[Rtech]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKk...>TIMMESSSS UP! Drop your mice! Lemme just say that I was equally surprised by both the last place as well as the first place cars! If it were my $70,000 (hahahaha), it'll be the Audi A8 any day.

Here are the results, courtesy - car and driver, December 2003.
iiiiiiiiiiin LAST PLACE....THE surprise...
Sixth: Mercedes-Benz S430

Highs: The clever shifter that's always in manumatic, the way the wood drapes in ribbons across the dash and doors, the lusty note of the V-8.

Lows: Obtuse HVAC controls, gimme-a-minute attitude of the automatic (the brakes, too), awkward driving position.

The Verdict: Fading talent at an ambitious price.

Fifth: Volkswagen Phaeton

Highs: Queen Mary detailing inside, jewelrylike instrument cluster, silent operation of powered wood shutters that conceal parts of the dash.

Lows: So many seat buttons chasing such an elusive comfort spot, body quivers follow each bump, having to agree with VW lawyers before making basic control adjustments.

The Verdict: You ain't seen it all until you've beheld a $70,000 VW.

Fourth: Audi A8L

Highs: Looks large and in charge, like Mr. Universe in a tuxedo; eye-pleasing interior, too.

Lows: A bit of a ruffian over bumps, followed by too many jiggles in the body structure; plenty of road noise, too.

The Verdict: Beautiful to look at, but disappointing in conversation.

Third: BMW 745i

Highs: Big power when you want it, poise on the back roads, unlimited legroom up front.

Lows: In-your-face contrariness of ordinary cockpit controls, bad-dream location of steering-wheel shift buttons, pulling our gaze off the road to look at the &@*# screen.

The Verdict: So relentlessly high-tech even the dashboard wood looks virtual.

Second: Jaguar XJ8

Highs: Confident in its Jaguarness; light and agile and quick on its feet, with a cockpit computer that knows its place.

Lows: Steering gets nervous in rainy high-speed cruising, there's a longish pedal stroke before serious braking begins, cockpit is rather intimate for such a big car.

The Verdict: Traditional Jaguar flavor expressed in 21st-century alloys.

First: Lexus LS430

Highs: Gorgeous interior details, whipped-cream ride, silky shifts, rear-seat accouterments to dazzle the most demanding potentate.

Lows: Tires eager to squeal, brakes eager to make big whoa instead of deft modulations, never very involving on the back roads.

The Verdict: The next step up from silk underwear.

[ajmat]

Wow, what a result - however note that american tastes( people who cruise/ ride) are different from europeans (people who drive). For me -would be a toss up between the Audi, BMW and Jag - need to drive to finally decide

[GTO]

Told ya I spoke too early on this one. Boy, heres another sucker to the Lexus charm.

Jokes apart, the one killer with owning a premium luxury car is the ownership costs factor and I am certain that C&D factored this in their evaluation. The Germans suffer big time from electronic gremlins, as well as recent doses of unreliability.

The Lexus is typically Toyota in its maintainence, ownership and trouble-free experience.

But still...??

GTO

[GTO]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Wow, what a result - however note that american tastes( people who cruise/ ride) are different from europeans (people who drive).

Very true, with those eternally straight freeway rides, not too many Americans care about handling...and the SUV trend does reflect that, dosent it?

But even the Yankee tastes are changing...They want performance oriented cars too but are a little off from how the Europeans are toward razor sharp responsiveness

GTO

[S350L-E240]

Can we have the same results from some european magazine? AMS? Autobild?

My choice is still the S and 7 and never in my car buying process wud i even consider Lexus, thats ignorant i know, but thats me!

[Rtech]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]in my car buying process wud i even consider Lexus, thats ignorant i know, but thats me!

Spoken like a pure Mercedes Benz Owner!!! The thing is, buyers in this segment want prestige, something the Lexus, and the VW too, really can't give.

But boy do I love that A8...just look at those wheels!!!!!

[_Crazi4Speed_]

For me no matter what a stupid magazine like CD say...(they say all kinds of stuff timing SL65 @ 3.3 or 3.6 secs hehe! thats far from reality)

760LI
S600
A8L 6.0
Quattraporte
LS430
XJ8
Phat what oen..what is this?? but I know it is suppose to be a good car..but naaah!! man not a 80-90k car from VW, its peoples car not a luxury car

oh btw i knew the results cuz i read the same article 10-15 min before he posted it, I was going to do the same post, but guess he beat me to it* *

L8r

[manticore]

the phaeton is really a solidly built car with usual vw quality, nice interiors and all the usual luxury trappings......but then in this range of cars the brand counts a lot, and thats where vw fails...and comes last....at least for me.

lexus also make very fine cars.....add beautiful, quiet interiors, nice engines and etc etc.

the new XJ looks as beautiful and graceful as the the old-gen, but it's much improved. plus its got the hallowed jaguar tag attached to it.

audi, BMW and MB stand for the epitome of german engineering. all three of them have sweet engines and nice interiors too. the audi looks better from outside, the merc comes second......and the new 7 loses out on design.

so i'd choose between the merc, audi, lexus and jag. tough choice indeed.

[Powerslave]

Yes, these ratings are done keeping in mind the American driving conditions as well the mentality. Reliability matters a lot when you're doing a cross country trip, and imagine having your super luxury car sitting on the shoulder when the rest of the world goes by !
I'm late to this poll, but I guess I would have chosen the 7-Series as the worst and Jag XJ8 (maybe even the S-Class) as the best. Believe me, the XJ VDP rides like the wind !

[manticore]

oh boy!! dont the A8 and the XJ look gorgeous in the pix?? i'm leavin before i have this irresistible urge to lick the screen

[VTEC11]

Make no mistake, as far as "Luxury Cars" go the LS430 is truly top notch and world class car. I've read in many magazines that the LS430 is unbeatable for smoothness, refinement, quality, and reliablity.

Also, considered a flat out bargain with a starting price is "just" $55,000.

[VTEC11]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (rtech @ May 13 2004,18:35)]

The thing is, buyers in this segment want prestige, something the Lexus, and the VW too, really can't give.

That's just not true. Lexus has plenty of prestige here in the states. Not too bad considering they only started in this segment around 1990 or so.

And i'm not even a big lexus fan, there cars are a little too soft for me. But the LS430 is truly an exceptional machine.