[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Torino

The total service bill came up to Rs 6500.

Wow, thats expensive for an Alto.

Even if I were to ignore the 2700 paid for synthetic engine oil, it is still expensive and yes, as always, they've managed to squeeze in a lot of unwanted items into the bill.

[Torino]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Wow, thats expensive for an Alto.

Even if I were to ignore the 2700 paid for synthetic engine oil, it is still expensive and yes, as always, they've managed to squeeze in a lot of unwanted items into the bill.

Hi n.devdath, yes the bill looks expensive. Please let me know the unwanted items in the bill so that I can avoid in my next service.

The Alto K10's general service interval is once in every 10,000kms/one year. The Brakes cleaning was insisted by me since I think is essential to do every 10k kms and for my usage. Associated with it are the consumables such as 3M spray, grease and WD40. Apart from this I think other fluids top-up done are mandatory. Windshield washer is negligible and I approved for it. 40% of the total cost is labour cost which I think can be reduced/eliminated by getting a Maintenance Cost Protect package.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Torino

Hi n.devdath, yes the bill looks expensive. Please let me know the unwanted items in the bill so that I can avoid in my next service.

The Alto K10's general service interval is once in every 10,000kms/one year. The Brakes cleaning was insisted by me since I think is essential to do every 10k kms and for my usage. Associated with it are the consumables such as 3M spray, grease and WD40. Apart from this I think other fluids top-up done are mandatory. Windshield washer is negligible and I approved for it. 40% of the total cost is labour cost which I think can be reduced/eliminated by getting a Maintenance Cost Protect package.

Attachment 1538448

At 10k km per service, you are spending almost a rupee/km excluding tires, battery, accessories, TLC and any other stuff that you get done to your car.

E-X-P-E-N-S-I-V-E...!!

That said, as per the invoice given to you, here is what could have been avoided easily.

1. Synthetic oil: - Doesn't make any significant difference and is obscenely overcharged.

2. Screen wash: - The reasons are obvious.

3. Brake Fluid: - I do not understand the quantity mentioned. Is is 1 litre? If yes, it is a fraud, if 100ml, it is too expensive. Buy DOT-4 brake fluid and keep it in the car/at home for an annual top up.

4. Coolant: - Again, too expensive for 100ml that they claimed to have used. Not worth it. Keep it at home and top it up when needed.

5. WD-40: - Did they use a full can of it? Did they return the balance to you?

6. 3M Spray: - What is this and how much and where was it used?

7. Consumables: - Something all of us have been fighting about and can be easily struck off the bill. 100.00 for cotton waste??

Coming to labor charges, while the periodic maintenance is something you couldn't avoid, I dont see any sense in paying MASS for vehicle cleaning separately, and, if washing is not covered under PMS, get the car washed at a better washing centre for lesser money.

Brake cleaning is also not mandatory unless you feel that the brakes have reduced effectiveness. This can also be done in 200.00 by your tire wallah (if he wishes to) or any outside garage in 15 minutes.

None of the top ups are EVER mandatory. Only checks are, as a part of the PMS. If you top up on your own, you are good to go.

Hope this helps.

[satanic_dude]

Torino,

Washing is usually included in PMS / paid service as told by Devdath. Not sure if they've shown a break up of costs, or overcharged you. I'll look up my last bills and confirm.

I'll continue the discussion in the other thread about how Maruti Service being cheap, is a myth. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...heap-myth.html

Will be uploading some bill copies there. Need more clarity.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

None of the top ups are EVER mandatory. Only checks are, as a part of the PMS. If you top up on your own, you are good to go.

Hope this helps.

Devdath, thanks a ton for that eye opener. I'll remember these, and keep a close watch next time. In retrospect, I remember having felt cheated at times, for my F8 and K10 Altos. Have decided to mail across some bill copies to all Maruti email IDs that I know, and ask them to verify what is unnecessary. Henceforth, will create more noise. Time to put our foot down.

I recall being charged some ridiculous amount for 'calliper greasing' labour by ABT Guindy, while Vishnu Cars only one charged some small amount for the grease.


Peace,


Regards,
Abhishek

[Torino]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

E-X-P-E-N-S-I-V-E...!!

..None of the top ups are EVER mandatory. Only checks are, as a part of the PMS. If you top up on your own, you are good to go.

Hope this helps.

Hi Devdath, thank you for the useful insight and I saved almost Rs1400 for my friend's Swift yesterday from your post. The ways in which the service centres try to pump the bill for customers is insane.

Originally Posted by satanic_dude

Torino,

..I'll continue the discussion in the other thread about how Maruti Service being cheap, is a myth. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...heap-myth.html

..Peace,


Regards,
Abhishek

Hi Abhishek, thank you for the advice and support. These service centres continue to find new methods to extract money from the customers. I will closely follow the thread.

Thanks.

[CGB]

Hey Torino,
Spotted you driving your Go-kart in OMR around 0945 today near pallavaram-thoraipakkam signal junction. Waved my hand but you didn't notice Must say, she definitely stands out with the subtle changes you made to your car

[Torino]

Originally Posted by CGB

Hey Torino,
Spotted you driving your Go-kart in OMR around 0945 today near pallavaram-thoraipakkam signal junction. Waved my hand but you didn't notice Must say, she definitely stands out with the subtle changes you made to your car

Hi CGB, Thanks. Sorry I missed you some how, I usually keep an eye on other cars on the road. May be next time we will notice From your avatar image I assume you were in your Beige color Honda City, next time on I will be on the look out.

[CGB]

Originally Posted by Torino

Hi CGB, Thanks. Sorry I missed you some how, I usually keep an eye on other cars on the road. May be next time we will notice From your avatar image I assume you were in your Beige color Honda City, next time on I will be on the look out.

I was on my D390, next time i'll barge in front of you like our city policemen and stop you!

Went through your thread. Very informative and seems to be a happy decision by you.

[Wanderlust89]

Hi Guys,

It has been a nice experience driving the K10 around. Coming from a Baleno sedan to a K10 is like compromising on certain areas and winning in other obvious areas. Low end grunt is completely not there with the passenger cabin full. Four people on board with athletic build, in bumper to bumper traffic is an overkill for this car. But since most of the time its me, wife and my kid, puttering around; don’t have much to complain. Feel like its worth the money paid. Hands down, AMT is a winner offering good drive-ability and mileage.

Was just going over the old posts in forum. Found this image in Torino’s post. Even though Maruti hasn’t mentioned the availability of ‘Anti-roll bar’ in the front suspension set up, I think this indicated item in the image is an Anti-roll bar. Can anyone double confirm this?

Since both the Alto 800 and the K10 share the same under-pinnings, I don’t think the K10 would miss out on the Anti-roll bar, when Alto 800 has it. It is even mentioned in the Alto 800’s specification list of Maruti’s official website.

[Torino]

Originally Posted by Wanderlust89

Hi Guys,
Was just going over the old posts in forum. Found this image in Torino’s post. Even though Maruti hasn’t mentioned the availability of ‘Anti-roll bar’ in the front suspension set up, I think this indicated item in the image is an Anti-roll bar. Can anyone double confirm this?

Hi Wanderlust89, Yes that is very much the anti roll bar and the Alto K10 has it in the front suspension set up.

[Torino]

Hi All,

The little Alto K10 AMT crossed 36,000kms in its 1.5 years of ownership recently. The ownership experience so far has been exciting and fun. The car was thoroughly used inside the city for the past 6000kms and as usual the car has been proving its mettle from time to time in being a fun to drive and frugal city car. Off late the traffic condition in Chennai is getting from bad to worse thanks to the METRO rail and several new road infra projects but the Alto has been an excellent tool in providing peace of mind driving experience with its compact dimensions, peppy performance and of course the AMT. The car has taken its fair share of scratches from reckless motorists during the peak hour city traffic in Chennai but this is inevitable and bound to happen one day or the other. The car is primarily used for everyday office commutes which covers 50kms a day and doubles up as our grocery shopping cart during weekends. The car has been a reliable workhorse doing its everyday duties without any electrical or mechanical issues so far. All that the car regularly needs is interior exterior cleaning and some petrol.



Fuel Efficiency:
Petrol is always filled on tank full basis and I prefer unleaded petrol from Bharat Petroleum outlets. The car is always driven with 100% AC because I don’t like dust inside the cabin. The average city mileage hovers around 16kmpl calculated at every tank full. The best city mileage I could get with gentle right foot was 17.4kmpl and the lowest I got with hard accelerations was 13.5kmpl. I think anything around 16kmpl with 100% AC is good for small petrol car standards.

AMT:
After 36,000kms the AMT system performs flawlessly without missing a gear. Transition between D and M mode is seamless at any speeds and at any gear and slotting between D and R is quick and easy during those multiple point turns. The crawl feature during stop and go traffic has been highly useful. One way office commute measures approximately 25kms and it takes 90 to 120 minutes to cover that distance and AMT system is doing its job very well. The car sometimes feels jerky during down shifts especially 3-2-1 in M mode at slow speeds, though this doesn’t happen often I couldn’t figure out the instance why it happens or recreate it. Nowadays I am spotting several AMT cars on the road. Common cars are the Alto, Celerio and sometimes the Swift Dzire and TUV 300 with the AMT badge make occasional sighting. Yes, automatics are gaining popularity on Indian roads and it is a good thing giving the driver peace of mind.

Engine:
The K10’s engine has been a reliable and consistent performer for the past 35,000kms and it continues to be a smooth and rev friendly unit. This K10 engine is a smooth operator, there is no vibration felt inside the cabin and it has negligible effect with the AC. With only the driver on board this little 990cc engine never ceases to amaze with its spirited performance and linear power delivery. The way in which the car gathers speed in each gear and reaching unbelievable top speed with the speedo needle hitting the other end of the speedo is highly commendable. The K10 engine puts out decent low end and midrange performance even with four people on board and the AMT does a good job in selecting the right gear. The engine noise gets fairly audible over 2500rpm thanks to the minimalist cabin insulation.

Exterior and Interior:
The compact dimensions and excellent visibility helps a lot in ease of driving in the city and when parking. The Cerulean blue paint hasn’t faded away anywhere and still looks good as new. Regular cleaning and shaded parking spot is all I ensure to protect the paint. Except for the passenger door panel (squeaking), the other interior plastic panels, dashboard and switch gears are hold on pretty well. I use sun blinds on the rear windows and the AC feels very effective even with the blower speed set at two in hot afternoons in Chennai. The stock stereo with aftermarket rear coaxial speakers puts out decent sound and keeps the occupants entertained at all times. Parking under a tree for shade has its own share of miseries in the form of bird droppings and dry leaves. Recently I noticed the dry leaves getting accumulated inside the front fender panel, coming in from the water drain near the bonnet hinges near the windshield. These dry leaves get soaked in water and have nowhere to go and can cause rusting in the long term.


Had the first puncture at 32000kms


Wheel alignment done at ~32000kms

Tyres and Brakes:
The tyres still have good life on them, by the looks of it they seem to have worn only 50% so far. The stock Bridgestones offer decent grip on both dry and wet conditions at speeds from up to 60kmph that I have experienced so far. And when the tyres wear out I plan to upgrade with wider tyres to improve ride and handling. The brakes offer good bite and as per the service advisor the brake pads have life for another 10,000 kms at least. At around 32,000kms I hit a fairly large speed breaker at ~40kmph on a rainy night which caused steering vibration at 90kmph, wheel alignment was done and the vibration was eliminated

Dry leaves getting accumulated inside the front fender.




Dry leaves get soaked in water and can cause rust from inside. From the left side fender.


From the right side fender, this is the amount of leaves you get after 1 year of parking under tree.
.

Issues:
1.The front passenger door panel has started to make squeaking noise when driving on rough road. This is due to hard slamming of the wafer thin door. Removing and refitting the door panel should solve this.

Pros:
1.Ease of driving with AMT
2.Spirited engine performance
3.Good fuel economy
4.Compact dimensions
5.Chiller AC

Cons:
1.Poor cabin insulation
2.Bouncy ride

Drive Safe!

[Swarit19]

Hey Torino, good to see you still updating the thread. I was actually just reading the entire thread yesterday and wondered how the condition of your car was.

Could you clarify bouncy? Do you mean it is too soft or so stiff that it bounces about on not so good roads. If that is the case then couldn't it be stiffened a bit? I've been quite interested in the power to weight ratio it has but haven't driven it.

[Wanderlust89]

Originally Posted by Torino

Hi Wanderlust89, Yes that is very much the anti roll bar and the Alto K10 has it in the front suspension set up.

Hi Torino

Thanks for your insight on the ARB. Now I am getting some more confidence to do some fun driving in the ghat sections. Or I would mark it a ‘Placebo effect’. Good to see you keeping us posted on your car updates. Keep up the heat.

By the way, the bounciness is one annoying thing for me right from the time of test driving. The previous generation K10 had a comparatively flat ride. So was the other cars from Maruti’s stable, this side of five lakhs. The 1.1 WagonR or the Estilo even, were not so much bouncy. This is actually taking some fun out, of this otherwise “Fun-to-drive” car.

What I predict could be the reason for the bounciness is the soft sprung nature, along with the light weight and a soft ARB. Soft ARBs can give good traction on wet surfaces, improved braking and reduce understeer, but flipside is reduced stability on bad roads. To add to this is the tall vertical dimension and smaller axle tracks (dimension between front or rear axles). There is no better recipe for a bouncy ride.


A stiffer strut brace could improve the dynamics but finding one is a not an easy task. Wider tires could also do the job but at the cost of compromised fuel economy and tighter steering. I’d better off learn to live with it, than to waste time and energy to sort that out.

[Wanderlust89]

Originally Posted by Swarit19

Hey Torino, good to see you still updating the thread. I was actually just reading the entire thread yesterday and wondered how the condition of your car was.

Could you clarify bouncy? Do you mean it is too soft or so stiff that it bounces about on not so good roads. If that is the case then couldn't it be stiffened a bit? I've been quite interested in the power to weight ratio it has but haven't driven it.

Hi Swarit19, by saying its bouncy, we mean the driver and passengers getting tossed around even due to presence of small undulations on the road. Its not sort of stiffness that causes it, but softness of suspension setup. Stiff suspension bounces at low speeds but improves handling at high speeds. Soft suspension absorbs bumps at low speeds but gives a wavering effect for passengers inside at higher speeds driving down confidence to accelerate further. At speeds 70-80 kmph at 5th gear, this effect is pronounced.

There are workarounds for this but that's definitely not going to be walk in the park. It demands time and money. If you have some thought to overcome this issue, please do throw some light.

Coming to the power to weight ratio, yes it has 91 bhp/tonne. Close enough to VW Polo GT TSI. But that doesn't mean you can outrun the GT or the Abarth Punto. The Acceleration owing to the power to weight ratio is outstanding. But sustaining the speed or pushing to top speed is not confidence inspiring due to flighty nature of this car. But you can give a shocker to the bigger cars on the road with its acceleration.

P.S: Power to weight ratio cannot alone be a deciding factor for a car's performance. Kwid 1.0 has a ratio of 96 bhp/tonne. Tiago 90 bhp/tonne. That doesn't mean the Kwid or Tiago can outrun the K10. K10 with its revv-friendly engine can outshine among the competition, even a segment above, if the drive dynamics could be improved a bit.

[Swarit19]

Yep you're quite right and don't worry, I don't expect it to.

Just the initial acceleration should be quite good is what I imagined compared to the 1.2's I've driven that feel slow, lacking of any character & bore you to death. Regarding the suspension setup, I'm not sure how to go about it but I would be more than willing to spend some time on it if it is indeed a necessity. (in a hypothetical situation)

Lately I've been looking specifically for a car that feels tad bit out of control (maybe not the right choice of words as I don't mean out of control as in it's dangerous for others) and it caught my eye after reading all the posts about how it needs constant input at higher speeds etc. Unfortunately all 3 dealerships close to me did not have the vxi ags for a TD today but I have it fixed tomorrow.

Many apologies for posting so much on your thread Torino