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fz_rider 10th June 2019 01:44

Re: Formula 1: The 2019 Canadian Grand Prix
 
What drama !
I hope this sting will help Vettel propel to greater heights. He's a character, and showed his fiesty emotions today. Anyone blowing up the rumours of him leaving have their answer.
Congrats to Lewis as well, he had superb race, constantly pushing Seb.

jpcoolguy 10th June 2019 01:57

Re: Formula 1: The 2019 Canadian Grand Prix
 
FIA, was once accused of supporting Ferrari and was duly called as Ferrari Internationale de'Automotive. And now I guess they should be called as MaFIA - Mercedes assisting FIA. :Frustrati

shibujp 10th June 2019 02:01

Re: Formula 1: The 2019 Canadian Grand Prix
 
Let me start with this

Quote:

"Formula 1 could see a 20% improvement in the quality of racing next year, according to Ross Brawn
"

I am sorry but smaller taller rear wings, wider front wings, simpler end plates aside....wasn't what we saw today a brilliant display of racing, the kind we want to see? And no matter what aerodynamic tom foolery that FIA and Liberty cook up, at the end of the day if these are the kind of decisions they might as well lounge out on a deck chair.

Ferrari were not the fastest but they were fast where it counted. I found it quite interesting that Leclerc started motoring only once Vettel was handed a 5 second penalty. I expected him to put pressure on Hamilton's gearbox after his second stop. That might have helped ease the pressure off Vettel.

What's happened to Alfa Romeo. Raikkonen was 15th today. Last year as Sauber they were doing so well. Bloody bad luck for Norris to retire in the midst of what was shaping up to be a brilliant drive.

Renault did well to have both cars in the top ten. Riccardo did give Bottas a hard time before he had to bow to the straight-line speed of the Mercedes.

Drive on,
Shibu.

aim120 10th June 2019 02:05

Re: Formula 1: The 2019 Canadian Grand Prix
 
Stewards was harsh but lewis also has been in the same situation in spa 2008, where he got a 25 sec penalty and lost out to Kimi in ferrari.

When I was reading the comments under F1 youtube video comparing the qualifying of Vettel and Hamilton, people where already joking about Vettel handing Hamilton the victory by crashing or spinning under pressure, so people already expect vettel to do that.

HKap 10th June 2019 06:58

Re: Formula 1: The 2019 Canadian Grand Prix
 
In all this mess the Ferrari strategy team's blunder (yet again) seems to have gone unnoticed. What the hell were they doing keeping Leclerc out on track for 4-5 laps after Hamilton came in? Lewis was lapping 2 seconds a lap faster than Leclerc. Ideally they should have got Leclerc in on lap 27 right after Vettel pitted. That would have allowed Ferrari to canter home with a simple 1-2. Vettel wouldn't have been under pressure and it would have been a straightforward race.

Ferrari deserve what they are getting.....

PS: I do think that this decision was wrong.

nkrishnap 10th June 2019 08:55

Re: Formula 1: The 2019 Canadian Grand Prix
 
Ridiculous of stewards to impose that penalty. If Seb had rejoined from a clear tarmac run off area, he would have deserved a penalty. In this case, a pure racing incident.

Looks like FIA is desperate to have Mercedes win when they didn't deserve it. F1 loses big time with such stupid assessments of racing incidents.

Edit. Very good of Seb to speak up and say booing at Hamilton is wrong. He mentioned booing at the funny decision is deserved.

the_joker 10th June 2019 09:02

Re: Formula 1: The 2019 Canadian Grand Prix
 
FIA may not be fair, but they are consistent. 2018 Japanese GP, Verstappen got the same penalty (5s) for pushing off Raikkonen. I also remember Spa a few years ago where Hamilton was penalized handing Raikkonen the victory.

SilentEngine 10th June 2019 09:47

It would have been better to just let it go as a racing incident. If Mercedes appealed, there would have been still an opportunity to present their case. Now, with the time penalty, it leaves no such scope and that's were it appears harsh on Seb/Ferrari. Penalty would seem justified with a stricter interpretation of the rule, but FIA has to be not only fair in its rulings, but also needs to 'appear' fair to all parties. That's where it failed yesterday.

I see some comparisons made with 2008 Spa incident. Any such comparisons are out of place. In that race, Lewis voluntarily decided to short-cut the chicane after failing to overtake Kimi. If he had yielded in the corner he wouldn't have been in a position to make the pass in the start/finish straight. That's the crux of that penalty.

Mohan Mathew A 10th June 2019 09:57

Re: Formula 1: The 2019 Canadian Grand Prix
 
I am no Vettel fan but that was just plain unfair. Vettel rejoined from a excursion on slippery grass and just before joining the track he again fishtailed, so it was not an attempt to block Hamilton but a driver trying to get the car back under control and drive as fast as he can.

Sorry FIA, you robber Vettel of a deserved win and you should be ashamed.

mayankk 10th June 2019 10:22

Re: Formula 1: The 2019 Canadian Grand Prix
 
I am a huge Hamilton fan, and though I am glad about the victory, the manner in which it was achieved was unfair.
I mean, by any means, that sounds like an unfair punishment, I couldn't see Vettel in control of the car till the time it stopped fishtailing. He could not have done anything. Hamilton had to brake because he had made up his mind about where to pass the second Vettel went off. Vettel was just trying to keep his car out of the wall rather than attempting to block Hamilton.

Hatari 10th June 2019 10:42

Re: Formula 1: The 2019 Canadian Grand Prix
 
1 Attachment(s)
Ferrari just cant seem to win! Shame about the mistake.

Hamilton then calls on the radio to accuse Seb of almost running him into the wall, then pulls him up on the podium and later goes on to say he didnt give the penalty!
Mastered the art of politics and using the media.

Seb even says Lewis saw what happened and had nothing to do with it!

But Seb should have been more careful, he admits he had little control of the car but steering on to the racing line after the grass was dangerous, Lewis was always close behind. The attachment shows the steering angle (almost extreme right) to cut back onto track.

ferrarirules 10th June 2019 11:32

Re: Formula 1: The 2019 Canadian Grand Prix
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the_joker (Post 4602050)
FIA may not be fair, but they are consistent. 2018 Japanese GP, Verstappen got the same penalty (5s) for pushing off Raikkonen. I also remember Spa a few years ago where Hamilton was penalized handing Raikkonen the victory.

Oh so are we conveniently forgetting Monaco 2016 - Hamilton vs Riccardo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Craussd_Ikc No penalty was given for Mexico 2018 when Lewis missed the corner completely - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI-nMx-gnTU.

The SPA 2008 incident penalty for Lewis was because he intentionally cut the chicance and gained an advantage not for unsafe rejoining the track- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6NkV0XFcUI

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatari (Post 4602099)
But Seb should have been more careful, he admits he had little control of the car but steering on to the racing line after the grass was dangerous, Lewis was always close behind. The attachment shows the steering angle (almost extreme right) to cut back onto track.

That is him countering wheel spin when he came of the grass. See the outside the car replay when he came of the grass, he had to counter wheel spin and there was a twitch as well.


My take on the incident - The speeds that these cars are doing it is easier said that Vettel should have been careful joining the track back. We forget the momentum he was carrying. That his mind is thinking about controlling the car and making sure it doesn't end up in the wall. Yes Hamilton got blocked but that was because he was trying to be opportunistic. Did he lose anything out of the incident - "NO". He was still on the tail. Compare it with Hamilton's crash in FP2, how easy was it for Hamilton to control it when he just clipped the inside curve.

I would like to sum it up that I am an ardent F1 fan since 1998 -1999. I know what FIA has been called in Ferrari's golden days but there has never been a decision this harsh ever. People stewarding the sport are forgetting that this is racing. Aat the top of the sport, there are going to be racing incidents such lame policing is ruining the sport. FIA has seriously become MaFIA (Mercedes assistance FIA). Shame F1. Shame FIA. Shame for motor racing.

According to me, Ferrari should walk out of the sport after 2020. And then liberty media and FIA can make Mercedes win as many Championships as they want.

And for all those nay sayyers, please read this link - every single F1 pundit, ex driver, current drivers of other series are loathing FIA and its stewarding. - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...ction/4461262/

the_joker 10th June 2019 13:49

Re: Formula 1: The 2019 Canadian Grand Prix
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrarirules (Post 4602135)
Oh so are we conveniently forgetting Monaco 2016 when Lewis blocked Vettel link -

That was Ricciardo, not Vettel. Also he didn't get penalty then because he left one car width for Ricciardo. He compromised his corner exit to leave the space which Ricciardo could have capitalised on if the track was dry. That was the consensus post race.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrarirules (Post 4602135)

No penalty was given for Mexico 2018 when Lewis missed the corner completely


He also didn't join the track in an unsafe manner. You get a penalty if you cut the corner and get an advantage, not simply for cutting the corner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrarirules (Post 4602135)

The SPA 2008 incident penalty for Lewis was because he intentionally cut the chicance and gained an advantage not for unsafe rejoining the track-

I concede that the scenario is totally different. We will get multiple examples of penalties for getting an advantage after cutting a corner.



Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrarirules (Post 4602135)
My take on the incident - The speeds that these cars are doing it is easier said that Vettel should have been careful joining the track back. We forget the momentum he was carrying. That his mind is thinking about controlling the car and making sure it doesn't end up in the wall. Yes Hamilton got blocked but that was because he was trying to be opportunistic.

Here Vettel had two options. He could slow down and give some room to Hamilton (like the Monaco incident) or do what he did. He knew that Hamilton would overtake if he gave any room. Maybe his speed was too high. That means he is not entitled to the racing line anymore as Hamilton is already alongside him (a significant portion of his car which counts for 'leave the space'). We can say he pushed Hamilton off the track (but not really off because there's a wall)

Racers are always opportunistic. Hamilton has to follow closely and capitalise on any mistake the driver in front makes. Otherwise, he'll never win a race, let alone a world championship.

Also, overreact much? What's this about MaFIA and Ferrari leaving the sport and all that rant? Ferrari still receives a huge sum of money for just being Ferrari like Mclaren. Should we call it Ferrari International Assistance based on this? I've never gotten the feeling that FIA were biased towards one team or another, even during 2000s when Ferrari were winning everything.This is a sport. There'll be some unfair decisions every now and then, which should be contested. Ferrari should appeal this decision, which they are doing. And do better in the next race.

aim120 10th June 2019 14:07

Re: Formula 1: The 2019 Canadian Grand Prix
 
Ferrari have said they are going to appeal but the stewards have more evidence, read below.

Quote:

It is understood that the stewards' decision was based on actions that Vettel took once he had got going again. The stewards examined slow motion footage of Vettel's actions from the moment that he had regained control and started steering his car – and it was felt that it showed that the German could have chosen a different path than the one he took.
The footage clearly captures Vettel correcting an oversteer moment as he rejoins the track – which is shown by a sharp steering wheel movement to the right by the German.
Shortly after that, however, Vettel has dispatched the oversteer and begins steering to the left to follow the direction of the circuit - suggesting he is now under control.
But a split moment later, rather than keeping to the left, Vettel is shown to release the steering wheel which allows his car to drift to the right – cutting off the route that Hamilton would have taken had he had clear space.
The movement to straighten the wheel, which put Vettel into the path of Hamilton, is believed to be key to the unanimous decision by the stewards to punish Vettel.
A further reason the stewards established was through the use of an extra CCTV camera view of the incident, which was not broadcast on the international feed, showing Vettel's head looking in the mirrors at where Hamilton was during these moments when he was releasing the wheel to the right.
Onboard footage of the Vettel incident also shows his head looking towards the mirrors in the moment when he is drifting out, suggesting he knew where Hamilton was.
Had Vettel kept his car tight to the left once he had regained control, then there was likely enough room to have allowed Hamilton through on the right, in which case the matter would almost certainly not have been investigated.
The fact that telemetry data showed Hamilton had to brake to avoid the collision with Vettel showed how the Mercedes driver was caught out by his rival's actions.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...Co5eKls&nrt=54

ferrarirules 10th June 2019 14:19

Re: Formula 1: The 2019 Canadian Grand Prix
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the_joker (Post 4602225)
That was Ricciardo, not Vettel. Also he didn't get penalty then because he left one car width for Ricciardo. He compromised his corner exit to leave the space which Ricciardo could have capitalised on if the track was dry. That was the consensus post race.

Did realize the typo and did report my post for correction to Mods. For your analysis, I don't agree that he left him space. Watch the replay carefully.

Quote:

He also didn't join the track in an unsafe manner. You get a penalty if you cut the corner and get an advantage, not simply for cutting the corner.
So you say he didn't gain an advantage in that race start. clap:

Quote:

Here Vettel had two options. He could slow down and give some room to Hamilton (like the Monaco incident) or do what he did. He knew that Hamilton would overtake if he gave any room. Maybe his speed was too high. That means he is not entitled to the racing line anymore as Hamilton is already alongside him (a significant portion of his car which counts for 'leave the space'). We can say he pushed Hamilton off the track (but not really off because there's a wall)
I don't consider your analysis of Monaco 2016 that Hamilton left Riccardo space correct. So cannot agree with you because Riccardo had to brake to avoid collision as well

Quote:

Also, overreact much?
If you think that I am overreacting then the whole F1 fraternity was overreacting as well so I am happy being in the overreacting lot. And for calling FIA - MaFIA, observe 2018 and 2019 seasons and the kind of controversial decisions.

Example - The recent decision to make thinner tread tyres permanent for all races as compared to few in last season. There was clear evidence last sesaon that Merc was happier on thinner tread tyres. This season Horner and Ferrari are pushing FIA to revert to thicker tread tyres.


Quote:

Originally Posted by aim120 (Post 4602241)
Ferrari have said they are going to appeal but the stewards have more evidence, read below.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...Co5eKls&nrt=54

This is now FIA and F1 pushing to justify via media because first time in F1 there has been such an unanimous F1 pundit / ex drivers verdict that it was unfair and it does not promote racing. Have you ever thought -

1. Why was this all not cited in the official penalty document?
2. Why couldn't they take a note of the incident and discuss it with drivers after the race and penalize if found guilty. They took this approach in 2008.


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