[VRJ]

Hello everyone, hope you're all healthy and doing well. My dad and I are in this conundrum, and we are very confused on which car to go with.
Car that we’re replacing is our 2018 Fortuner 4x2 MT. This will be our first purchase from the luxury segment and this is also my first thread. Budget is around 80-90L. Will keep the car for 6-7 years.

What we are looking for in order of priority:

1. Comfortable suspension.
2. Rear seat comfort. We're a tall family.
3. Less body roll over bad roads, speed breakers and highways.
4. Reliability.
5. Comfortable and wide seats (Toyota has spoilt us).
6. Preferably a SUV for easy ingress and to tackle our rural roads.
7. Diesel. Used to diesels low end torque and efficiency from 15 years.
8. Absolutely no pre-owned.

Point 1 and 3 are the major cons of the Fortuner. The body roll in the middle row on bad roads is very uncomfortable. Also, one has to step in to the Fortuner and not slide in like the Innova. Dad is finding it hard to get into the car lately.
Dad is 59 and this will be his retirement car. Will be primarily used by him (chauffeured) and me as well. City and highway usage ratio is around 65:35.
Preference is towards SUV due to two reasons. One being easy ingress (dad has back issues) and second being my dad is a fan of road presence, however, to our surprise none of the Germans (GLC & X3) that fit our budget have good backseats. Poor legroom and under thigh support and horrible recline angle. Not comfortable during long drives.

Current Garage:

2009 Innova with 2,80,000 kms on the ODO.
2018 Fortuner diesel 4x2 MT with 91,000 kms on the ODO.
2023 Innova Hycross with 10,800 kms on the ODO.

I don’t think we ever had to visit the service centre for any repair in the last 14 years. Only scheduled general service. Hard to compare Japanese reliability with the Germans, but I’ll be taking the maximum warranty cover.

Preference of brands:

1. Mercedes Benz: I believe Mercedes entered the Indian market first and it has been my dad’s dream to own one since his bachelor days. The star logo is very aspirational to his generation. So, for him it’s a Benz or no car. However, reliability is an issue with Benz, isn’t it? Consumer report puts BMW much higher than Benz. Also there’s a thread on the forum about Benz maintenance and no such thread for BMW. I’ve read a few BMW ownership threads. GTO 530d, itwasntme 330i, Dr. AD 320d and Graaja 330i GT. Thank you for sharing. It's of great help to prospective buyers. Their ownership experience have been overall positive.

2. BMW: Mine and my sister’s favourite brand. My father in law owns a 2022 520D. I drive it at times, and I recently drove from Vizag to Hyderabad and back. Phenomenal car in every aspect. I feel the quality of materials used in the interior and the fit and finish is higher than Benz. Overall, feels solid.

3. Audi has no diesels and the Q5 is outdated. Q7 Technology is 1.2cr and is out of our budget. Volvo shut shop in Vizag a year back. Range rover, we don’t have a showroom or service centre in Vizag. They’re always ranked in the bottom 5 in a lot of reliability tests. Please don’t recommend a Kodiaq. Lovely car that is VFM, but we’re looking at the luxury segment.

List of cars test driven:

I’d like to mention one thing I’ve noticed during my test drives with Benz. The rattling and creaking sounds are downright embarrassing and surprising. The E class is only 6000 kms run and GLC even lesser. The doors and the entire cabin felt like an old rattling ship. When driven over bad roads and those long speed breakers, there’s this 3D surround sound of rattling and creaking. As if it’s being played by the Burmester sound system, lol. After the end of my first test drive, I informed the salesperson that I want this sorted before the second TD. Spending close to a crore and having a rattling interior is annoying and embarrassing in front of friends and family. Gave him the benefit of doubt as TD cars are abused generally. The issue continued even during our second TD and the salesperson said every new Benz will rattle. There is no permanent solution to this. The rubber compound used by Benz is very heavy and it rattles because of our hot weather. Even the Maybach rattles as per him. Very surprised. My old Innova and Fortuner don’t rattle at all. Maybe Mercedes needs to learn a thing or two about build quality.

1. Mercedes Benz GLC 220D: 91L onroad. (Around 4L discount is offered in Feb):

Pros: Lovely interior. Fabulous stock audio from Burmester (better than harmon kardon in BMW 520d). Good suspension (neither too soft nor too stiff). Has the new 220D diesel with mild hybrid. 197 bhp and 440NM. (E220D has 400NM). Good boot space and alloys.

Cons: None in the family liked the backseat. It’s too upright and cushioning is stiff. The legroom is poor and foot/toe room is non-existent. Cannot stretch your feet under the front seats, which is a big miss. A big no from mom. Headroom was alright though. When driving at a 100, the suspension on the E class felt comfier and it didn’t feel like we were driving 100 kmph, whereas I could feel the speed in the GLC. The front seats are a bit aggressive. The bolstering gets in the way. I’m 6’2.






2. E 220D: Priced at 94L on road. After discounts: 83.5L.

Pros: Comes with AMG-line trim. So, the car looks much better on the outside. Classy and sporty. Satisfies dad and me. The front bumpers and alloys are great. Good stock audio (Burmester, it has two speakers less than the new GLC, 13 vs 15). Never the less, it still sounds great. Absolutely fabulous rear seats. The leg room is great, and you can stretch your feet beneath the front seats. The 36 degree recline is icing on the cake. Suspension is soft and soaks in the bumps. Coming from a Fortuner, I can feel a night and day difference. Parents are mighty impressed with the backseat experience. Good discounts.

Cons: Ingress is a bit hard, when compared to the GLC. But, better than my Father in law’s 520D and brother in law’s A4. Beige coloured steering and flooring. C’mon Mercedes. India is a dusty and a humid country. This makes my life complicated. Look at the attached picture of TD vehicle. Facelift was launched in 2021. It’s an old car. New one is coming in 6 months. Steering is harder compared to GLC. Poor boot space due to spare wheel.







3. BMW 630i GT M-Sport:

Pro: Air suspension offers good ride. Good road presence due to the coupe styling.

Cons: E class looks classier. Rear seat of the E is better. Deletion of features while increase in prices pisses me off. No auto/stop. No digital key. No laser lights. No comfort seats. The M-Sport steering that’s offered in a majority of the cars in BMW just feels cheap to use. Th leather used and the buttons, just didn’t feel premium. My FIL’s 520D X line has a better steering with metal buttons and better fit. The seats are comfier as well. Something just felt off about the car compared to the 5’er. It felt of a lesser quality compared to the 5. Maybe it’s me who feels this way, but the 6 didn’t vibe with me. All the features I mentioned above are present in the signature edition, but that is reserved only for the petrol engine. Recently, a BHP’ian took delivery of a 630i GT signature edition for 75L on-road. That’s a great deal. However, in Vizag, 620d is 86L and 630i signature is 90-91L. No further discounts. 83.5 for a E is a better car than the 6 at 85.

4. X3 20d:

Was most excited to drive the X3, but it turned out to be the worst of the bunch. Horrible back seat. Interior was a big let down. The centre console buttons, my god, I don’t have words. No offence to recent owners. GLC is way superior. Poor sound insulation from the engine. Immediately off the list.

5. GLE 300d: No test drive was available and was also out of our budget. I heard the new GLC is more feature packed than the GLE.

DECISION:

I can't believe we are picking a sedan. The E class has won us over with it's rear seat experience. 83.5L is a good deal. 3 years extended warranty is 2.5 L.

DILEMMA:

The 2023 generation E-class has been around since 2017-18. It was facelifted in 2021. It’s a 7-year-old platform. The new generation E-class is launching towards the end of the year. Expected on-road price is 1.05-1.10 cr. That’s a lot of money for an E-class. But, it’s a brand new generation. We’ll keep the car for 6-7 years and it’ll be fresh throughout its life. While, the current E-class is already old. At the same time, German cars age well. On the other hand, the 5 series LWB is launching this year as well. The new 2024 E-class looks better than the 5, has that fancy super screen and the S-class grille. However, the 5 gets that huge screen in the backseat (same as 7 series).

Do we get the current 2023 E-class for 83.5? or wait for the new E-class and 5 series. If i wait, i'll be spending 20L more for the new generation. Is the extra 20L worth the upgrade?

Thank you for taking your time out to read this thread and offering advice. Cheers!

[AdiSinghV12]

IMO the new E class completely changes the interior game and is an all new model rather than a facelift and rightly to tick all your boxes. 83.5L is also a lot of money so might as well put a little more and get the latest toy. Not to mention the depreciation hit on resale will be massively different than the outgoing one

[L8ButV8]

The rattling in the new E Class is surprising— I haven’t experienced this in the past.

Coming from three Toyotas, reliability and peace of mind will be a huge downgrade with the Mercs. BMW is a little better, but consider the Lexus ES or a used Vellfire. Going by your requirements, the Vellfire might be the perfect car for your dad.

Our E class LWB has done 4k km in 4 years and racked up several lakhs in general maintenance costs. It really doesn’t offer a lot more than the superb/camry range and definitely offers less than the Vellfire.

[abaliga]

Do check if you can get the 350d at a discount, 6 cylinder engines are a dying breed, more so in India, if you can get one now, go for it, never know if it will be launched with the new generation as sales are mostly for the 4 cylinder ones.

[Shreyans_Jain]

First of all, drop the GLC. The car doesn’t have the substance to go with the style, especially at these asking prices. Once the novelty wears off, it’s an average car underneath. Rattling and creaks are a reality of ownership of all new gen Mercs, C and below.

The current E is one heck of a machine, but I will be inclined to wait for the next generation. There are going to be a massive amount of changes, the interior will be totally new and a huge step forward. You will not want to spend 85L and then have buyer’s remorse a few months later. Especially because this purchase is for your father, not yourself. I suggest you wait a while and choose between the next gen cars - E and 5 series LWB.

[VellVector]

Originally Posted by VRJ

Preference of brands:

1. Mercedes Benz: I believe Mercedes entered the Indian market first and it has been my dad’s dream to own one since his bachelor days. The star logo is very aspirational to his generation. So, for him it’s a Benz or no car. However, reliability is an issue with Benz, isn’t it?

I think the point you made of your dad always wanting to own a MB one day should directly disqualify any other brands. A post retirement car, once in a lifetime purchase cannot be judged only by tangible factors.

Next coming to reliability, I don't think a Mercedes is any better / worse than the other Germans. We have had Merc's in our garage for the last 20 years and have not faced any major issues with them.

The service packs can also help you keep a pre-fixed service price for 7 years which can ease your worries. I have a 2016 GLS which was on a 7 year service pack and now a 2022 E350 as my daily drive which is again on the service pack and both have been very reliable cars.

Opposite to your situation, in my house both my Mom and Dad prefer BMWs to Merc's. Personally I feel that BMWs do not age as well as their Merc counterparts. We have an X5 which has not aged nearly as well as the GLS.

A side note - for long term ownership (8 years +) of any German, a good external garage is a must for certain jobs else your cost of ownership will skyrocket.

Originally Posted by VRJ

DILEMMA:

Do we get the current 2023 E-class for 83.5? or wait for the new E-class and 5 series. If i wait, i'll be spending 20L more for the new generation. Is the extra 20L worth the upgrade?

This is a tough call, the new E class is a big step up from the current car. A lot of new tech and it should (hopefully) close a lot of little misses on the current car. But it's expected to come in at around the 1.1 mark. So you are looking at an additional 25-30L jump in your budget. If that works for you then I would wait. But the current E at a good discount is also a very good car to buy.

[Downshift98]

I would suggest you to go the the 2023 E class for the following reasons:

1) You don't know how the new car is going to be specd for the Indian market. There might be features omission and they might be crucial for you.

2) You should definitely go for the merc based on what you said about your dad. My dad is the same and if I go for a luxury, he'd be happy in a three pointed star car which you can see on the bonnet while driving.

3) Shortlist a car for what it offers now. With all what's going around with OEMs increasing the prices and the government norms being changed, take the plung if the E serves your purpose.

[cefiljoseph]

If I were in the market for a new E-class, would buy the current V213 generation over the upcoming one.

The biggest reason for this is - it's the final year model of a generation and you would be getting one of the last batches. Will have the most issues sorted.

As enticing as the newer generation is, it's unnecessarily complicated without offering symmetric value for those complications and the headaches that comes with. For instance, I don't see how the hyper-screen is going to be any more useful than the current screen?

Also, the obvious reason that it's going to be unnecessarily more expensive even for the base petrol.

Hence, would recommend to get the current one with the discounts and the highest possible warranty and service package.

E-Class has historically been a great car, having driven multiple ones from W123, W124, W211, W212, every generation has been special and impresses me over and over how they manage to make one of the most well-rounded cars with the E.

My only suggestions would be to stretch for the 6 cylinder if you can. We have a W211 at home (15-year old Mercedes E280 CDI W211 Review | Buying & Ownership | Curiosity meets the forbidden fruit) and the six-cylinder is the only reason to take the maintenance hit and keep it going. It's one thing you won't regret for sure and the last standing one in the segment to have it currently. All the best with the car and I'm sure you and your parents will have a great time with it. Do long road trips, drive it around, have fun!

[84.monsoon]

I would wait for the 2024 cars. The i5 M60, which is soon to be launched in India will be a preview of what is to come in the G60 series and the new Mercedes W214. The interiors have definitely taken a big leap with new elements like illuminated light bars in the dash which are also touch enabled dash areas. The Benz comes with a super screen that is very attractive as well. There are many other clever features as well and the interiors do look next gen.

[lamborghini]

Your best bet is honestly the Q7 - have to try and get it at a discount when Audi sales are taking place and swallow the fuel bills - underpowered it will not be, that is for sure.

None of the other options are exciting - the E Class with minimal discounts will be an old model which you're buying at full price & truth be told it isn't a great car. Low maintenance is a no go, it doesn't have the best ride and handling in it's segment (6GT wins) either.
Apart from the legroom, there was nothing exceptional about the quality of material used, the ride & handling, or the NVH - especially for it's price.

[newton_meteor]

Lately, I have noticed a trend in Mercedes-Benz India’s strategy where they seem to

• Increase prices every quarter (and claim that their cars have a high resale value)

• Under equip their cars (no seat ventilation, no seat massagers, no projector LED units, fake exhausts)

• Use artico leather (hard seat compound leatherette seats) instead of real leather (plush sink in cushy seats)

• Deteriorating quality (poorly calibrated ADAS, rattles, misaligned panel gaps, delicate interior bits, scratchy plastics in the lower part of the dash)

This shows that they’re clearly short-changing us and are hopeful that their brand recall alone can give them sales

I stumbled upon this video from carwow showcasing issues in the GLS:

https://youtu.be/tz9uHqyAPhg?si=t81YP9y_ubGSKkXC

Attached is a screen grab of a W214 E-class suffering from a similar chrome bar misalignment

If you are spending close to a crore, the car ought to make you feel special for a long time. The current E-class may not be able to do that. Going by Merc’s pricing, the upcoming E-class would be up there filling the gap between the 90L GLC and 1.4Cr GLE.

I think the long wheel base 5-series could be the car you are looking for. It’s going to be much more loaded with equipment than the Mercedes. I heard from friends abroad that even the standard wheel base looks long and wide giving it a special road presence, Happy shopping!

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by VRJ

Is the extra 20L worth the upgrade?

100%.

The nice thing about Mercedes is that you start to see a trickle of technology from their higher end models. The current E on sale has already received Adaptive Suspension (Not to be confused with Air suspension). A feature that was exclusive to the S Class once upon a time. With the new generation, you'll get access to the tech bits the S class had/has and that is a good thing. Might as well wait it out, considering you plan on holding onto the car for a while.

While you're at it, try and sweet talk them into selling you an S Class for the price of the upcoming new E . Maybe they have some New Old stock sitting in the yard or factory.

[hrk997]

Damn, thats a lot of money for the E class. We bought ours at 63L in 2019. The facelift hasn't changed too much, but it's a full 20L over the same car in just 4 years. There's inflation and then there's exorbitant pricing. At this price point perhaps you might be open to more options at a higher premium? You're not too far away from sports cars now.

[sagpatel]

Why not an A6?
Agree Audi does not have a diesel but A6 can be had for 65-70L.

[xtremeshock]

Originally Posted by VRJ

Dad is 59 and this will be his retirement car. Will be primarily used by him (chauffeured) and me as well.

I believe Mercedes entered the Indian market first and it has been my dad’s dream to own one since his bachelor days. The star logo is very aspirational to his generation. So, for him it’s a Benz or no car.

Congratulations on the car.

Completely understand where you are coming from, even though we did not need another car in our garage we ended up getting the C300D (bought it for the engine), for the main reason that it very aspirational car for my Dad who worked very hard and struggled all his life, some things even though impractical just have to be done as we do only live once.