Team-BHP - DSG packs up on Skoda Laura CR140

They have been 2 new Superb gearbox failures reported in the Mechatronics thread. And there are 2 Fabia diesel engine failure threads under "Technical Stuff".

Skoda reliability and service center woes not affecting the sales THAT much - this should be a case study for IIMs. My guess is that they know how to make cars that are extremely desirable!.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller (Post 2784183)

:confused:
With a mechanical failure, once the system has gone into safe mode, how can it come out of safe mode and function normally again? With an electronic/software related issue, switching off/disconnecting the battery etc. can reset the system - such as with an ECM or Mechatronics controller.

Absolutely.
Reset is an electronics "thing".
I do not know how a mechanical part can reset itself after it has failed.

Both the clutches inside the DSG-6 are wet plate type, right? Why would they fail?

It could very well be the mechantronics, people at Skoda may have been bored with the word "mechatronics" so they decided to type something else...

On a serious note - any pictures of the failed part?
Being in warranty, they would not hand it over to the owner, but I am sure a picture could be taken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik_kapur (Post 2784398)

Does the Jetta also have the 7speed DSG of the Laura or is it a newer 6 Speed Box ?

Also, how come we never hear of Jetta DSG failures ? If it is the same box, it should see a similar fate in the Jetta !

Laura does not have the problematic 7 speed box, both Jetta and Laura share the same 6 speed box.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anandpadhye (Post 2784482)

Because the gearbox detected a mechanical problem it went into safe mode to prevent further damage, safe mode was limiting gearbox to shift beyond first gear not the damaged mechanical part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by .anshuman (Post 2784373)

DSGs for VW and Skoda are same, manufactured at the same place and fitted in the same factory in India.

I know they're fitted in Aurangabad factory. But Skoda vehicles mechatronic units need to come Czech republic. Not just in India but wherever a Skoda DSG failure takes place.

My point was that is VW keeping the good stuff i.e; newer and updated DSG boxes with better reliability which goes onto the new passats and jettas and not passing on the same to the Skoda assembly line for the lauras and superbs (petrols mostly) and now a diesel. I know the failure was mostly in the petrol 7 speed DSG's which never came on the new passat/jetta.

Even if it is due to cost, which it shouldn't be because VW sources components as a group effectively reducing cost concerns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford5 (Post 2784582)

Ofcourse. I know they're made in Aurangabad. But Skoda vehicles mechatronic units need to come Czech republic. Not just in India but wherever a Skoda DSG failure takes place.

My point was that is VW keeping the good stuff i.e; newer and updated DSG boxes with better reliability which goes onto the new passats and jettas and not passing on the same to the Skoda assembly line for the lauras and superbs (petrols mostly) and now a diesel.

Even if it is due to cost, which it shouldn't be because VW sources components as a group effectively reducing cost concerns.

Please read my earlier post properly, the DSG 'box on Jetta, Passat, Laura and Superb diesel is exact same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford5 (Post 2784582)

My point was that is VW keeping the good stuff i.e; newer and updated DSG boxes with better reliability which goes onto the new passats and jettas and not passing on the same to the Skoda assembly line for the lauras and superbs (petrols mostly) and now a diesel. I know the failure was mostly in the petrol 7 speed DSG's which never came on the new passat/jetta.

I doubt if this is the case. The issue with 7-speed DSG is a worldwide phenomenon, irrespective of whether the car is a Skoda or VW. The 7-speed DSG never came into the current Passat and Jetta because only the diesel variants made into India.

Just to clear the confusion.

FWD cars only:
DSG7 = DQ200 - 7 speed dry clutch transmission can handle max of 250Nm torque. Found in the Superb and other low torque petrol engines. Known to be problematic.
DSG7 = DQ500 - latest 7 speed dry clutch that can now handle 500Nm torque. Found in the Audi TT and VW Tiguan.
DSG6 = DQ250 - 6 speed wet clutch transmission used in all VW/Skodas diesel engines including the Laura, Jetta, Passat, Superb. Mostly reliable.

S-tronic:
DSG transmissions used by Audi for Quattro vehicles only with longitudinal mounted engines.

Multitronic:
CVT transmissions used by Audi for FWD cars like the A4 and A6 in India.

^^ Furthermore, Audi uses CVT for FWD cars because their version of DSG is designed for longitudinal mount on Quattro equipped cars. The CVT is older and inferior transmission in lineup, expect it to be replaced by a DSG in future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by .anshuman (Post 2784533)

Because the gearbox detected a mechanical problem it went into safe mode to prevent further damage, safe mode was limiting gearbox to shift beyond first gear not the damaged mechanical part.

Anshuman, the mechanical problem would not go away once the electronic system finds it to be faulty and goes into safe mode. Even when the electronics are reset, the error should come up again instantly once the system detects the mechanical issue. In manson's case, the car was 'rebooted' and worked perfectly after that.

For example, if there is a mechanical fault related to an injector (and ECM detects injector failure), the car would go into limp-home mode. Remove the battery, reset the ECM, restart the car, but the ECM will go into limp-home mode soon after, once the faulty injector is detected. Since that did not happen in manson's car, I am inclined to believe it was an electronics issue only, not a mechanical one - probably in the Mechatronics unit itself. In any case, the so-called *megaclutch* is a term I have not heard of for DSG components.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vid6639 (Post 2784613)

DSG6 = DQ250 - 6 speed wet clutch transmission used in all VW/Skodas diesel engines including the Laura, Jetta, Passat, Superb. Mostly reliable.

Vid, to add on – DQ250 DSG is used in some of the high-end petrols (e.g.; Golf GTI, Octavia vRS etc.) as well. AFIAK, DQ250 was their first production DSG, and the most trouble-free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller (Post 2784639)

The mechanical problem was not limiting the gearbox to first gear, it was the safe mode. The main problem was the clutch unit but safe mode was preventing the 'box from shifting beyond first gear to prevent further damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by .anshuman (Post 2784645)

The mechanical problem was not limiting the gearbox to first gear, it was the safe mode. The main problem was the clutch unit but safe mode was preventing the 'box from shifting beyond first gear to prevent further damage.

The clutch unit, as you say, should be a mechanical fault - then, why did the electronics not pick up/detect the same fault again after restart, and go into safe mode (preventing gearshift beyond first gear)??

Quote:

Originally Posted by .anshuman (Post 2784691)

@Manson: It would be great if you share the list of parts changed from the receipt if it is mentioned there.

I agree with Anshuman that we need the detailed parts list. There's no such thing as a megaclutch unless the parts that have failed are the 2 clutches itself.

40K is not the price for complete gearbox and is also not the cost of the mechatronics which is around a lakh.

It could be the input shafts or the gear cogs themselves.