[RahulNagaraj]

According to BMW, most owners of the M5 won't ever experience the car at its limit on a race track.

BMW stated that the vast majority of M5 owners never drive their cars around a track. However, there are a few who go at least once. Daniela Schmid, BMW M5 product manager, told a news outlet, "For M5 customers, we know that there is a very small percentage of people who only drive the circuit once. Constantly… I'd say hardly anyone does."



Schmid stated that it is important for the brand that any M model can be driven around a circuit. However, there is also the potential that these cars will be driven every day. The product manager mentioned, "If there are customers who want that, they can do it without problems, but that potential is also available to them when they drive the car every day. For this reason, we still maintain the requirement that the car can be used on the circuit, although we are aware that not many customers actually do this."

The media outlet also shared that the average buyer demographic for the M5 is middle-aged men. Reacting to this, Schmid, stated, "The current [buyer] profile would be that of a middle-aged man, although we also have female customers—but most of them are men, entrepreneurs or high-management who have experience with other M models, maybe M3 or M4, and want an M5 as he gets older."

However, she did mention that the average age in Asian markets has fallen. She stated, "In Asia, there is an interesting change, there are many young people in IT, and software, with a lot of money from a relatively young age. Many have been to the US or Europe, where they got acquainted with the M range, and now they want to buy such a car in their country."

Source: Autocritica

Link to Team-BHP news

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

If anyone is wondering why such a statement - the new M5 is getting a ridiculous amount of backlash for its 2.5 ton weight figure!

It is heavier than several SUVs, pickup trucks and even electric vehicles.

[blueberry]

This is one of those statements which no responsible brand manager should make.
There are some things, which although true, shouldn't be acknowledged.

The positioning for the M performance cars have always been "Race cars for the road"; with the emphasis on them being race cars.
Statements like these portray a feeling of the manufacturer themselves not seeing the M5 as a race car anymore; diminishing the image in the eyes of owners who purchased this specifically because they wanted a race car (but in a more useable package).

2.5 ton kerb weight is a short term problem, which would be fixed in the next generation. Not prudent to go around tarnishing a long term image for that.

[ajmat]

The M5 is not track oriented in the first place. During an M experience, I tried the M6 which is based on the 5 and one could feel the bulk. Mind you the pace car was an M5 in expert hands. The M3 and M4 were a different kettle of fish.

The M5 is a great road car for sure!

[ProLearner]

I am really surprised to see a product manager for an M car make such statements.
There is no excuse for the M5 to weight almost as much as an i7 m60 xDrive. For reference, their top luxury car, the current 740i weights lesser, and so does the x5.

It is an M car, and although making it a hybrid might be necessary for emission norms, they have reduced the power output of the V8, and the new M5 is slower than the old, even with the electric setup as per their specs, which makes the electrification redundant for a performance car.

Let's see how the market reacts as the numbers will indicate and BMW will know if their marketing and statements worked or not. But the recent example with the C63 where the company had to accept their mistake with the 4 cylinder engine, I hope there are improvements with development of performance cars with respect to emission norms.

On another note, the F90 LCI M5 and M5 CS owners must feel happy, getting to own one of the best modern M5s, and probably the last ones with pure ICE power.

[quad_exhaust]

I wasn't much surprised at the fact that not a lot of owners take their M5s to the track. I never thought of it as a car that was built keeping the track in mind. But, it's pretty unethical of them to try and justify the dramatic increase of the weight of the car. The M badge seems to be loosing its charm.

[FlankerFury]

Originally Posted by blueberry

The positioning for the M performance cars have always been "Race cars for the road"; with the emphasis on them being race cars.

I understand that performance arms of nearly all carmakers market their cars as 'race cars for the road', but does that hold true in case of the M5?
I can see the case for M4, M6 and M8 considering that all these cars race in various championships.


https://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/...mw-m8-gte.html


https://www.carscoops.com/2024/05/bm...-racing-debut/


https://www.hotcars.com/a-detailed-l...he-bmw-m6-gt3/

[Sahil]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

If anyone is wondering why such a statement - the new M5 is getting a ridiculous amount of backlash for its 2.5 ton weight figure!

It is heavier than several SUVs, pickup trucks and even electric vehicles.

Even with all that extra power on paper, it translates to almost the same performance figures as the outgoing version. I wonder how a lightweight CS version will be made with all the heavy batteries.
While BMW's blunder is not as bad as MB's with the C63 AMG, but I think some damage control needs to be done by launching a Competition pack or CS edition quickly.
I have always been a M5 fan and preferred every new version over the previous gen. This is the first time, I would pick the previous version over this new one.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by RahulNagaraj

She stated, "In Asia, there is an interesting change, there are many young people in IT, and software, with a lot of money from a relatively young age. Many have been to the US or Europe, where they got acquainted with the M range, and now they want to buy such a car in their country."

I can almost hear this said in the thick accent of a German grandma.

[sharmanova]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

If anyone is wondering why such a statement - the new M5 is getting a ridiculous amount of backlash for its 2.5 ton weight figure!

It is heavier than several SUVs, pickup trucks and even electric vehicles.

+1

BMW M5 F90 Kerb weight: 1865 kgs
BMW M5 G90 Kerb weight: 2445 kgs

The extra ~600 kg is because of the Plug-in-Hybrid system in the G90 M5. Heck, the new M5 weighs as much as a Ford F-150 Pickup Truck!

Even though the G90 M5 has 77 more bhp and 250NM more torque than the F90 M5, it accelerates 0-100 in 3.5s vs the F90's 3.4s .

[84.monsoon]

Manufacturers face a tight rope walk in building performance cars for the future. On the one extreme staying with the old formula of purely ICE engined cars would mean that it will be increasing a difficult to squeeze out the performance expected by the buyers in every new generation. If you look at the last few years of the ICE era, performance improvements have been on a linear scale, until EV and plug-in hybrid Technologies came along. It would be hard for manufacturers to remain competitive without some form of electric assistance.

One option is to add self-charging strong hybrid tech such as what Toyota offers. While it would be possible to temporarily boost performance, with say a 2-3 KWHr battery and some strong hybrid technology, the battery would need to be recharged from the same engine, and so sustained performance, say on a track or a longish highway drive, would be difficult to achieve. On the other hand, there is minimal weight penalty, as the batteries and motors that need to be added are tiny.

Going to pure electric would provide incredibale performance, as evidenced by Tesla's supercars, just by strapping on bigger motors and/or more motors that drive each axle or wheel separately. However, there is a massive weight penalty to get reasonable range while still providing good performance. As motor sizes and numbwr of motors go up, the battery having to be larger and heavier.

Plug-in hybrids offer perhaps the best balance for these cars, as the electric assistance can be sustained for a longer period of time and can be adjusted based on driving use cases. For a fast 30 minute run on the track, maximum electric boost assistance can the provided to the ICE engine, while for a long road trip, electric assistance can be limited to the times when the car is accelerating. Regeneration can also help extend battery life. The penalty is that even a 20-30 KWHr battery will add significant weight as we see in the M5's case. Also once the battery is fully exhausted, say on a long road trip, the ICE enigine has to lug around the dead weight of the battery, in addition to the rest of the car. I bet the new M5's 0-100 times will be much lower if the run is done after an hour or two of continous driving without recharging the battery. Not only is there zero boost from thre electric motor, but also the weight that needs to be moved is much higher than the previous generation M5 due to the batteries and motors that are useless at that point.

So it is between devil, thr deep sea and the hungry lion when it comes to enhancing performance to the next level for cars such as the M5. One has to appreciate that BMW still gave us the full blown V8 in the car, while many other manufacturers are downsizing engines when it comes to the hybrid versions of their cars.

[W140SKlasse]

Yes, most BMW M5s are never tracked, but they're just trying to whitewash over the new M5 and M5 touring's enormous kerb weight. I feel that, if the new hybrid systems are going to result in increased weight, manufacturers should at least ensure the car has enough performance to outrun the previous generation car. I'm not sure BMW has done enough in this case.
The AMG hybrids do not have a reduced power output from their V8s/ I4s. If I had to pick between the C63 and this M5, I would take the C63. Yes it loses the V8, and it is certainly not as special as the previous gen C63 due to that. But objectively, it will likely be much better to drive due to the nearly 400 kg reduction in kerb weight, and with comparable acceleration times.

However, overall, I would rather go with a previous generation pure ICE car if I had to buy a performance sedan/wagon. These hybrids are first gen cars, still in somewhat nascent stages of development, while the cars which preceded them were the best of their generation, perfected. To give an analogy, one could say that these hybrids are akin to the Ferrari 512BB whereas the previous gen cars were akin to the Ferrari GTB/4 Daytona. The Daytona was the last front-engined 12 cylinder flagship during Enzo's era while the 512 BB was the first mid engined 12 cylinder flagship Ferrari ever made. The 512 may have been faster but for me the Daytona was just better.

[ZenMaster]

Ladies and gentlemen...welcome to the era of Brand dilution and environmental regs. compliance.

This is what happens when extreme blanket regulations are applied for CO2 targets. This is going to happen everywhere. Not just the M5.

The only way to that manufacturers can skirt around this is by selling a ton of electric cars or buying Carbon credits or....by making a 2.5 Ton Plug-in Hybrid that consumes as much material as a full size Pickup Truck to make and gives mileage like a hatchback.

Don't really know if it's really good for the environment, but it sure meets the CAFE targets I guess.

Interesting fact : The heavier the corporate average "weight" of the manufacturer, the easier are their CAFE targets. i.e. OEMs that make heavier cars have larger CO2 targets which makes it easier for them to meet them.

For example, in India against all our common sense expectations, Maruti Suzuki is the OEM with the most stringent targets, because their cars are the lightest leading to the lowest Corporate Avg. Weight. So when the time comes for the next set of lower CAFE' 3 targets from 2027, OEMs having light vehicles will sweat the most because it will be very difficult for them to achieve these targets without selling much EVs.

The Japanese and Koreans, will need to Hybridize or electrify their line-up ASAP. On the other Hand, Tata and even Mahindra are ready with their EV arsenal while also having less stringent CAFE targets because they make heavier vehicles