[ashis89]

In May 2021, as my father wasn't using the RoadRunner, he offered it to my uncle to put it to some regular use. My uncle, whose primary ride is an Endy 3.2 and finds it cumbersome for city, was happy to take it for city errands. He has a trusted driver who shares the driving duty of all his cars.

Towards the end of July, his driver called me one day that the car was jerking and the AC wasn't cooling well. So he took it to their FNG who diagnosed it to a ruptured coolant pipe. The water and coolant had leaked, thereby heating the engine. He lamented the lack of temperature gauge for being unable to figure it out earlier. The damage had been done by then, I believe.

I was worried. I spoke to the FNG guy to replace the pipe first and then inspect the engine for damage caused due to over-heating. He agreed but said the engine was fine. I followed up later but the driver said all the *necessary* work was done and the car was back on road. This is where the FNG could have identified but probably over-looked my concern.

Couple of months later, my father felt the need of the car and got it. During his occasional use, he complained that the engine was slightly hesitant to start and felt lethargic to drive. I told him about the 4.5 year old battery doing duty must be on its way out. With bare minimum running, the car continued another month or so.

Finally, in the last week of October, it failed to start one day just as my father was planning to go for some important work. The first time that RoadRunner had failed us. It cranked but never started. He called me and asked if it could be the battery but I declined as it was cranking fine. Road side assistance was called. Within the first crank, the mechanic said it is blown gasket due to the bubbling in the radiator. Towed away car and told us it would be a 50-60k expense.

Next day, I called up few contacts at the MASS and asked for a genuine evaluation. They checked and said that gasket has to be replaced but the head is also damaged. To save costs, it could be repaired but for best performance, it has to be replaced. Gave a go-ahead for replacement and they placed an order for parts. I also told them to check for any other parts (which are still OE from factory) which needs replacement in the near term - shock absorbers, clutch, etc.

10 days later and after thorough trials, they dropped the car back at home. Replacements included a head, gasket and 4 valves. Rest everything was signed off as good condition. Total bill of 27k.

Now, the car is back to doing what it does best - lay idle at my parent's place! Odo is somewhere around 92k. No pictures with me but I should be able to lay my hands on it next month. I miss that piece of machine and can't wait!

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by ashis89

Now, the car is back to doing what it does best - lay idle at my parent's place! Odo is somewhere around 92k. No pictures with me but I should be able to lay my hands on it next month. I miss that piece of machine and can't wait!

That's bad! Head getting damaged means it endured too much heat. How careless of people to ignore such basic hints.

Good that you decided to go the right way. One way of saving some cash is getting used head in good shape from scrap and cleaning/overhauling it and using new seals and valves. Heads get damaged only when they overheat, thus a good piece from scrap can be safely used.

Also price of head for K10 engine is a reasonable 9.5k. You'll be shocked to know that for older engines like my 5 Speed 800, Zen MFPI, Old Swift etc, head used to cost north of 25k rupees!

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Good that you decided to go the right way. One way of saving some cash is getting used head in good shape from scrap and cleaning/overhauling it and using new seals and valves. Heads get damaged only when they overheat, thus a good piece from scrap can be safely used.

Shashi, would appreciate your thoughts on this peculiar issue that I am facing with the WagonR, in case you are aware of any such symptoms.

Originally Posted by ashis89

I have a peculiar problem to report. My WagonR engine had a busted gasket due to overheating. The head, gasket and a couple of valves were replaced after inspecting the damage.

After this replacement, I observe an issue with starting. The cold start of the day is normal. However after running for few kms, every crank is long and the engine starts with some hesitation. As if the battery is dying. I also observed a slightly irregular idle when the AC is on. Due to lack of a temp gauge (), I can't figure out if the engine is heating up.

I did doubt the battery which is 4.5 yr old Amaron. But the battery guys checked it twice and certified it to be in good condition. They even cleaned the terminals and applied petroleum jelly. After testing, they did a bunch of cold starts and the car started fine. But after driving for a while, the starting issue persists.

The car has been driven 10-20 kms in a day within city (no highway), with and without AC. Any leads would be appreciated before I send the car to the workshop again.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by ashis89

He lamented the lack of temperature gauge for being unable to figure it out earlier.

Sorry for bumping it now but didn't the temperature warning light come on ?
Asking this because I was also concerned about the lack of the temperature gauge but went through the manual and figured that if this light comes on stop and tow to service is to be followed.
But if the light didn't come on that's a different issue altogether.

On the battery our wagonR is nearing 28k in 5yrs 3 months on stock battery with no issues so far with a running of 18-20 kms / day 6 days a week. Amaron in a friend's M800 with sparing usage is over 8 years but he keeps it charged with a Bosch C3.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by shancz

Sorry for bumping it now but didn't the temperature warning light come on ?
Asking this because I was also concerned about the lack of the temperature gauge but went through the manual and figured that if this light comes on stop and tow to service is to be followed.
But if the light didn't come on that's a different issue altogether.

I can't confirm this as the car was being used by my uncle's family when this happened. Assuming that the light did lit up, he could have easily missed it due to his ignorance of this car and its tell-tale lights.

After getting the car back post head replacement, I keep looking at the dashboard once in while but haven't found anything amiss so far.

On the battery our wagonR is nearing 28k in 5yrs 3 months on stock battery with no issues so far with a running of 18-20 kms / day 6 days a week. Amaron in a friend's M800 with sparing usage is over 8 years but he keeps it charged with a Bosch C3.

My stock SF Sonic lasted 5 yrs 10 months but back then, the car was driven daily for atleast 20-25 kms. Current situation has changed and the car does 10-20 kms once in 10-20 days. Sometimes it doesn't see any activity even for a month. Naturally, I don't expect the battery to last as long as it used.

Regarding the trickle charger, my father would be least bothered to use it and hence, it's out of question.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by ashis89

1. I keep looking at the dashboard once in while but haven't found anything amiss so far.

2. Sometimes it doesn't see any activity even for a month. Naturally, I don't expect the battery to last as long as it used.

1. I meant when you notice the starting issue now when the car starts after too much effort.

2. Same as my scooter which has almost flatlined twice in the last 1 year(total life of 4 years), brought to life by that loaned C3

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by shancz

1. I meant when you notice the starting issue now when the car starts after too much effort.

While starting it is usual 3-4 lights, like oil, power steering, battery. Once the engine turns over, the lights go off as usual. Nothing unusual except for that long struggling crank, sometimes needing a second crank when first one fails.

Temperature light has never lit during my drives so far even after a 15 km drive in thick traffic and AC on.

2. Same as my scooter which has almost flatlined twice in the last 1 year(total life of 4 years), brought to life by that loaned C3

The less I talk about the Activa, the better it is. It must be running on its 3rd or 4th battery in its 10 year lifetime (11k kms). However it does see a 3km ride almost every day.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by ashis89

1. Nothing unusual except for that long struggling crank, sometimes needing a second crank when first one fails.
Temperature light has never lit during my drives so far even after a 15 km drive in thick traffic and AC on.

2. The less I talk about the Activa, the better it is. It must be running on its 3rd or 4th battery in its 10 year lifetime (11k kms).

1. I would've said to check the spark plugs but you had already checked them out. Then would be a relay but only because our earlier Activa had a similar issue of starting at the 3rd to 6th crank, 3/5 times approximately. Ultimately traced down to a faulty relay.

2. Our Access125 is at 13k in 4 years but I see its usage going down further so battery will become a consumable.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by ashis89

Shashi, would appreciate your thoughts on this peculiar issue that I am facing with the WagonR, in case you are aware of any such symptoms.

Went through your history and the repair done, first thing which comes in my mind is why only few valves were replaced? If the heat was bad enough to ruin the head, it would have easily damaged the valves and seats, even the piston may have been affected. I think your tappet cover too is made of Aluminum, else in newer cars with Plastic covers, even that gets ruined.

So first, get the compression test done while the car is hot, both wet and dry compression test. Compression leak may happen from head gasket area, valve seat etc.

Compression values for your car:

Standard: 174 psi
Limit: 139 psi
Maximum difference between two cylinders: 14.5 psi

Secondly, check if Camshaft and Crank position sensors are fine, Camshaft sensor is known to get damaged during overheat. Also check intake manifold and fuel rail/injectors for any damage due to heat. We need to be sure that no part in and around engine is damaged. If intake manifold etc is damaged, and they can get damaged due to heat, and there is any kind of vacuum leak, you will again face hard starting.

Thirdly, if all hardware is fine, then one very common issue which causes hard Hot starting is fuel vapor lock.

Regards,
Shashi

PS: Regarding Activa needing frequent batteries, even my XCD135 is no different. Had put a new Amaron last year around June, and it's reading was 4.92V last night. Charging system of bike has been checked multiple times. Bike is used very less, once or twice a month for local errands, but the battery doesn't hold charge even one bit.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Went through your history and the repair done, first thing which comes in my mind is why only few valves were replaced? If the heat was bad enough to ruin the head, it would have easily damaged the valves and seats, even the piston may have been affected. I think your tappet cover too is made of Aluminum, else in newer cars with Plastic covers, even that gets ruined.

Thank you for the detailed response, Shashi. I have my action items ready now and will share it with the service center when I send the car for check-up. I will try to find some time and take the car myself.

As to why only some parts were changed and others weren't, I never questioned that. I told them to go ahead with all replacements deemed 'necessary'.

Edit: I found the bill for the work done.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by ashis89

Thank you for the detailed response, Shashi. I have my action items ready now and will share it with the service center when I send the car for check-up. I will try to find some time and take the car myself.

Thanks. Even the valves haven't been changed. Hope they are all fine. While doing compression test, get both Wet and dry compression test done, else you'll just get a result that compression is low, but culprit is piston ring or valves you'll not know.

Please see this how compression test is done:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nABx4GwhV68

If wet and dry readings are same, it's the head side which is causing lost compression.

[ashis89]

So the car came back from the service center. The service manager informed that the Valve shims had to be replaced which was not done earlier. Got a bill for tappets replaced and no labour charges.

Post receiving, I have driven the car for 200+ kms, including couple of 50+ kms trips. Idle is smooth, pick-up and the low end torque has improved a lot and looking at the fuel gauge, the FE seems to have improved too (it was poor earlier). Hope it is end of this saga. Overall, the RoadRunner is back to being smooth! I might not find time to take it on a longish trip before I leave for Bangalore.


While fiddling with the Sony head-unit I installed couple of years ago, I found out it displays the battery voltage too. Without the engine running, it is 12.7v and with the engine on, it goes upto 14.4v. So the battery will not need a replacement any time soon.

[ashis89]

Didn't get much time to spend with the RoadRunner but every single time I had to step out into the city, I knew which car to take. Squeeze through the traffic, park in tight areas or rev and upshift at 4k+ RPM, it is possible only in the WagonR.



After the last visit to MASS, for tappet adjustment, the car is back in form and is a joy to drive. Mechanically, very sound on every front. Although, accustomed to the dynamics of the Seltos, I am not comfortable anymore to drive the at higher speeds.

The ICE setup here also sounds better than the Seltos. So much so that I am contemplating upgrading the speakers on the Seltos some time this year.

Reverted the halogen cabin lamps as the LEDs weren't too pleasant on the eye. Osram All Seasons 100/90 bulbs are working well.

Washed it and gave it a coat of polish. Time and lack of care has taken some toll on the paint and windscreen. A full repaint and a new windscreen is what it needs although the lack of use doesn't justify it.






We (between me and father) drove about 500 kms in the past 2.5 months. ODO stands at 91920 kms. If the usage increases in future, I might get a new automatic to replace this. Until then, the RoadRunner continues to serve very well.

[ashis89]

After 11 years of service, the gear knob crumbled and fell off one fine day. Called up the local MASS and they sent a guy home with a new knob. It was replaced in a couple of mins and cost us 420 bucks. As of yesterday, the ODO stands at 92350 kms.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by ashis89

Another long pending upgrade - a leather wrap for the steering wheel - done.

Originally Posted by ashis89

9. The steering wheel cover has started peeling off. It wasn't genuine leather after all!

We had been too lazy to change the worn out steering cover all this time. Last week, I went and replaced it with a new one.

While the cover was being sewn over, I was loitering around the car. That's when I noticed that the front wipers were in tatters. I realized those were the same MGP wipers that I had installed in 2019! I asked the accessory shop guy and he had TVS frameless wipers. Without a second thought, I asked him to install a new pair right away. Since I need MGP one for the rear, I left the rear wiper as is (it is decent shape).

With me being away, the RoadRunner gets very little TLC (eg: tyre pressure had fallen to 27 PSi since my last top-up in Jan!). I wanted to give it another clean-up but
last minute change in my travel plans forced me to drop it.

Odo stands at 92550 kms. Insurance would be due to renewal later this month.