in the next few years before they start to get better.

Cars are supposed to be mechanical. But now a days, they are more like computer on wheels and thus brings along the toxic corporate culture along with it. Higher management which doesn't even know what is a spark plug, starts making key technical and engineering decisions. This is the key reason why modern cars fail in reliability. Other major factors include:

1. "So-called" environment laws introduced in countries which they think will help in saving environment, forces manufacturers to deviate from their working formula to accomodate the mandatory modification which will go against their working formula.
2. More propriety and custom technology by all manufacturers to keep themselves alive in the game, forces the customers to goto the service centers only and the local garage most of the times cannot help in issues where computer is involved. In these kinds of surveys, local garages and self solved issues are not considered.
3. Most of the younger/coming generations don't know how to maintain a car. They don't even know how to drive a stick shift. For people who have driven stick shifts develop a connection with their cars over the time and know exactly under what circumstances it may fail and involuntarily avoid those situations through muscle memory. There is no possible way you can achieve this if you treat the car like an object.
4. The complexity in automobile engineering has increased drastically which was completely unnecessary. This is mainly due to reaching saturation in the industry with properly working technology and nothing else was left except maintaining it. Therefore, in order to keep the job market flowing, the innovation and engineering started going in backward direction with the help of corporate non-technical managers making all the decisions, most of them knowing there is nothing left to do to improve the industry. The governments across the world also knew it, but let it happen anyway to make a good money out of the inflated prices in the name of computer technology and banned the sales of all non-computer cars cause they simply cannot make 'profits' in surveillance, control and monetory areas with them.

These are the honest pointers for the existing facts about modern cars having more issues and less life span across the world.