Honda and Toyota - and their lack of success in F1

ranjan united · 16th June 2006, 05:10

Some of you guys make me sick that i ever joined T-BHP. Team BHP has an excellent reputation and your childish behaviour is just ruining it. If you read my post correctly, which you apparently have not, I have criticized the present Honda and Toyota racing teams, not their past racing achievements. Like I said, they should just stick to engine supplying. right now, they are just going the Tyrell and Jaguar way; the way to extiniction. and those who launched personal attacks on me, questioning my competence, (i used to see F1 even before people in India had ever seen a race on Star Sports) heres my message to you, the truth cant be hidden - Love it or Shove it !!!

zenx · 16th June 2006, 06:48

Ummm, Ranjan, u joined the debate (which was beginning to get focussed on the topic, not the poster) at the lowered level of discussing who knows what. Not productive, is it ?

prince85 · 16th June 2006, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranjan united

and those who launched personal attacks on me, questioning my competence, (i used to see F1 even before people in India had ever seen a race on Star Sports) heres my message to you, the truth cant be hidden - Love it or Shove it !!!

Well then, please do me a favour and tell me when was F1 first broadcasted in India on Star Sports or whichever other channel????? {but then why am i asking you(scratching my head), answers exist in google i guess} And secondly, how old are you bro????, asking you since you say that you have been following F1 for a long time. BTW, watching the sport on TV for a long time is one thing, whereas understanding and writing off a team on the basis of just half a season is quite another. And isn't Honda sitting pretty at No.4 in the constructors standings, that to me shows that their performance this season as well is not bad at all.

Ranjan, i feel the your title to this thread writing off Honda and Toyota F1 teams as jokes doesn't make sense and sounds very immature. Otherwise your opening post in this thread definately worth debating. No offences meant

Cheers

adya33 · 16th June 2006, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by sujaylahiri

Here is the proof
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns16913.html

And they might name the engines as Lexus, so it'll be Williams-Lexus.

Where in that article it says TOYOTA & Williams has confirmed engine deal. Even the title has question mark in it.
Besides you have given link to the article which is dated to 2nd June where as link to article posted by me is dated 10th June.

Quote:

If you read my post correctly, which you apparently have not, I have criticized the present Honda and Toyota racing teams, not their past racing achievements.

Thread title is "Honda and Toyota - not teams but Jokes"
Some bits and pieces from your article

Quote:

Honda and Toyota are not true F1 teams, but jokes. the Japs have to realize that their style of work doesn't suit F1 or any other racing principle.

Quote:

sorry guys, it doesn't work that way. no matter how much money toyota puts in, it wont matter, coz they can't run a F1 team.

Quote:

i'd rather see minardi and arrows back instead of toyota and honda.

I'm sorry friend that's bashing.

v1p3r · 16th June 2006, 12:51

Wow, just gang up on someone and beat him up. That too, this time the mods are in on the action.

So if the guy knows nothing about F1, is there really a need to get this personal? I think some of you need to read Rudra's thread again.

merve_extreme · 17th June 2006, 00:34

What a waste?
All people on this forum talk as if they are F1 guru's.

Toyota has truly failed as Company backed F1 team.The money they put in F1 and the number of skilled people that they hired from other teams more than make up for their lack of experience in F1.Mike Gascoyne anyone?Toyota actually fired a good knowledgeable guy like Mike who they brought over from Renault.That shows that there is a lot of high handedness in their behavior.

Honda has done reasonably well in F1 but are struggling big time this year.

TheDoc · 17th June 2006, 07:23

Hmm, im really not a F1 fan nor do i watch the sport coz i think its kinda boring. But arent Toyota and Honda rather new to manufacturin chassis?
Coz engine is one thing. U can see the difference Ferrari and Red Bull both use the same engine right? Still there is a gap between them??
Drivers?? I really doubt it. If they were runnin spec cars im sure atleast 16 drivers will be within .5 seconds of the top driver.
Id probably attribute it to the chassis and to the teams experience in settin up the car for the given track, weather conditions.

These things arent things u learn overnight, is it?
Ferrari has been makin chassis since the first GPs. Mclaren from the late 60s. Williams and renault in the 70s. I know the cars r much different than what they used to be but all changes were gradual. And experience counts. All i can say its too early to judge either Honda or toyota yet, give them time, u never know....

ranjan united · 17th June 2006, 15:02

honda and toyota can have all the time they want. my problem isn't their performance, but the reasons for their poor performance. the Hire & Fire policy just doesnt work for F1.

Shan2nu · 18th June 2006, 11:50

Quote:

honda and toyota can have all the time they want. my problem isn't their performance, but the reasons for their poor performance. the Hire & Fire policy just doesnt work for F1.

Does their poor performance disgust you? Here's a simple sollution. Forget F1, start watching IRL.

Shan2nu

sujaylahiri · 22nd June 2006, 08:11

Another recent example of a major Honda reshuffle
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns16986.html

As recent as June 20, 06.

And then this one confirming it on June 21st, 2006
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns16989.html

2L8uLoose · 22nd June 2006, 10:02

Sheesh such viciousness..and then some people point finger's at me for being rude.
RU.. here's the thing.. like you said in your post.. love it or shove it... well I think from reading the entire thread here.. people are telling you NOT to do the former.
Do you really think just coz team A comes in with 10 times the budget of other team's they are going to get instant gratification? This is not like drag racing where the person with the most bucks gets the biggest bang.
I completely support the hire and fire policy in F1.. if you can't perform in the stipulated period of time.. well then you have no business being in this business... and yes thats exactly what it is.. BUSINESS!
As for being sickened by as you put it some of us guys here (that don't see your point of view).. well three lil words for you.. DEAL WITH IT!
Have a nice day!

16th June 2006, 05:10	#16
ranjan united BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Windsor, Canada... But still a Bombay-Boy at heart !!! Posts: 409 Thanked: 3 Times	Some of you guys make me sick that i ever joined T-BHP. Team BHP has an excellent reputation and your childish behaviour is just ruining it. If you read my post correctly, which you apparently have not, I have criticized the present Honda and Toyota racing teams, not their past racing achievements. Like I said, they should just stick to engine supplying. right now, they are just going the Tyrell and Jaguar way; the way to extiniction. and those who launched personal attacks on me, questioning my competence, (i used to see F1 even before people in India had ever seen a race on Star Sports) heres my message to you, the truth cant be hidden - Love it or Shove it !!!
	() Thanks

16th June 2006, 06:48	#17
zenx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,161 Thanked: 158 Times View My Garage	Ummm, Ranjan, u joined the debate (which was beginning to get focussed on the topic, not the poster) at the lowered level of discussing who knows what. Not productive, is it ?
	() Thanks

16th June 2006, 12:51	#20
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR / DXB / LON Posts: 5,334 Thanked: 6,896 Times View My Garage	Wow, just gang up on someone and beat him up. That too, this time the mods are in on the action. So if the guy knows nothing about F1, is there really a need to get this personal? I think some of you need to read Rudra's thread again.
	() Thanks

17th June 2006, 00:34	#21
merve_extreme Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,359 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	What a waste? All people on this forum talk as if they are F1 guru's. Toyota has truly failed as Company backed F1 team.The money they put in F1 and the number of skilled people that they hired from other teams more than make up for their lack of experience in F1.Mike Gascoyne anyone?Toyota actually fired a good knowledgeable guy like Mike who they brought over from Renault.That shows that there is a lot of high handedness in their behavior. Honda has done reasonably well in F1 but are struggling big time this year.
	() Thanks

17th June 2006, 07:23	#22
TheDoc BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chennai Posts: 50 Thanked: Once View My Garage	Hmm, im really not a F1 fan nor do i watch the sport coz i think its kinda boring. But arent Toyota and Honda rather new to manufacturin chassis? Coz engine is one thing. U can see the difference Ferrari and Red Bull both use the same engine right? Still there is a gap between them?? Drivers?? I really doubt it. If they were runnin spec cars im sure atleast 16 drivers will be within .5 seconds of the top driver. Id probably attribute it to the chassis and to the teams experience in settin up the car for the given track, weather conditions. These things arent things u learn overnight, is it? Ferrari has been makin chassis since the first GPs. Mclaren from the late 60s. Williams and renault in the 70s. I know the cars r much different than what they used to be but all changes were gradual. And experience counts. All i can say its too early to judge either Honda or toyota yet, give them time, u never know....
	() Thanks

17th June 2006, 15:02	#23
ranjan united BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Windsor, Canada... But still a Bombay-Boy at heart !!! Posts: 409 Thanked: 3 Times	honda and toyota can have all the time they want. my problem isn't their performance, but the reasons for their poor performance. the Hire & Fire policy just doesnt work for F1.
	() Thanks

22nd June 2006, 08:11	#25
sujaylahiri BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North America Posts: 960 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	Another recent example of a major Honda reshuffle http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns16986.html As recent as June 20, 06. And then this one confirming it on June 21st, 2006 http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns16989.html Last edited by sujaylahiri : 22nd June 2006 at 08:12.
	() Thanks

22nd June 2006, 10:02	#26
2L8uLoose BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 628 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	Sheesh such viciousness..and then some people point finger's at me for being rude. RU.. here's the thing.. like you said in your post.. love it or shove it... well I think from reading the entire thread here.. people are telling you NOT to do the former. Do you really think just coz team A comes in with 10 times the budget of other team's they are going to get instant gratification? This is not like drag racing where the person with the most bucks gets the biggest bang. I completely support the hire and fire policy in F1.. if you can't perform in the stipulated period of time.. well then you have no business being in this business... and yes thats exactly what it is.. BUSINESS! As for being sickened by as you put it some of us guys here (that don't see your point of view).. well three lil words for you.. DEAL WITH IT! Have a nice day!
	() Thanks