[devarshi84]

SAAB should survive but on their own. This will let them do what they are best at. I hope they come out of it.

GM and Chrysler if survive will be much smaller than the footprint they have had until 2008.

[GTO]

Saabs cars used to have an identity till a little time back, but today, they are too indistinct to survive in the fiercely competitive market. Let me ask you this : What is their USP? Why would anyone buy a SAAB over another brand?

This is a trend in the making. Smaller car manufacturers or brands with zero USP / niche have slowly started getting wiped out, and only the larger manufacturers - with their inherent engineering, distribution & marketing strengths - will survive. Someone once said that, by 2025, there will be only 5 - 6 big car manufacturers dominating the automotive scene.

[mxx]

Originally Posted by carboy

The US bailout is probably one of the biggest scams of the world - essentially it says you don't have to be good.

Too bad you dont understand the facts.

If the big 3 shut shop, thousands of employees will lose their jobs. That is direct jobs. Then comes the suppliers who will also have to downsize. Same for companies providing services to the 3 giants. Unemployment increases , demand decrease. Result : recession will be much much worse.
So, the bailout is pure logic, if not pure economics.

The above is just in the context of american economy. I have not mentioned the component suppliers(and their employees) in developing countries including India that will be affected.

Moreover, the only fault of Big 3 was they were concentrating too much on their home country, which was their biggest market. And their products were not as good as the europeans or the japs, but was not very bad either. But the oil shock and the change in the economic scenario came too fast than anyone expected. The Big 3 could not change that fast considering its size.

In short the bailout is good for eveyone in and outside USA.

I was, is , and probably never be a fan of american cars, baring a few exceptions like some of cadillac sedans. So, what I have written here is not in support of the Big 3 autos. But, this is a fact that there is more good if there companies survive. And moreover who knows, now that they have learned the lesson, they might bring in some good products once out of the current crisis.


Completely out of topic, but giving carboy some facts here

Originally Posted by carboy

Are you joking?
Neither Tata nor Mallya have any money. They have been spending money like drunken sailors & now are seeing the effects of it.
Tata Motors hasn't been paying their vendors in time.
Mallya is looking for someone to buy a stake in his liquor business.

If you know anything about the current recession, you will understand that it was totally unexpected and quick.
At the time of these M&A deals, the scenario was different, in any case these were long term strategies than for immediate profits. BTW, Mallya is looking for selling stake, not because he is broke, it is because he needs funds for his airline business. There are not drunken sailors but sailors trying to control the ship in a storm.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by mxx

Too bad you dont understand the facts.

Too bad you didn't read my post fully.
Here it is again.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intern...ml#post1182647

I am quoting the relevant part again

Don't worry. The sun will rise the next day. And the world will function.
Even if GM & Chrysler file Chapter 11 bankruptcy, it doesn't mean they will shut shop. They can still continue making
& selling cars. Actually it will be better for them, because Chapter 11 will allow them to renogiate Union & other contracts
& become more efficient.
Even if they do file Chapter 7 instead of Chapter 11, even then it's not the end. They still have plants which will be sold
& cars will continue being made & sold. And not all jobs will be lost.
On the other hand, bailing them out essentially means letting them continue to function like they doing currently - i.e.
another doomsday few years down the line.

[mxx]

Originally Posted by carboy

Too bad you didn't read my post fully.
Here it is again.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intern...ml#post1182647

I am quoting the relevant part again

I did read that fully. specially the last part. All I am trying to say is that the bailout is best in the current scenario. Any other way, there will be huge downsizing.
I think you too should understand the context of my post which is very clear.

And please dont make this a one on one.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by mxx

I did read that fully. specially the last part. All I am trying to say is that the bailout is best in the current scenario. Any other way, there will be huge downsizing.
I think you too should understand the context of my post which is very clear.

And please dont make this a one on one.

You don't refute any of my points.
You say GM & Chrysler will end up shutting job & all jobs will be lost.
My post explains why that will not be the case.

Sure there will be some downsizing & there will also be renegotiation of
contracts. But those are the things which will prevent GM from failing again
2 years down the line.

I am not making it one on one. I am just saying the bailout is political
thing. The UAW is a democratic vote block. If GM files Chapter 7, the UAW
gets screwed. Hence the bailout to help the UAW.

[ajmat]

Basically, GM paid to adopt SAAB, stripped off its heritage and tossed the poor orphan on the streets. They do not have the finances to mercifully kill the poor brand.

SAAB on its own - it's DNA was the aero-engineering innovations that went into the car. SAAB being cut from the aero-space maker, makes it a non entity.

SAAB was a poor consolation prize for GM for failing to buy Jaguar. The difference is that when Ford bought Volvo, they respected its strengths and Volvo even became its centre for exellence for safety. GM over ran SAAB, underfunded it and the rest is history

[Thil]

US Bailout Packages are just postponing the inevitable ..The only real thing which can save the Big 3 are SALES ..SALES..SALES and in this economy they are not going to see that....so no matter how much money Govt pump into these mega corp..it's going to be a waste . the better approach would be to utilize the recession time to restructure the companies in to effective organizations

[devarshi84]

what should've been

YouTube - Saab XWD 9-3 turbo x

[sidindica]

R.I.P.: General Motors Announces the Death of SAAB - Carscoop

Just moment ago, General Motors announced that it will be closing down its money-losing SAAB unit after concluding that the sale of the Swedish brand to tiny Dutch supercar maker, Spyker Cars, could not be completed in the time frame that had been set.
"Despite the best efforts of all involved, it has become very clear that the due diligence required to complete this complex transaction could not be executed in a reasonable time. In order to maintain operations, Saab needed a quick resolution. We regret that we were not able to complete this transaction with Spyker Cars," said GM Europe President Nick Reilly.

General Motors had turned to Spyker Cars after a failed effort to sell the Swedish brand to a consortium led by the Koenigsegg Group AB.
The Detroit automaker said that Saab will continue to honor warranties, while providing service and spare parts to current owners around the world.

"We will work closely with the Saab organization to wind down the business in an orderly and responsible manner," Reilly said. "This is not a bankruptcy or forced liquidation process. Consequently, we expect Saab to satisfy debts including supplier payments, and to wind down production and the distribution channel in an orderly manner while looking after our customers."

What GM did not say, is what's going to happen with the Swedish firm's upcoming models such as the all-new 9-5 sedan and the Cadillac SRX-based, 9-4x.

Earlier this week, the Detroit automaker revealed that it had come to an agreement with China's BAIC for the sale of the intellectual rights of the current-generation Saab 9-5 (not the 2010 model shown in Frankfurt) and certain 9-3 models.

Saab follows the same fate as several other GM-owned brands such as Pontiac and Saturn which were also axed.

[aah78]

Saturn was just becoming adventurous with the Sky roadster.
Pontiac brought over the Commodore from Australia.
Saab makes pleasant driving cars - nothing outstanding and overpriced compared to the competition but well built and worth considering.

GM shut them all down but they're still fuelling Cadillac and Buick?
Buick should have been first in line to go after Oldsmobile.

[jerry can]

Well, it might not be all over after all. There's hope yet...
Latest: BBC News - Spyker submits a new Saab offer to General Motors

[devarshi84]

2 years and still on life support. With a lot of drama from the Chinese and the Russians. Does it make sense for any Indian company to invest in Saab?

[volkman10]

Swedish debt authority poised to seize SAAB assests!

If things don't rapidly start falling in Saab's favor, it's seeming more and more likely that the Swedish automaker may be at the tail end of its ninth life. The Swedish Enforcement Agency has reportedly contacted various banks holding assets for the troubled company, informing them that they may legally seize those assets in an effort to pay back roughly $625,000 owed to Saab's unpaid suppliers.

That might not seem like a lot of money, but that's only the sum that suppliers have requested the Swedish debt authority collect on their behalf that is immediately outstanding. The actual figure that Saab owes and employees is significantly higher.

As always, Saab's response is that it is working to secure further financing, but the automaker's fortunes seem to be getting more and more bleak with every passing day.

Source: Reuters

[devarshi84]

How many lives does a cat have? Nine..... :P

If Saab continues for 3 more months, I will term it a miracle.

Of late there was news of leasing the factory to secure financing.

OT: http://www.autoblog.com/photos/saab-...hoto-3928643//

I always find Saab designs to be the best in the segment compared to BMW/Audi/Benz/Volvo. The car has IQON Android based UI system and a 1.6 engine sourced from BMW.