[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by Hatari

I would categorize Max as young and stupid for the weaving.

But going by your definition, what does that make Shumi for his antics against Hill/Villenueve/Monaco?

And what about when he almost put Barrichello into the wall at Hungary 2010.. your categorisation would equate it to attempted murder I presume.

Schumacher got his penalty for the Villenueve and Hill incident which has marred his legacy. Definitely far far worse than what Max has done of course. Max making a young and stupid mistake, no I don’t think so. He speaks and has the maturity well beyond his years, it was only when the going got tough that the tough started weaving

I remember the Baricello against the wall incident, that was cool in my opinion, hard racing. There will be many more of the kind you are talking about, however, do you remember the last time a Formula 1 driver was shown a black and white flag?

Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

Bottas not driving to his full potential --> Wouldn't this spoil his chances of getting a contract next year with more drivers (younger ones) waiting to take his place!

Off late, I feel like watching WWF/WWE when I see F1!

Bottas’s special driving skills, the kind I am talking about began after he secured a long time future contract with Alpha Romeo. I think this is his way of showing his displeasure at always being given a one year contract and now being replaced by George Russell.

WWF/WWE instead of Formula 1

Cheers

[iamahunter]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

I feel Bottas is purposely not driving at his full potential to help Hamilton and the team.

I feel the team is being unfair to him, he's become like the step child for Mercedes. All these years he only had a year's contract at a time, never more. Thanks to the politics played by the undeserving champ.

All the updates are only going to Ham's car, literally leaving Bottas with nothing. And he himself mentioned this in an interview.

Now if somebody implies that he's lying, then I believe that person is blindly in love with Hamilton and will cover his every mistake with a reason.

Originally Posted by Cyborg

Cheater is a term I would use for Max, simply because of his weaving down the straight and getting a black and white flag.

Oh man! Max should have gone elbows out and should have pushed Lewis into the wall rather than any defensive move.

[Surprise]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

They have managed to double up the wing, to compensate for that rake angle, but not at the cost of acceleration or top speed. Call it wing stall or double magic mode or what you will. That thing accelerates like the 2019 Ferrari in Europe. A rocket ship literally!

Looking at the last couple of races, looks like its an easy go for Hamilton and Mercedes...then I read this. Hopefully it boils down to drivers talent rather than just the machinery. Having said that, I truly believe Hamilton is definitely a notch higher in every aspect as a driver and it is not just the PU.

Hopefully next year it gets equal ground for more teams and wishfully for the one where the ALONSO drives

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by iamahunter

I feel the team is being unfair to him, he's become like the step child for Mercedes. All these years he only had a year's contract at a time, never more. Thanks to the politics played by the undeserving champ.

All the updates are only going to Ham's car, literally leaving Bottas with nothing. And he himself mentioned this in an interview.

Hello iamahunter! Ever seen an overachiever (someone who comes first all the time) or a teachers pet in school? These special people can do anything, can do no harm and (almost) always get their way. Hold this thought and allow me to explain

Even though Formula 1 is the pinnacle of motor sport it’s run by human beings at the end of the day. Now imagine Hamilton, a seven times world champion, someone who has broken almost all records since the championship’s inception. Is this kind of a person going to be denied anything within reason (more on this later). That’s exactly Hamilton’s obvious position in the Mercedes team. A Bottas cannot hope to ever get equal treatment to a Hamilton, it’s simple and clear. Try to understand, Bottas or anyone in his position has no bargaining power at all being in the same team as a Hamilton kind of persona.

Bottas was a perfect number two to Hamilton, no chance he could ever defeat Hamilton consistently. So it would have suited him to have the team retain Bottas. But the team did not listen to him and sensibly looked to the future by signing Russell. So even he has been denied this

Now with that out of the way, let’s deal with your other point. If anyone says Hamilton with all his records, a seven time world champion is an undeserving champion, that person has to be a special kind of Hamilton hater, since it makes no sense at all. There is nothing further to say in the matter or discussion in these circumstances.

I don’t like Hamilton at all, the personal persona he projects, the mixing he does with the sport and politics (Black Lives Matter) etc. I believe these two should not mix. However, I surely feel as a driver, he deserves to be one of the all time greats, if not the greatest, simply on the basis of his achievements.

Cheers

[iamahunter]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

. Now imagine Hamilton, a seven times world champion, someone who has broken almost all records since the championship’s inception. Is this kind of a person going to be denied anything within reason (more on this later). That’s exactly Hamilton’s obvious position in the Mercedes team. A Bottas cannot hope to ever get equal treatment to a Hamilton, it’s simple and clear. Try to understand, Bottas or anyone in his position has no bargaining power at all being in the same team as a Hamilton kind of persona.

Bottas was a perfect number two to Hamilton, no chance he could ever defeat Hamilton consistently. So it would have suited him to have the team retain Bottas. But the team did not listen to him and sensibly looked to the future by signing Russell. So even he has been denied this

Overall - Hamilton is a politician who spoiled not just his team mate's career, but also made the sport boring.

So boring that Martin Brundle felt the need to have a spicy documentary about F1, to make it popular and try to gain back the lost audience.
Read this - HOW DRIVE TO SURVIVE CAME TO BE

Other important things -
1. Bottas quit for a secure career, Hamilton still wanted him on the team with the hanging sword again.
2. If Toto did not take up Russel, then someone else would have(probably with a multiyear deal), read FOMO kind of situation for Toto and Mercedes.
3. Hamilton was not really happy with the decision of hiring Russel, why? If he has the capability to win on his own why does he care? Because unlike Bottas, Russel would would probably not agree on unfair treatment.

Originally Posted by Cyborg

Even though Formula 1 is the pinnacle of motor sport it’s run by human beings at the end of the day
.
.
.
I don’t like Hamilton at all, the personal persona he projects, the mixing he does with the sport and politics (Black Lives Matter) etc. I believe these two should not mix. However, I surely feel as a driver, he deserves to be one of the all time greats, if not the greatest, simply on the basis of his achievements.

Exactly!
My friend, a human is a human before an influencing sports-person. If these are the type of humans in the sport, additionally controlling and playing bad politics in the sport, the sport will continue to get unpopular over time. Isn't that's what happening over the last 4-5 years?

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by iamahunter

. If these are the type of humans in the sport, additionally controlling and playing bad politics in the sport, the sport will continue to get unpopular over time. Isn't that's what happening over the last 4-5 years?

Wow, you seem to be managing quite a bit of the paddock. A lot of inside info there about Russell and bottas's mindset and the management at mercedes.
Also, do google f1 viewership by year.

[iamahunter]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Wow, you seem to be managing quite a bit of the paddock. A lot of inside info there about Russell and bottas's mindset and the management at mercedes.

Wow Man! I am surprised at such a direct attack about my opinions from a Distinguished Member! I believed you guys help keep sanity on the Forum!

And here I thought we were discussing about the stuff related to the Sport and its famous personalities!

Originally Posted by mayankk

Also, do google f1 viewership by year.

Quoting a news report from 10 Nov 2021.

These viewership gains mean that the 2021 Formula One season is averaging 947,000 viewers on ESPN, ESPN2 and ABC, an increase of 56 per cent compared to 2020, which reached an average of 608,000. Additionally, audiences are up by 41 per cent compared to 2019, which reached an average of 672,000 viewers.

Source

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by iamahunter

Wow Man! I am surprised at such a direct attack about my opinions from a Distinguished Member! I believed you guys help keep sanity on the Forum!

A response to your intimately insider knowledge is an attack?

Being a D has nothing to do with it. Or maybe I AM keeping the sanity, no?

Originally Posted by iamahunter

Quoting a news report from 10 Nov 2021.

]

No cookie for you:

https://amp.formula1.com/en/latest/a...pagvPoPUQ.html

Does not reflect too poorly, Hamilton's domination notwithstanding.

[Hatari]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

Schumacher got his penalty for the Villenueve and Hill incident which has marred his legacy. Definitely far far worse than what Max has done of course. Max making a young and stupid mistake, no I don’t think so. He speaks and has the maturity well beyond his years, it was only when the going got tough that the tough started weaving

I remember the Baricello against the wall incident, that was cool in my opinion, hard racing. There will be many more of the kind you are talking about, however, do you remember the last time a Formula 1 driver was shown a black and white flag?



Bottas’s special driving skills, the kind I am talking about began after he secured a long time future contract with Alpha Romeo. I think this is his way of showing his displeasure at always being given a one year contract and now being replaced by George Russell.

WWF/WWE instead of Formula 1

Cheers

You think almost running your opponent into a wall, on the fastest part of the circuit is cool? That to you is less dangerous than what Max did?
Barrichelo was shouting "black flag..black flag" on the radio.
Shumi himself apologized later.. probably among the only times he has in his career.

Perspective. Perspective. Dont think you are anywhere close to being objective, so no point discussing this further.

Quite a few black and white flags.. Leclerc got one 2 years ago
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...EgqwdELqA.html

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by Hatari

You think almost running your opponent into a wall, on the fastest part of the circuit is cool? That to you is less dangerous than what Max did?
Barrichelo was shouting "black flag..black flag" on the radio.
Shumi himself apologized later.. probably among the only times he has in his career.

Perspective. Perspective. Dont think you are anywhere close to being objective, so no point discussing this further.

Hello Hatari, yes, it’s my perspective. My bad for not explaining myself in detail, here goes.

Schumacher versus Barichello incident:
What he did was not called for, but cool from the perspective that it came from a split second decision and red mist. He made a human mistake, more importantly apologised and we move on with racing/life. A person who hasn’t made a mistake in racing or life hasn’t been born yet. However, realisation and apologising is important.

Max Verstappen weaving/black and white flag:
What Max did was calculated, showing his intention to Hamilton that he was not going to let him pass, kind of a threat. He did his weaving stunt/show when Hamilton was not actually going to pass him, he was at an enough distance behind to see it. If Max did it (weaving) when Hamilton was actually going make a pass, there could have been a big accident and 100% blame would have been attributed to Max, it would have been crystal clear. Max knew that and the possible penalties he could face, he simply took this approach to delay the inevitable (for this race).

When Max was informed he’s got a black and white flag his reply was “tell them I said hi”, obviously directed to the stewards, that he doesn’t care a damn about the black and white flag. He was defiant not apologetic and the team did not have to tell him why he had the black and white flag, he knew exactly what he had done. This is what makes the incident unacceptable and incomparable to me with regards to the other one (Schumacher versus Barichello) you pointed out.

Thanks for sharing the other incidents. Let’s see how much both of them make us type over the next two races

Cheers

[SedanGuy]

Although I voted for Max way back, the result seems to be going Hamilton’s way. You can’t make mistakes in this stage, clearly today the redbull was tad bit faster but clearly differentiated them was the one mistake Max did. If the gearbox is spared, we have a great race on our hands tonight.

Jeddah circuit is blindingly fast. Everyone had their fair share of troubles. Is it going to decide the championship, I hope so.

[speedmiester]

With one final race to go, both title contenders are on equal points.

Lewis is in supreme form in the past three races and will be counted as the favorite to win the championship.
Max's antics in Saudi did little to help his case.

I believe we will be seeing a lot of fireworks on track if Max and Lewis fight for position on track.

Max has won 9 races this season and Lewis 8. If both cannot score any points in the final race, Max will be world champion as he has won more races than Lewis. He also has more runner up positions than Lewis.

I am sure this will be RedBull's mind and this sets up the final race for a grand finale.

Mercedes strategy will be to keep their end of the action clean. Aim for pole with Lewis and use Bottas as the buffer to Max.

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by speedmiester

Max has won 9 races this season and Lewis 8. If both cannot score any points in the final race, Max will be world champion as he has won more races than Lewis. He also has more runner up positions than Lewis.

I am sure this will be RedBull's mind and this sets up the final race for a grand finale.

This is the most dangerous thing of all. Judging by Max’s driving and antics especially after the Jeddah race, he seems to looking to create a crash between them, but try and make it appear to be a racing incident. He gives no room whatsoever and leaves it upto Hamilton to give way or crash, since it suits him.

Hope it’s a good clean race and Hamilton wins the race and title, not because I am a Hamilton fan but especially because of the way he has driven in the last three races.

Almost everyone in Formula 1 has done things to win, wrong and right, but Max Verstappen has taken things to a new low with the way he has been driving and surely doesn’t deserve to be world champion.

Cheers

[AZT]

I'm not sure people realize this but a lot of the Orange army is racist. I didn't think it was that much of an issue now, used to see the hate at the start of his career.

But I had the misfortune to watch a stream with chat. It was crazy, n word repeatedly, monkey emojis. Shocking in this day and age. Even if Lewis was brown, there would be the same treatment. I hope Lewis wins this just to shut those racist pricks.

[McLaren Rulez]

While the drivers are closely matched, Mercedes is simply too quick for Red Bull, especially in race trim. Even if Verstappen drives absolutely perfectly, I think he needs bad luck to befall Hamilton in order to win this one.