[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

After all of my experience I can say one thing, If one really wants to learn about cars, buy a second hand car!!!!!!!

My first car was a second hand M 800 from a dealer. Got cheated royally by him on Air-conditioning. Since I got the car in January, there was no way I could check it in Delhi winters though I noticed abnormally high RPM while operating AC.

Used it for 47000 km in 10 months and then had to sell it as the engine almost sealed on Greater Noida Expressway. The ownership experience almost turned me into a M800 expert!

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

Short Term Effects:
Due to insufficient air charging the fuel doesn't burn completely which leads to loss of mileage (Mine dropped from consistent 17 - 18 to 11 - 12 kmpl) and heavy smoking (even under mild acceleration).

Long Term Effects (from some European websites):
Prolonged driving in these conditions will eat up your exhaust after-treatment systems i.e. the catalytic converters (SCR systems on modern European diesels are quite expensive), EGR systems and Diesel particulate filters.

MPFI Petrols donot suffer from these issues as they do not have so many exhaust after-treatment devices (mostly they do with a simple cat con - AFAIK Honda i-vtec doesn't even have that).

However, the new gen direct injection turbo charged engines like the VW TSI or the upcoming Ford Ecoboost can suffer from these issues.

Hmm. Now, in that case doesn't it make sense to buy cars which don't have a turbo charger? There are plenty of models without turbo and they work, well, fine, right?

[DieselFan]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

Hmm. Now, in that case doesn't it make sense to buy cars which don't have a turbo charger? There are plenty of models without turbo and they work, well, fine, right?

This is like saying buy a Cycle or a bullockcart as they are very reliable and would not fail.

Jokes apart, turbo in a diesel cars have become standard now. There is no Diesel car that is without a Turbo. Turbo are fairly reliable if they are used properly (30 sec startup idling and 1 min switch off idling). My Swift has a Turbo and I have run almost 1,00,000 km without any issues. There are quite a few folks on this forum who have run >2Lkms and some >3L kms without any turbo issues.

[ramzsys]

Only if the previous owner did all the idling rules properly, one can ensure of the turbocharger longevity. But if the car is in a used car showroom, nothing can be ascertained.
I do see even brand new turbodiesels revved to glory(leaving a cloud of black smoke) and god save those who buy these cars.

[sarthakgupta]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

Hmm. Now, in that case doesn't it make sense to buy cars which don't have a turbo charger? There are plenty of models without turbo and they work, well, fine, right?

Currently AFAIK only three models are available w/o turbo. Mitsubishi Lancer 2.0 IDI, Indica V2 NA IDI and ofcourse the Ambassador 2.0 (or is it 1.5) IDI. However, they are available only in BS3 cities. So we can safely say that these engines have a life of 2 - 3 years max as when BS4 will be implemented throughout India, these models will have to be phased out.

As with any new technology, it will take some time before manufacturers are able to iron out all issues related to small capacity common rail diesels and their associated components both at the air charging side (turbos and intercoolers etc.) and exhaust after treatment side (SCRs, EGRs and DPFs etc.).

Pic of my Honda City: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...ml#post2888817

Complete initial buying and ownership review coming soon.

[condor]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

So we can safely say that these engines have a life of 2 - 3 years max as when BS4 will be implemented throughout India, these models will have to be phased out.

No, the old car that has already been registered cannot be thrown out of the roads. Implementation of BS4 means that only BS-4 spec cars can be sold. This is applicable only to new cars, and does not affect old cars. Old cars are only subject to FC - after the 15 yrs & subsequent 5 yr periodic checks.

[sarthakgupta]

Agreed Condor sir, what I meant by phase out after 2 - 3 years is phase out from new car market. I understand that cars which have been already sold can continue to be on roads for 15 years (or higher).

[DReddy]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

Actually there is a difference now. With completion of my studies I am able to leave office by 5:30 P.M. and thus I have joined the chartered bus service being employed by other colleagues. So my daily running will be about 5 - 10 kms per day max. (Indore is a very small - entire city within 14 km of diameter !!!!!).

Hi sarthak,

I was just reading through your ordeal and came across this. I had a similar impression about indore in the past few months, but i still did manage to spot some team bhp stickers around. I think we should organise a team bhp indore meet. I just started a thread in the meets section, please respond and spread the word if you are in touch with fellow bhpians from indore.

Deepak.

[Yamahead]

Yes, that is the typical cost of a turbocharger.

Skoda turbos cost around a lac and Scorpio turbos around 75k. I know these prices from replacements that my friends have had.[/quote]

I have heard from people connected to the rallying scene in Delhi that a KP35 turbo used in Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TdCi and Renault K9K costs 8900/- straight out of a box and can be procured from any Honeywell dealer.
OEMs procure the piece from Honeywell and sell it to hapless owners for insane markups.
Of course I must add that getting a turbo and getting an expert mechanic to actually install it properly is a different kettle of fish altogether.
Skoda billing to customer is no indicative of the actual cost to Skoda as many members will confirm. Even MUL sells turbos for 14999/- which I consider a standard price for a turbo.
Fiat 75 BHP FGT manufactured by TVS comes for around 13000 as per teamfiat.

[humyum]

Firstly, when testing a car, first take its car number and ask the service station of the company of which the car belongs to cross reference the cars records and odo meter. A MUST in a country like India.

Secondly before taking a test drive of the vehicle you might buy, take a test drive of a similar make and model which is in perfect condition, so you know what is perfect and what is not.

Turbo Diesels have 100 things in them that might be faulty, a short test drive just can't tell you that. Take it for a 10 to 20 kilometer city + highyway ride just to be sure.

Lastly observe the owner ask him questions. If you get direct perfect answers to when this was changed and when that was changed, he probably cared for his car. People who don't care about their cars usually end up with 'Service main hua hoga, mujhe nahi pata'.
I know every bit and piece of when even a screw was replaced in my car.