Sayonara to S2000

Mpower · 29th March 2009, 18:51

First they killed the V6 NSX, then killed the V10 NSX replacement even before it was born, then pulled out of F1 and now Honda has announced that they will stop the S2000 and there will be no replacement. As much as enthuiasts love Honda they dont seem to love us back.

Of course, they will blame poor sales, but Honda has not done enough to keep the customer interested.

Some years ago I had the opportunity to drive this baby. Revs to 8000 like a superbike engine and makes your hair stand up.

Sayonara to the S2000! beautiful little pocket rocket.

FlyingSpur · 29th March 2009, 19:03

I loved the NSX. They didn't do enough for it, I think. And then they killed a star.

equinox22 · 29th March 2009, 19:09

That is a real shame. I hope Honda does not keep getting rid of their sporty cars. They really are a joy to drive. You need to work hard but the results always bring a smile on your face.

avishar · 29th March 2009, 19:12

Thats a sad piece of news.I think the Singhania's owned a S2000.I like the design.Honda had announced plans to replace the NSX,but now its seems those plans have come to nought.
Any news about the Honda HSC concept??

aaggoswami · 29th March 2009, 20:56

I think I read about the demise of S2000 some time ago. Its bad news. That 2.0 had 120+bhp/ltr specific output that too quite sometime ago. Its was as bike engine was in there under the hood. And it never hesitated to revv.
From what I have read, it had poor bottom end, but from midrange, it was a machine bigger cars were afraid of. There were several after market upgrades available, but most of them were just able to strengthen the already very strong pull at top end.

Later on the engine capacity was increased to 2.2 with the same power ouput. I read that torque was better. A nice enthusiast machine.
The engine was also of a very high quality and people loved to work upon its mill as it was a good base to start working.

Harbir · 29th March 2009, 21:22

i have driven the S2000 a number of times and came within minutes of signing the papers on a yellow 2005 model that was displayed at the 2005 Detroit Autoshow before it was sent to a dealer for sale.

That having been said, I am not particularly upset because I favor Mazda's approach and their roadster is going strong. In fact the next one, the ND (NA, NB, NC are the three generations of the MX-5 upto present), having been freed from the constraints imposed by the Ford accounting people is slated to drop down to 1000kg weight and also reduced in cost slightly.

The S2000 never really caught on in a big way with the enthusiast community. It was handily outsold not just by the cheaper MX-5 but also by the far pricier Porsche Boxster. its a brilliant car, but also one of limited versatility and therefore limited audience. It has neither the easily accessible, ultra communicative, low price fun factor of the MX-5, nor does it have the effortless, supple, free flowing capabilities of the Boxster.

Honda made some mistakes with the s2000. It had a narrow power, concentrated at the top, and too much vehicle weight for the yawning gap in engine output between idle and the start of the power band. Its steering was very sharp, but never had a communicative feel. The intial spring/damper/bushing set up resulted in a car that was not nearly fluid feeling enough in the back roads and was also prone to spooky snap oversteer when the driver made a mistake. Later they tuned it to improve the road feel and kerb the tendency for snap oversteer, but it never stood as an ideal chassis set up, the way everything from 3 series BMWs to MX-5s to Boxsters do.

A few magazine editors with the racing expereince to be able to exploit the S2000's set up on the race track raved about it, and so did the super passionate S2000 enthusiasts who love their cars for good reason, but the car was never able to appeal to a wider sports car audience.

Shan2nu · 29th March 2009, 23:03

High time.....

The S2000 was a good car when it was launched but time has caught up with it.

Forget the rivals, ever since the FD2 Civic Type R has come into production, the S2000 has been humiliated on track on several occasions.

When Honda realised this, they tried to revive the S2000 spirit by introducing the S2000 Type S / CR, but even that couldn't match up to the FWD Civic. And to make things worse, along came the Honda Civic Mugen RR.

YouTube - CIVIC FD2 VS S2000

YouTube - Mugen Civic RR vs S2000.flv

YouTube - FR vs FF Battle

YouTube - 2007 Nissan 350Z vs. Honda NSX vs. Civic type R vs

What Honda needs now is an S3000!!

Shan2nu

Rehaan · 30th March 2009, 00:59

Darn. That is sad news indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower

......
Some years ago I had the opportunity to drive this baby. Revs to 8000 like a superbike engine and makes your hair stand up.

9000 for the 2.0L and 8200 for the 2.2L if im not mistaken. Quite insane for a car, not to mention that specific output of 120bhp/L for the 2.0!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by avishar

....
Any news about the Honda HSC concept??

That is the V10 NSX (successor) that Mpower mentioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

....From what I have read, it had poor bottom end, but from midrange, it was a machine bigger cars were afraid of. There were several after market upgrades available, but most of them were just able to strengthen the already very strong pull at top end...

Yeah, it is (was?) nothing special to drive lower in the revrange, but the top-end is addictive. I had posted a review on the forum years back.

There were a lot of bolt on kits etc, but i dont think it was because the engine was such a dream to work on -- but more like the fact that a lot of owners would be the type to modify their s2ks. The superchargers were popular.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

....What Honda needs now is an S3000!!...

Interesting thought, they really need something out there that is an independant enthusiast car, and not some souped up version of their usual fare.

However, unfortunately i dont see this happening in the next few years.

cya
R

Nitin · 30th March 2009, 03:02

AH..thats not good! There had been a lot of speculation on how the next S2000 would look,and there was some hype about a 2010 model.

Mpower · 30th March 2009, 06:26

True ..like every car this one has some flaws but I didnt want to focus on those while writing the obituiary

A big one I noticed was scuttle shake when you are pulling Gs on a bumpy track. The steering feel could not match the likes of Mini, 3series or Mazdas.

The biggest one was the price. Fully loaded it crossed 40K which is too much for someone moving up from a Civic. Simply wasn't worth it. I feel they should have never done that expensive engine in the first place. A JDM K20 was making 225 bhp out of the box 5 years ago. They could have simply used it and knocked the price down. Another cost factor was that it was built in the same plant as the NSX.

They could have also done a 150 bhp base engine with price cut to go after the Miata. Of course they need to fix all the other handling and stiffness issues. The Miata crowd would have never liked the styling but anyway..

They could have done a lightweight fixed hard top version like the Cayman.

In todays market, a car needs some changes every few years...it just cant keep selling for ever. Honda simply ignored it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbir

The S2000 never really caught on in a big way with the enthusiast community. It was handily outsold not just by the cheaper MX-5 but also by the far pricier Porsche Boxster. its a brilliant car, but also one of limited versatility and therefore limited audience. It has neither the easily accessible, ultra communicative, low price fun factor of the MX-5, nor does it have the effortless, supple, free flowing capabilities of the Boxster.

Honda made some mistakes with the s2000. It had a narrow power, concentrated at the top, and too much vehicle weight for the yawning gap in engine output between idle and the start of the power band. Its steering was very sharp, but never had a communicative feel. The intial spring/damper/bushing set up resulted in a car that was not nearly fluid feeling enough in the back roads and was also prone to spooky snap oversteer when the driver made a mistake. Later they tuned it to improve the road feel and kerb the tendency for snap oversteer, but it never stood as an ideal chassis set up, the way everything from 3 series BMWs to MX-5s to Boxsters do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

Forget the rivals, ever since the FD2 Civic Type R has come into production, the S2000 has been humiliated on track on several occasions.

What Honda needs now is an S3000!!

To be fair the Mugen is a tuner special but even then I dont view that as a big humiliation. An M3 can whip a Z4 but still the Z4 sells to a different audience. That engine simply puts a grin on your face.

S3000?, I say just bring back the original 3.0 NSX with fresh styling.

ananthkamath · 30th March 2009, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rehaan

There were a lot of bolt on kits etc, but i dont think it was because the engine was such a dream to work on -- but more like the fact that a lot of owners would be the type to modify their s2ks. The superchargers were popular.

Are you serious...I would rate it as one of the easiest engines to tune given the fact that free or cheap tuning solutions are available (crome, hondata etc), and the engine will take stupid amounts of boost without needing internals. Honda built the engine to have OEM durability, so the rods are really, really beefy, considering the rod loads are really high at the stock redline.

Very few cars on the street have the testicular fortitude to pull on a GT35R Honda, much less an S2000.

Shan2nu · 30th March 2009, 09:29

Quote:

To be fair the Mugen is a tuner special but even then I dont view that as a big humiliation.

The mugen came later on. The CTR had already done the damage by then. Infact Mugen is releasing another version of the Civic now, called the Mugen RR Advanced. This will have 260ps and has already beaten the lap record of the NSX R at Tsukuba Japan.

YouTube - Mugen RR Advanced Concept - 1:04 @Tsukuba

Quote:

S3000?, I say just bring back the original 3.0 NSX with fresh styling.

And Honda could do just that. They have approached Mugen to design an NSX RR, which could have the same 3.2 ltr V6 engine with the power now bumped to 360-380bhp.

The chassis has also been worked on, to give it that wide GT look.

2009 NSX RR - Page 1

YouTube - MUGEN NSX RR - Tokyo Auto Salon 2009

PS : I just hope they aren't serious about that interior.

Shan2nu

hillram · 30th March 2009, 10:24

I never liked Honda's business sense nor their philosphies.Even back in 1991 they axed the winning F1 Team of Senna / Prost and later regretted and now the same phenomenon.No wonder their cars dont perform.

29th March 2009, 18:51	#1
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,730 Times View My Garage	Sayonara to S2000 First they killed the V6 NSX, then killed the V10 NSX replacement even before it was born, then pulled out of F1 and now Honda has announced that they will stop the S2000 and there will be no replacement. As much as enthuiasts love Honda they dont seem to love us back. Of course, they will blame poor sales, but Honda has not done enough to keep the customer interested. Some years ago I had the opportunity to drive this baby. Revs to 8000 like a superbike engine and makes your hair stand up. Sayonara to the S2000! beautiful little pocket rocket. Last edited by Mpower : 29th March 2009 at 18:53.
	() Thanks

29th March 2009, 19:03	#2
FlyingSpur Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 3,934 Thanked: 1,422 Times View My Garage	I loved the NSX. They didn't do enough for it, I think. And then they killed a star.
	() Thanks

29th March 2009, 19:09	#3
equinox22 BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago/Pune Posts: 165 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	That is a real shame. I hope Honda does not keep getting rid of their sporty cars. They really are a joy to drive. You need to work hard but the results always bring a smile on your face.
	() Thanks

29th March 2009, 19:12	#4
avishar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: kolkata/bangalore,india Posts: 2,901 Thanked: 4,143 Times	Thats a sad piece of news.I think the Singhania's owned a S2000.I like the design.Honda had announced plans to replace the NSX,but now its seems those plans have come to nought. Any news about the Honda HSC concept??
	() Thanks

29th March 2009, 20:56	#5
aaggoswami Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vadodara Posts: 4,982 Thanked: 2,931 Times	I think I read about the demise of S2000 some time ago. Its bad news. That 2.0 had 120+bhp/ltr specific output that too quite sometime ago. Its was as bike engine was in there under the hood. And it never hesitated to revv. From what I have read, it had poor bottom end, but from midrange, it was a machine bigger cars were afraid of. There were several after market upgrades available, but most of them were just able to strengthen the already very strong pull at top end. Later on the engine capacity was increased to 2.2 with the same power ouput. I read that torque was better. A nice enthusiast machine. The engine was also of a very high quality and people loved to work upon its mill as it was a good base to start working.
	() Thanks

29th March 2009, 21:22	#6
Harbir BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 920 Thanked: 1,025 Times View My Garage	i have driven the S2000 a number of times and came within minutes of signing the papers on a yellow 2005 model that was displayed at the 2005 Detroit Autoshow before it was sent to a dealer for sale. That having been said, I am not particularly upset because I favor Mazda's approach and their roadster is going strong. In fact the next one, the ND (NA, NB, NC are the three generations of the MX-5 upto present), having been freed from the constraints imposed by the Ford accounting people is slated to drop down to 1000kg weight and also reduced in cost slightly. The S2000 never really caught on in a big way with the enthusiast community. It was handily outsold not just by the cheaper MX-5 but also by the far pricier Porsche Boxster. its a brilliant car, but also one of limited versatility and therefore limited audience. It has neither the easily accessible, ultra communicative, low price fun factor of the MX-5, nor does it have the effortless, supple, free flowing capabilities of the Boxster. Honda made some mistakes with the s2000. It had a narrow power, concentrated at the top, and too much vehicle weight for the yawning gap in engine output between idle and the start of the power band. Its steering was very sharp, but never had a communicative feel. The intial spring/damper/bushing set up resulted in a car that was not nearly fluid feeling enough in the back roads and was also prone to spooky snap oversteer when the driver made a mistake. Later they tuned it to improve the road feel and kerb the tendency for snap oversteer, but it never stood as an ideal chassis set up, the way everything from 3 series BMWs to MX-5s to Boxsters do. A few magazine editors with the racing expereince to be able to exploit the S2000's set up on the race track raved about it, and so did the super passionate S2000 enthusiasts who love their cars for good reason, but the car was never able to appeal to a wider sports car audience.
	() Thanks

30th March 2009, 03:02	#9
Nitin Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,294 Thanked: 20 Times View My Garage	AH..thats not good! There had been a lot of speculation on how the next S2000 would look,and there was some hype about a 2010 model.
	() Thanks

30th March 2009, 10:24	#13
hillram Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 2,942 Thanked: 1,326 Times View My Garage	I never liked Honda's business sense nor their philosphies.Even back in 1991 they axed the winning F1 Team of Senna / Prost and later regretted and now the same phenomenon.No wonder their cars dont perform.
	() Thanks