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Old 18th November 2017, 22:29   #181
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Default re: My 2017 Skoda Octavia vRS: 2 years and 45k kms

Reached a landmark odo reading today.


2 months and 18 days into my ownership!

Probably the fastest 10k kms on TBHP (leaving aside the TBHP-ian with a Figo ASpire used as a taxi! )
My 2017 Skoda Octavia vRS: 2 years and 45k kms-img_0162.jpg

My 2017 Skoda Octavia vRS: 2 years and 45k kms-img_0165.jpg

My 2017 Skoda Octavia vRS: 2 years and 45k kms-img_0168.jpg
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Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr View Post
The car is brilliant - no doubt on that

Better to keep the car on stock mapping. That will ensure that the car meets emission norms and has engine longevity. Manufacturers tune the engine to a percentage of the max performance that can be extracted. This is for reliability - See the Innovas of 2005. They extracted a puny performance from those but the engines lasted forever

Re-mapping cars may also void warranty and you would not want to that - with a Skoda!
You have a very valid point and that's why I will not be modding my car. Especially in the warranty period.

However, world over, the 2.0 TSI engines have been remapped and modded to get a TON of more power reliably. Of course, life of the engine may be on the lesser side, but it's nothing major. Instead of doing an engine rebuild at 3.0 lakh kms, you may be forced to do it at 2.0 lakh kms depending on the modifications carried out.

APR actually is one company I would totally trust. As Naren has pointed out in the post above they really do a ton of R&D and are very safe. In the US, APR works with VW officially and offer something called APR Plus. This is basically a VW Car remapped right from the showroom itself with VW Factory warranty.

http://www.goaprplus.com/

This is the kind of company APR is. They will not try to go after numbers on their Stage 1 and Stage 2 remaps. While they get a lot of power, they also kee things safe and reliable.

In Europe and USA, APR remapped cars have run tens of thousands of kms without any issue.

In Indian conditions, things may change as the wear on the engine parts is much more due to our poorer quality fuel, slower speeds, more stop-start traffic and higher temperatures overall.

However, I have heard of quite a few Laura 1.8 TSIs running reliably and putting out a ton of power.

For someone who doesnt drive as much as me, an APR remap is a good way to enjoy the full potential of the car. Chances are they will sell it long before any extra wear shows up.

The warranty is of course void on the car. And that's the main reason I'm keeping my car stock. I have 4 year warranty and if any part has to be replaced, I am sure I dont want to give Skoda a chance to reject my claim.

Last edited by Nikhilb2008 : 18th November 2017 at 22:31.
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Old 18th November 2017, 22:38   #182
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Default re: My 2017 Skoda Octavia vRS: 2 years and 45k kms

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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
And that's the main reason I'm keeping my car stock. I have 4 year warranty and if any part has to be replaced, I am sure I dont want to give Skoda a chance to reject my claim.
Nikhil, Perfinzas & offset after-market alloys?
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Old 18th November 2017, 22:42   #183
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Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
Nikhil, Perfinzas & offset after-market alloys?
That wont matter.... Abroad, Skoda gives 18x8j alloys. I'm using 17x8j. OE tyre size. I thought you would realise that the tyre size is the critical factor for tyres. Not the tyre itself.
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Old 19th November 2017, 16:01   #184
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Default re: My 2017 Skoda Octavia vRS: 2 years and 45k kms

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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post

Harmonixx Car Audio in Bangalore.


Obviously, the road being straight, I didnt get a chance to try any cornering or anything. It was all about the engine and it's performance.

I dont think words can convey how fast this car is. I am not very good at doing 0-100 launches (I haven't done even one in Turbo Civic )
.
Sounds awesome, some questions

While I have a lot of respect for APR, how competent is the local support considering the local dealer is an audio installer ? How were all these APR items fitted and tuned competently?

Did you experience any torque steer or I guess existing ASR/ differentials manage this well?
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Old 19th November 2017, 18:53   #185
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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Sounds awesome, some questions

While I have a lot of respect for APR, how competent is the local support considering the local dealer is an audio installer ? How were all these APR items fitted and tuned competently?

Did you experience any torque steer or I guess existing ASR/ differentials manage this well?
HI Ajmat,

Local support is something I cant comment on. Everyone has varying experiences.

However, the hardware installation is extremely easy. Everything is bolt on. It's supposed to take 5-6 hours. I know through FB that this particular Stage 2 car got it's hardware installed at my trusted workshop Blackworks.I am not sure if this is a regular occurence or a one-time thing. I am not sure if the local dealer is working with Blackworks.

After the installation, I met Venkat and he was raving about how easily everything fit. We have faced so many struggles during my Turbo Civic build and while it's common knowledge that these VAG cars have fantastic aftermarket support, it was still a revelation to hear Venkat rave about the ease of installation. He was also all praise for the quality of the APR Cast Downpipe.

The remap is something I havent seen done in front of me. However, I believe it's just about connecting the laptop which contains the software given by APR to the ECU via the OBD port. The new map is flashed in about 20 minutes or so.

Unlike my Civic where the entire map had to be built by Joe and Venkat, in this case, the dealer only flashes the map developed by APR. The tuner cannot make changes even if he wants to.

I believe there is a process of cracking the ECU and then trying to read APR's map to make certain changes but that goes into unethical territory. APR's maps are their property and they have encrypted it to ensure no one can copy their map and claim it as their own.

In any case, when it comes to the tuning world, I whole heartedly believe that there should be some trust and faith with the dealer/tuner. If the customer has even a small doubt with regard to the competency of the dealer, he should stay away.

APR has a few other dealers who are well known and respected in the industry and people who are uncomfortable with an "Audio installer" can go there. N1 Racing is highly respected and reputed and as Dr Naren has posted in the other Octavia vRS Review thread have also done a couple of very nice builds.
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Old 19th November 2017, 19:03   #186
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Default re: My 2017 Skoda Octavia vRS: 2 years and 45k kms

10k already !! I remember on TBHP-ian who wanted to complete first service quickly because he wanted to go on a longer drive. But this one is miles ahead !

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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
Nikhil, What kind of nuts are these ? Are these regular ones that are used on wheels, or something different ?
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Old 19th November 2017, 19:04   #187
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Originally Posted by condor View Post
10k already !! I remember on TBHP-ian who wanted to complete first service quickly because he wanted to go on a longer drive. But this one is miles ahead !

Nikhil, What kind of nuts are these ? Are these regular ones that are used on wheels, or something different ?
Thanks Condor!

These bolts are standard. Just that they are very high quality and are specific to some cars. They are of the perfect length for this rim, the ET, etc.

For example, if I had a different VAG/European car, with a different offset alloy wheels, these bolts wouldnt fit. They would be too long or too short. So, I would need a matching set.

That is the specialty of BBS And PJ Speed Shop. They ensure that they give you the exact specs.

Last edited by Nikhilb2008 : 19th November 2017 at 19:07.
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Old 19th November 2017, 19:06   #188
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Default re: My 2017 Skoda Octavia vRS: 2 years and 45k kms

Ok - I was wondering if these are some kind of coupling nuts. Hence asked.


btw, forgot to add - lovely pics of a lovely car ! And the mods are interesting, to say the least.
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Old 19th November 2017, 19:18   #189
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Default re: My 2017 Skoda Octavia vRS: 2 years and 45k kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
After the installation, I met Venkat and he was raving about how easily everything fit. We have faced so many struggles during my Turbo Civic build and while it's common knowledge that these VAG cars have fantastic aftermarket support, it was still a revelation to hear Venkat rave about the ease of installation. He was also all praise for the quality of the APR Cast Downpipe.
Tuning companies like APR and Revo Technik do lot of research and most of the parts are direct bolt on fit. They even provide clear instructions in the manual.

Quote:
The remap is something I havent seen done in front of me. However, I believe it's just about connecting the laptop which contains the software given by APR to the ECU via the OBD port. The new map is flashed in about 20 minutes or so.
True!! The dealers job here is just to ID the ECU and then flash the APR tuned file.

Quote:
I believe there is a process of cracking the ECU and then trying to read APR's map to make certain changes but that goes into unethical territory.
APR has full access to ECU codes and they make sure it can't be copied by regular remap guys. Nothing is impossible, but it's not easy to crack all the codes and steal APR software.

Quote:
APR has a few other dealers who are well known and respected in the industry and people who are uncomfortable with an "Audio installer" can go there.
I have heard that it's not easy to get APR dealership. There are some requirements and the dealer has to meet all of them while applying for APR dealership. If I am not wrong, APR asks to send pics of garage, lifts, employee data etc.

Quote:
N1 Racing is highly respected and reputed and as Dr Naren has posted in the other Octavia vRS Review thread have also done a couple of very nice builds.
N1 racing has built highest number of APR tuned cars in India. They have the experience and expertise, no doubt!! They have done two stage 2 Octavia RS in Bangalore few days back at Race Concepts.

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 19th November 2017 at 19:21.
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Old 19th November 2017, 21:22   #190
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Default re: My 2017 Skoda Octavia vRS: 2 years and 45k kms

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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post

Instead of doing an engine rebuild at 3.0 lakh kms, you may be forced to do it at 2.0 lakh kms depending on the modifications carried out.

APR actually is one company I would totally trust. As Naren has pointed out in the post above they really do a ton of R&D and are very safe.

While they get a lot of power, they also kee things safe and reliable.
In Europe and USA, APR remapped cars have run tens of thousands of kms without any issue.

In Indian conditions, things may change as the wear on the engine parts is much more due to our poorer quality fuel, slower speeds, more stop-start traffic and higher temperatures overall.

For someone who doesnt drive as much as me, an APR remap is a good way to enjoy the full potential of the car. Chances are they will sell it long before any extra wear shows up.
Congrats on the 10K Nikhil! I've done 15K in 3 years in my car..:(

Despite driving a remapped car (my 1.2 TSI), I sometimes wonder if there's a big catch.

For making a 297 bhp Golf R, VW took the trouble of:
  • New cylinder head (different alloy due to higher thermal stress)
  • New exhaust valves and seat rings (improved temperate stability)
  • Exhaust camshaft
  • Different piston (different compression ratio)
  • Piston cooling jets
  • Higher pressure injectors
  • 2 auxiliary radiators instead of 1 for tropical countries
  • Higher flow main radiator
  • Subtle turbocharger changes - both compressor and turbine
  • 45.2 mm (instead of 42.5) Inducer / 58.0 mm (instead of 54) Exducer
    - Compressor
  • 47.4 mm (instead of 46.8) Inducer / 54.7 mm (instead of 50.4)
    Exducer – Turbine

VW just didn’t do a ‘Stage 1’ remap which would have been so much cheaper...serious engineering went behind it for making it a reliable daily drive.

Also, type in DSG clutch problems, APR stage 1 in google - there are several mentions of a 20K clutch life limit in those saintly EU driving conditions..

So, I think you're being wise by not getting tempted..but I confess, it'll take a saint to not get tempted!

Last edited by d_himan : 19th November 2017 at 21:52.
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Old 19th November 2017, 22:30   #191
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Default re: My 2017 Skoda Octavia vRS: 2 years and 45k kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
Reached a landmark odo reading today.


2 months and 18 days into my ownership!

Probably the fastest 10k kms on TBHP (leaving aside the TBHP-ian with a Figo ASpire used as a taxi! )
Awesome speed to reach 10k kms. Out of curiosity, is this all highway drives or do you have to drive long distances as part of your job?
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Old 19th November 2017, 22:35   #192
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Originally Posted by d_himan View Post
Congrats on the 10K Nikhil! I've done 15K in 3 years in my car..:(
So, I think you're being wise by not getting tempted..but I confess, it'll take a saint to not get tempted!
You're absolutely right. But go looking for problems and you will find it! Search of any brand any component problems in google and you will find it!

In any case, I dont wish to prolong the discussion as I have very little idea about the technical stuff. And most importantly, I have my own reasons for keeping my car stock!

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Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr View Post
Awesome speed to reach 10k kms. Out of curiosity, is this all highway drives or do you have to drive long distances as part of your job?
A bit of both! The long 3700 km road trip to Calicut, Bombay, Surat and back was work. Apart from that I drive a lot for leisure as well!
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Old 19th November 2017, 22:46   #193
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Default re: My 2017 Skoda Octavia vRS: 2 years and 45k kms

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Originally Posted by d_himan View Post
For making a 297 bhp Golf R, VW took the trouble of:
  • New cylinder head (different alloy due to higher thermal stress)
  • New exhaust valves and seat rings (improved temperate stability)
  • Exhaust camshaft
  • Different piston (different compression ratio)
  • Piston cooling jets
  • Higher pressure injectors
  • 2 auxiliary radiators instead of 1 for tropical countries
  • Higher flow main radiator
  • Subtle turbocharger changes - both compressor and turbine
  • 45.2 mm (instead of 42.5) Inducer / 58.0 mm (instead of 54) Exducer
    - Compressor
  • 47.4 mm (instead of 46.8) Inducer / 54.7 mm (instead of 50.4)
    Exducer – Turbine

VW just didn’t do a ‘Stage 1’ remap which would have been so much cheaper...serious engineering went behind it for making it a reliable daily drive.

Also, type in DSG clutch problems, APR stage 1 in google - there are several mentions of a 20K clutch life limit in those saintly EU driving conditions..

So, I think you're being wise by not getting tempted..but I confess, it'll take a saint to not get tempted!
Regarding APR maps I think if the user does not deviate from the guidelines laid down by APR for each stage the car should be reliable because its APR and we also have to factor in the fact that none of these cars would be spending its time at WOT and mostly will be cruising or sitting in traffic (well thats bad for DSG but still) and so the failure rate wouldn't be an unknown if staying within APR spec. But yes what you posted make sense and manufacturers they probably think of the worst case scenario (maybe like car sitting at WOT all its life) and build that for usage. What came to my mind when i read this post is an article i read in jalopnik recently about Ford Focus RS' engine going bust and for an unlucky few it went kaput again after getting fixed. Ford in its wisdom used some improved materials in head and gaskets to extract 40 more horses out of the engine and it ended badly. All of them are stock cars not remapped at all. It is an interesting article.

https://jalopnik.com/why-so-many-for...out-1820280550

An excerpt from the article:

"The cylinder head is produced from an upgraded alloy material capable of withstanding higher temperatures, and is mounted on a more robust head gasket with improved thermal capability. The cylinder block employs stronger high-tensile cast iron liners."

Please move this post to an appropriate thread if deemed offtopic.

Last edited by Sankar : 19th November 2017 at 22:47.
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Old 20th November 2017, 10:44   #194
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Regarding APR maps I think if the user does not deviate from the guidelines laid down by APR for each stage the car should be reliable because its APR and so the failure rate wouldn't be an unknown if staying within APR spec.
Yes, APR is respected. But the user IS taking a BIG risk. No two ways about that. Now, this is ok depending on your objective. But no chance in hell it’ll be as reliable as factory – guidelines or not. Enough turbo failures littered across for anyone who wants to dig deeper.

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
But yes what you posted make sense and manufacturers they probably think of the worst case scenario (maybe like car sitting at WOT all its life) and build that for usage.
I’m not sure what worst case scenario is…2-2.5 lac Km/WOT for x hours/any other. I don’t know. I’m not sure if VW ‘overbuilds’ engines and turbos by 35%-40% of rated horsepower. In my eyes, there is a definite RISK in Stage 1 for the EA888. Important to state that so as to not mislead people by thinking that it’ll be as reliable as factory.

In the end, factory horses are Arabian. Non factory horses are ponies. They’ll get the job done, but don’t know when they’ll drop dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
What came to my mind when i read this post is an article i read in jalopnik recently about Ford Focus RS' engine going bust and for an unlucky few it went kaput again after getting fixed.
.
Yes, read this as well. But Golf R has no such big problems I guess.
Its quite a thing – when manufacturers sometimes get it wrong, it’s a big scary to think how tuners with a 1/1000th of R&D brains would fare if one thinks of reliable daily driving with high mileage usage.
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Old 20th November 2017, 11:38   #195
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Default re: My 2017 Skoda Octavia vRS: 2 years and 45k kms

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Originally Posted by d_himan View Post
I’m not sure if VW ‘overbuilds’ engines and turbos by 35%-40% of rated horsepower. In my eyes, there is a definite RISK in Stage 1 for the EA888. Important to state that so as to not mislead people by thinking that it’ll be as reliable as factory.
Not just limited to VW. All manufacturers upgrade the hardware even for minor power jump. Fiat had changed turbo, high pressure fuel pump etc to make 15 hp more from 75 hp 1.3 MJD.

It's a known fact that increasing the power by after market tuner won't be reliable as factory. Nikhil has already explained about it in previous post that engine repairs would come little earlier. But the question is how many would drive the car that much? If it was me, I would enjoy the car with more horses for 2 lakhs km and not bother much about little early repairs . Nobody is misleading people.
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