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-   -   Swapping the indicator and wiper stalks in German cars to make them RHD-friendly (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifications-accessories/278496-swapping-indicator-wiper-stalks-german-cars-make-them-rhd-friendly-2.html)

I have been driving with only one hand on the steering for 16 years now; from terrible Bangalore traffic to expressways on smooth light petrol cars to big heavy diesel SUVs.

I completely agree that right side indicators are better, but to swap them? Start this conversation with the service centre and it will end before you even end your question. Even if some miraculous mechanic does it for you, warranty goes for a toss. You wait for warranty to end to get it done? By that time you would have got used to it and will abandon the idea! lol:

Hi,

Keep both hands on the steering wheel. When about to make a manouvere remember MSM . Start by selecting the correct gear for the manouvere.

Use the mirror M,
Signal use the indicator S.
Carry out the manouvere M.

Both hands on the wheel mean you have full control.

Don't rest your hand on the gear lever, even the lightest pressure will cause unnecessary extra wear, and you will not have full control.

Makes no difference which side the stalk is fitted. I drive hundreds of different vehicles regularly as I work in a garage. It only takes a few minutes to adjust.

I have been driving my Grand Vitara for 16+ years, it is a manual and it has indicator stalk on the left. My other cars are automatics and they have it on the right. I see you are in Mysore, which has much lighter traffic than Bangalore.

That said, I agree with the others. My hands are usually on the steering wheel. So, left stalk has never really been a problem that needs to be fixed. If I am turning and need a gear change, I put the indicator first, before reaching for the gear shift. Problem solved.

Why would you need to operate the turn indicator while changing gear?

Curious question, so a swift sold in the UK would have indicator stalks on the left? I wonder how it works in other RHD markets, does Japan and Australia also have indicator stalks on the right like us or left like the Brits?

If I didn't want to buy Virtua/Slavia, this post wouldn't have been there. They are top class engineered cars for Indian Sedan line and if you want to use it in the exact way that Germans use it, here in India, this stalk swap is necessary. It is just an actual mirror image of everything which Germans are failing to make as part of manufacturing cost reduction and companies like Honda are making it for their corresponding LHD countries because they know that Americans and Europeans will get picky about it as I am about German cars. Too bad that Indians are used to getting used to stuffs and hence we are getting all these "used to" talks from soo many people.

Let’s see how the world will react when Volkswagen brings out its steering wheel indicator controls patent implemented in American and European cars. Cause in that, the indicator controls are on the 2 o clock position which will actually be on the same side of the gear for them. I hope then you will understand the pain which I am talking here.

Exactly, thank you. Atleast one person who actually understands the pain here. Getting used to it is something we all can do. If it was an option for me, this post wouldn't have existed. As I said before, I started off with a Matiz which has LHS stalk. The Americans and Europeans here think its not a big deal cause they haven't experienced the pain and the Indians here get used to it as they have in many many other things!

Regarding both hands on steering wheel all the time, again its a pain understood by only those who live in congested traffic areas. Not all time you can follow these "rules".

For the 1st world market, automobile manufacturers keep in mind the driver comfort and mirror things to suit the norm of gear and indicator stalk on opposite sides. And yes, they increase price for that and people will buy it there. It’s the market and their compromising ability meter which governs these things. Mostly only in Indian market we have this problem because here, people want cars for cheap price.

So the manufacturers do cost cutting. If only they understood that there are some people ready to pay more to get proper layouts which enhances driver experience.

I have a Merc and a Verna, and my problem, believe it or not, is that I sometimes mistake the gear lever for an indicator in the merc.

Want to turn left? push the gear lever up (Reverse)! Now that is scary.

I'll stay away from the best practices aspect of this, as a lot of other members have eloquently explained (I concur with them).

But I'd simply not do what you're trying to for 1 simple reason. DO NOT MESS WITH WARRANTY IN GERMAN CARS.

That's it. No other reason required to avoid this change. With all the complex electronics in modern German cars, I'd simply want my warranty intact for as long as I can.

This is, without exception, a Bad Thing.

Currently we have two cars with the exact same layout as the OP mentioned. A 2008 Hyundai Santro zing with indicator on right and wiper on left. Come to the Slavia, the positions are just switched. I had told this to my father before we bought the car, so he remembered that. Our driver, who is a veteran, and has always driven cars with stalks in the " correct " orientation, also has not ever mistaken the control in the Slavia. Now is it worth the hassle of remembering ?- No. But do we have a solution - I can't think of any. Also, you must remember that in Japanese and Korean cars, you switch on the headlights from the right side stalks. But in Slavia , you have to use the rotary switch placed on the dash to turn on the headlights. That's the way things are. Just drive on and you'll soon forget it.
But if you do get a solution, do keep us posted. It would solve the problems of many others who have complained of the stalks positionings.

I have driven in both India and UK. In fact learnt to drive in India. It is not difficult to have both hands on steering wheel and changing gear takes about a second. Before you think I am against the option of having similar controls on the same side for cars sold in a region then you are wrong. I agree it perhaps should be like this but it is in no way a deterrent from buying a better car.

Like mentioned by other members here it is not at all difficult to getting used to. I operated the wipers just 1 or 2 times when trying to indicate when I was new to driving in UK.

I have swapped between driving a geared motorcycle to an automatic scooter and never have I tried to reach the clutch or foot brake on the Auto. Same when driving a manual car vs Automatic transmission. You just have to focus for the first couple of Kilometers. For example, don't listen to music when getting used to driving a car with slightly different controls.

OT: Your first instinct should be to control the vehicle and not try to flash or honk. :)

The industry is catering to two very different markets. Automotive manufacturers do keep comfort on mind, else you wouldn't have got ventilated seats, cruise control, etc from mainstream car brands in India today. Budget cars in the West also don't have fancy features, you get what you pay for. Majority buyers in India still look for a car as Luxury. If they do insist on having certain luxury features then like myself they should go for the used car market where you get more bang for buck.

I don't think it is something so serious that it warrants such a modification. You just need some getting used to. I'm sure plenty of people on this forum, myself included, own multiple cars with different configurations. It was a bit confusing at the beginning, but now I'm completely used to it and I can seamlessly switch between different cars without any trouble. Coming to whether you can swap the indicators, it should be possible and it would be a pain to source the parts. Also, check whether it would hamper the warranty on the car. If so, then it's totally not worth it! Better get used to it and don't let something trivial like this stop you from driving something that will deliver you pure happiness. :)

Lets put you in the following situation: You are driving at 80kmph at pitch dark night on an expressway (yes our expressways are not lit if you ever observed), and you are in the process of changing the gear from 4th to 5th on the rightmost lane, and suddenly, a brainless villager walks into the road casually. Following the law of not using dip light all the time, you are in dim lights, and you see the villager. You are in the process of changing the gear remember. If you had the stalk at RHS, you would immediately flash the pass while in the process of changing the lights. These things has happened to me, and pretty sure has happened to others who drive in India. If they say it hasn't happened, they are just lying. Now tell me, is driving at 80kmph on expressway a bad thing? What control can you do here when you see the idiots walking casually on the expressway apart from flashing lights? And lets be realistic, moving the hand from gear to steering wheel take 200 to 300ms which are significant in such situations. I am not sure why the people in this community are in the "get used to" mode! As I said, unless it happens to dominating countries like German or US, it won't be understood!!!


Ventilation seats, cruise control etc doesn't require two different designs for LHD and RHD. Its about R&D and cost savings which these companies are doing. If these European manufacturers keep this in mind and design a single car with the indicator stalk swap, then they will realise the growth in their sales because I am pretty sure there are many people like me (who may not be in this community) who wants the indicator stalk at the right place!

This may sound like a weird explanation but 2/4 of my German cars are manual and due to this my left hand is generally engaged with changing the gears while the right hand is usually stationary controlling the steering.

Since the left hand is already in usage, it makes it somewhat easier for me to use the same hand for the turn indicators and feels more “in-sync”. To be honest, this has never been an issue and becomes 2nd nature after a while. I’ve actually come to prefer it to be this way now.

Hi!

Did you ride two wheelers?

I rode a variety of them, few with gear shifters to the left, few to their right. Few had their shift patterns entirely different (2 strokes had the opposite of what most 4 strokes offered). Not boasting, but I never erred there. My first ever car had wiper stalks to their right. I never accidentally switched them on.

It's a muscle memory thing, if you keep driving, you will get used to it sooner than you think. The more you think, the harder it will be to adapt.

I understand that it is not ideal; just as I stated in my previous post. However I do believe that you are making it out to be a bigger problem than it really is. At the end of the day all my cars are manual and I don’t feel like my left hand is constantly busy shifting gears at any given point in time that it cannot be bothered with any other task. We all still use our left hand to use the aircon controls or the windscreen wiper if the stalks were as they ought to be.

How long is this gear change taking? lol:

No driving at 80kph on an expressway is not a bad thing but cruising in the rightmost lane, is. That is the passing lane to be used only for overtaking. Besides I would not recommend shifting to 5th gear when on the right or left most lanes of any highway since such things can always happen thus it is better to keep the car in a gear that will allow for better braking and steering ability. 5th/6th gear is only for cruising which one ought to do in the middle lane simply because it is the safest and gives you space on both sides to react when such situations occur.

Ever noticed that all stereos have the volume knob on the left side? Be it aftermarket or integrated. Now ofcourse we have steering mounted controls but I don’t recall people in the UK complaining about the pain they had to suffer because the volume knob of their stereo was mounted on the left side.

Ergonomics are a very relevant topic of discussion and different cars from different manufactures get it right down to the last detail and some just don’t. For the most part it is fairly uniform I think you might be doing either too much gear shifting or too much light flashing if you are finding this so unbearable. Again let me make it clear that I agree that the light stalk ought to ideally be on the right and if you do find a way to make that modification many of us would like to know about it but in the meanwhile I don’t think the issue is as large as you are making it out to be. Perhaps try shifting gears less often it will teach your right foot a lot in terms of throttle control.