[Mindgrinder]

Originally Posted by eq24

Fair enough but can I ask you, what would you have him do and I know that sentiment can be construed as another excuse for doing nothing but in the current scenario is one man enough, haven't we seen what happened to the man who wanted to make a change, last I heard people were burning his posters.

The point is there is no unified movement to curb this all. One man may stand up and claim that he will bring about change or even at the very least do something different but at what cost, he will either be ridiculed or shunned or God forbid killed.

This is how our country stands right now.

i have done a few things for cities i have stayed in, fought with govt agencies using media, have a few more things planned for future. As Kennedy said 'Ask Not What Your Country Can Do for your what you can do for your country', not deviating from the topic this is what Chinese are doing they are building a market for there country and with the highest population in the world it makes it one of the biggest potential market. Today we see so many designs copied, and uniqueness does not guarantee sales.

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by Mindgrinder

uniqueness does not guarantee sales.

No harm intended or not to disrespect anybody's thoughts and opinions, but personally, I work in a R&D field and to me, seeing one's Idea being bluntly copied without giving due credit to the original person, is disheartening. I understand its all about market, but, if only everyone wants to market, why to have an R & D in the first place? Just let everyone copy anything and everything. Or is the R&D guys, who really find something new look like fools? I am sorry to be arrogant, but, I sincerely do not support India to go the China (copying) way. I advocate the policy of learning from one's own mistakes rather than copying someone's stupidity.

Peace!

[scopriobharath]

I second you - R&D teams should come up with "innovative" ideas and come up with products. Just look how appealing is Hyundai's 3rd gen Verna, Elantra, Sonata Et all.

Toyota is also (slowly) coming up with good designs. This is a great improvement. I really wish people are more competitive.

I am totally against copying, be it cars or even other things. You rightly put it, copying does not guarantee sales. Look at how the earlier Jag inspired sonata failed or look even how the Bently/rolls inspired Geely-Ge failed.

[AlphaKilo]

China's car industry part 1 (series 18, episode 2) - BBC Top Gear

This is a very well know work from our beloved "Top Gear's - Orangutan and Co." How easily they copy everything! I appreciate that even copying needs some brains but then they cannot simply copy the looks. Even mercedes and many others copied the idea of DRL's(strip like DRL's) from Audi and we have seen many cars looking similar to each other, even the ones made by top brands, but they are just one odd cases and they just resemble some other brand in a way, but is never a straight lift.

I recount from my personal experience: I was working for a company which makes fork lifters, and it was a very small company(30-50 employees total) and to reduce costs, manufacturing was/is done in China, gets re imported in the form of CKD's, which were assembled here in our final assembly. Once, I was in a meeting with my boss and managers, I learned that the engineering drawings and blue prints are never ever shown to the chinese engineers, and that there is always a person from our company, permenantly stationed there to make sure nothing is being copied. Also, certain components(electrical/electronics) were exported to china with inbuilt safety seals, that ensured copyrights. Serious actions were taken when they found the seals to be broken or when the chinese wanted to explore the parts.
I understood from the meeting that they had devised this policy/method to curb copying, because, there was already an incident in which the design was copied, but was found out just at the nick of time to save them from further losses.

So there you go, the level of loyalty the chinese show! They go down to any levels to achieve market and achieve supremacy. I was infact shocked. How hard can it be to think on one's own to do something new? Come on, getting inspired from something is very much acceptable, but copying that idea and not even giving credit to the original creator is just pathetic.

[vb-saan]

Copying car designs is only a part of the game, which actually is the accepted part there. Other than cars, there is a huge industry there dishing out near perfect replicas of luxury watches, handbags, apparels etc. According to one of the TV show I watched recently, the govt. there is on a drive to crackdown these businesses and clean up the image.

And checkout the topgear video shared by AlphaKilo above. If I remember correctly Jeremy starts the segment in front of a coffee shop (fake Starbucks)

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Copying car designs is only a part of the game, which actually is the accepted part there. Other than cars, there is a huge industry there dishing out near perfect replicas of luxury watches, handbags, apparels etc. According to one of the TV show I watched recently, the govt. there is on a drive to crackdown these businesses and clean up the image.

And checkout the topgear video shared by AlphaKilo above. If I remember correctly Jeremy starts the segment in front of a coffee shop (fake Starbucks)

Ho ho!
In front of the fake Starbucks drinking a cup of fake coffee, wearing a fake Rolex or 'Lolex'. What fun! Serves the Chinese right to have fun poked at them. It is their own fault for being such terrible fakers!
But jokes apart, one can get pretty much anything there and there is something for every budget.
I remember going once to a huge 4 or 5 storeyed factory where each floor was around 6000 or 7000 square feet with just lines and lines of people sitting at little desks and making watches.
You could pick the watch you wanted from the latest Luxe catalogues and it would be either brought to you or delivered later provided you paid the price.
Perfect place for gifts for office colleagues and so on, many of whom have a fascination of luxe brand watches but either cant afford or dont want to plump for the real thing.
I remember seeing the latest PUMA FERRARI racing shoes there, the latest ' retro' adidas shoes, Lacoste shoes complete with fake packaging and a host of stuff.
Nowadays it appears one can get fake Samsung Tabs at Rs 8000, fake PSP gaming machines for some Rs 1600 odd etc.
It is amazing, but it is equally frightening.
Especially because their government and courts will never uphold a righteous IPR related case, given Apple's recent experience and GM too, with the Matiz knock off.

[DieselDon]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

such terrible fakers!

But jokes apart, one can get pretty much anything there and there is something for every budget.

@shankar.balan - Not sure what you meant by 'terrible'

These days either you have a) a quarter-the-price imitation (which is usually of lesser quality) - 'terrible' version 1
Or b) a three-quarters-the-price version (which is sometimes better than the original in quality) - 'terrible' version 2

While the consumer gets more options, the manufacturers and original patent holders get hit real bad. I see this killing the spirit behind real 'innovation'.

It seems to be doing good to the Chinese economy and as a result the government seemingly is not moving in that hard. (considering that they could keep Tibet quiet)

Was really stunned to see the look alike cars & the sales figures !

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by DieselDon

@shankar.balan - Not sure what you meant by 'terrible'

I meant incorrigible! They seem to thrive on making fakes!

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I meant incorrigible! They seem to thrive on making fakes!

Well said. I have a question, if one keeps blindly copying some one's idea, how long can that industry survive? Like any other resource, will that too not be extinguished one day and only copies of everything will survive? So will they then start to copy the copied stuff? At one point or other the orginality will die away and everyone will start copying and innovation will cease to exist.

[shankar.balan]

One can write essays on this if you like. Im trying to make a precis of it below.

Luxury was once the preserve of the chosen few. Hence it was considered as Luxury and was aspirational and desirable to those who were outside, looking in, so to say. The law of supply and demand applies here in its most basic form, so to say. The less of a product there is, the greater the demand for it.
Which is in a way why there are now these super priced limited edition products available to the few - a sort of club within a club, so to say. It extends across everything, right from watches to handbags to sunglasses to cars, shoes, wines, single malt whiskies and yachts etc!

In a sense this aspiration gave birth to the plethora of fakes - going by the dictum that Imitation is the best form of flattery!

I remember an article in the mid 1980's in Reader's Digest, when it was still a decent mag and not the rag it is nowadays. The article was about the anti-fake/ anti-duplication squad in HongKong and Taiwan and showed pictures of how they had taken bulldozers to some factories that we manufacturing fake Ray-ban sunglasses and Rolex watches! There were zillions of fake Ray-ban glasses and Rolex watches strewn on the ground and the bulldozers were crushing them.

Then, in the 1990's in HongKong and Taiwan, along with the re-distribution of the wealth came the beginnings of "commoditisation" of Luxury. Hongkongers went through exactly what we are going through today - with the sudden advent of big first generation salary led wealth, came a new breed of consumer. Same as in India and what has happened here in the 2000's.

This new breed of consumer has an insatiable appetite for luxury to show that he/ she has arrived. Snobs may call them arriviste but the truth is that all the so called "old money" was actually "new money" once upon a time!
The same journey in social history as described above applies to Mainland China too by the way.

With this now insatiable appetite for luxury and the ability and money to indulge the same, the commoditization of luxury has begun on an irreversible journey.

In turn, this has led to a re-awakening of a new middle class, who were simply a sub-class earlier.

This new middle class also aspires to big name brands and products. Look around you and you will see what I mean. This new middle class has not yet achieved the easy affordability levels that the earlier lot has and hence, theirs is an appetite which is fed by the fakes.

In short, whatever the measures that anyone may take, the ancillary industry which is fed by "fakes" is here to stay as long as certain brands and products remain aspirational and as long as some people are prepared to pay small money for a "knock off" just to flaunt the brand. Absolutely no way that this is going to cease!

Looking at it in this way, all that those Chinese "fakers" are doing, is being opportunistic and making money/ hay, while the sun shines/ glitter gleams!

Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

Well said. I have a question, if one keeps blindly copying some one's idea, how long can that industry survive? Like any other resource, will that too not be extinguished one day and only copies of everything will survive? So will they then start to copy the copied stuff? At one point or other the orginality will die away and everyone will start copying and innovation will cease to exist.

[volkman10]

Chinese automaker patents a Smart ForSpeed-like model -copy/paste technique is still going strong among Chinese car makers !

Chinese automaker Nanjing Jiayuan EV has recently applied for a trademark registration of a new electric vehicle which looks terribly similar to the Smart ForSpeed concept.
The photos in the trademark filling show an almost identical car, especially when looking at the front fascia. Even the wheels show some similarities with the ForSpeed concept while at the back the taillights are also copied. The only difference is the addition of a black roof.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11301075...eed-like-model

[pganapathy]

If the Chinese only copy, there comes a point when they will lose out to some other lower cost manufacturer. However, if they use this as a base for actual innovation, a-la Japan, then we are looking at the biggest car manufacturer in the world in the making

[volkman10]

And now Chinese names models too close to leading brands!

Audi blocks use of GQ3 name by China's Qoros.

Audi won a temporary court injunction to prevent Chinese automaker Qoros from using the letter "Q" as as part of the name of a new sedan planned for Europe and China

Qoros plans to launch a compact sedan called the GQ3 in China in the second half and in Europe toward the end of the year. Audi uses the letter "Q" for its SUVs and crossovers and objected to the letter appearing in the GQ3 name.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#ixzz2LapSboX5

[RAINMAKER]

Over the last 6 - 8 months, I have been visiting China. Been here over 5 times or so. Our company has a JV with a local partner here. For those who are not aware, anyone from outside wanting to setup a business must do so via a JV with a local partner (50:50). We make automotive components and are located at an Automotive "hub"..

The group company which we have JV with has over 60 + other JV's. And in most cases one will find expats / frequent visitors stationed at their respective plants.

Though our location is in a "C" grade town, this place is full of exotics. The resort where I am housed in (again belongs to the JV partner) is usually filled with Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Aston Martin, Porsche, Bentley, Maseratis, Land Rovers and other usual brands like Mercs, Audis, BMWs etc...

Being in an automotive hub, makes me wonder what are these vehicles doing here? Its looks way out of place in a C class town. But then again the JV partners can be filthy rich. Or maybe its a way to copy / paste? The very thought of it is chilling..

Recently I saw a vehicle which looked like a Hummer. The off-roader in me woke up in curiosity and soon I was googling away. This is what the vehicle turned out to be
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/20/t...brave-warrior/

As per the reports this has been in production for over 10 years.. In the recent past Hummer was acquired by a Chinese company.. And off lately Volvo was also acquired..

With all the money around, seems like a case of "If you cant Copy, Buy it!".

[M35]

SAIC Copies Ssangyong Korando for MG SUV

The MG division of SAIC (Shanghai Auto) is preparing to launch its first SUV, spy shots from bitauto.com show. The upcoming MG car looks so close to Ssangyong Korando that it was mistaken for a facelifted version of the latter by worldcarfans.com earlier this month.

The white test car exposed bears no logo, but the red SMTC sign (for "SAIC Motor Technical Center") and the design of the front grille clearly indicate it will join the MG family, which so far includes only sedans and hatchbacks



It is not the first time for SAIC to copy models developed by Ssangyong. The Roewe W5, released in August 2011, was a clone of the Kyron. Borrowing Ssangyong designs and technologies may be taken as a proper way by SAIC to recover some of the heavy losses it suffered for acquiring the South Korean automaker.
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