[aghate]

Originally Posted by SpeedBird

Lets put you in the following situation: You are driving at 80kmph at pitch dark night on an expressway (yes our expressways are not lit if you ever observed), and you are in the process of changing the gear from 4th to 5th on the rightmost lane, and suddenly, a brainless villager walks into the road casually. Following the law of not using dip light all the time, you are in dim lights, and you see the villager. You are in the process of changing the gear remember. If you had the stalk at RHS, you would immediately flash the pass while in the process of changing the lights. These things has happened to me, and pretty sure has happened to others who drive in India. If they say it hasn't happened, they are just lying. Now tell me, is driving at 80kmph on expressway a bad thing? What control can you do here when you see the idiots walking casually on the expressway apart from flashing lights? And lets be realistic, moving the hand from gear to steering wheel take 200 to 300ms which are significant in such situations. I am not sure why the people in this community are in the "get used to" mode! As I said, unless it happens to dominating countries like German or US, it won't be understood!!!

We will have to write an Encyclopaedia and an entire library filled with it for all the scenarios you will come across in Indian Traffic. My point still sticks to keeping the control of your vehicle than trying to do anything else. You can still control your car regardless of the gear it is in and/or speed. And I don't understand this mentality behind flashing and honking first than braking and/or taking an evasive manoeuvre and being in control of the vehicle in that situation. You don't have to or need to be changing gear in such a situation.

Ventilation seats, cruise control etc doesn't require two different designs for LHD and RHD. Its about R&D and cost savings which these companies are doing. If these European manufacturers keep this in mind and design a single car with the indicator stalk swap, then they will realise the growth in their sales because I am pretty sure there are many people like me (who may not be in this community) who wants the indicator stalk at the right place!

My response was towards comfort of cars which you had mentioned which is why I mentioned the above. I am struggling to understand comfort vs cognizance. Where the car's functions reside is towards getting acquainted with it.


P.S.: This is getting into a senseless debate and I am withdrawing from it.
Drive safe.

[SpeedBird]

Originally Posted by aghate

And I don't understand this mentality behind flashing and honking first than braking and/or taking an evasive manoeuvre and being in control of the vehicle in that situation. You don't have to or need to be changing gear in such a situation.

It is not changing gears in such a situation, it is the event of the situation while changing gear. I can't digest the fact that you are supposedly one of these car enthusiast and still fail to understand the concern here. Using knobs, stereo is almost a one time or a rear thing which can be done with left hand. But indicator while lane changing and using the pass before overtaking are two basic things, which are mentioned in the rule book by the way, are difficult to practice with this messed up indicator stalk setup. If you don't want to accept the fact that its a pain for some people, please better withdraw from this conversation and let others who actually have an issue with this speak up!

Originally Posted by aghate

My response was towards comfort of cars which you had mentioned which is why I mentioned the above. I am struggling to understand comfort vs cognizance. Where the car's functions reside is towards getting acquainted with it.

Drive safe.

Ask the same questions to people who drive in LHD countries if they are genuinely okay of all their cars gets RHS indicator stalks.

[BlackPearl]

I think everyone is saying the same thing here and it does not seem to be working. So I will try to give a different viewpoint. I believe if one is an auto enthusiast and loves driving cars, it does not matter which side of the steering the wiper stalk or the light stalk is, whether the headlight switch is on the stalk or is a totally different rotary switch on the console. In fact in my Defender the rear wiper switch is not even on the stalk, it is a separate button on the center console. Do I complaint? No, in fact I love such quirks with different models of cars, it makes them interesting. Do such quirks make the cars unsafe to drive? No, it is always the driver. A good driver always adapts his ways to drive the car and does not fuss or bother about such things.

[tbppjpr]

Somehow related to the topic, hear the man who is now an institution in himself, I adhere every word about he said in the 3 minutes after 11:00:

https://youtu.be/YpVwfTerWBg?si=BLPElG16-FjvbSYm&t=662

[Nalin1]

Originally Posted by SpeedBird

It is not changing gears in such a situation, it is the event of the situation while changing gear. I can't digest the fact that you are supposedly one of these car enthusiast and still fail to understand the concern here. Using knobs, stereo is almost a one time or a rear thing which can be done with left hand. But indicator while lane changing and using the pass before overtaking are two basic things, which are mentioned in the rule book by the way, are difficult to practice with this messed up indicator stalk setup. If you don't want to accept the fact that its a pain for some people, please better withdraw from this conversation and let others who actually have an issue with this speak up!

Speedbird I can relate to exactly what you are saying. On a Nissan Terrano, just as I was shifting gears, a car parked on the side started moving and joined the road (very easy to visualize for anyone). I swerved right to avoid and was well aware of another car on my right!. Wanted to turn on the indicator and make the change, but my left hand was on the gear lever!. So I made the move without indicating and of course, the guy behind was maintaining a safe distance and was alert. But I was furious that I could not indicate and move .

Anyway that was very much a one off case and I drove for around 35,000 kms with the indicator on the left without any issues.

Now on the swapping, I had asked the same question to the service center guys once and he looked at me with a shock!.

No one ever will do it for you.

[Turbohead]

I think your best bet is to look at the UK, Australian or Japanese market to see whether such parts are available. Else you should try building such a product and probably sell them too - after all, you're willing to do anything apart from adapting to the original configuration.

Been driving a manual Vento with the indicator and high beams on the left stalk for the past 10 years and 1.5 lakh kms with many extensive night drives in 2,4 and 6 lane highways with all sorts of traffic and roads across TN, KL and KA, AP to an extent. Trust me, it's super easy to adapt within a few 100kms including flashing, indicating on busy 2 lane highways at night.

But something tells me you'll go ahead and build a new system for yourself.

[AlwaysASwifty]

Went through the thread. It would be interesting for an industrial design person to perhaps explain why there are many differences in design and which ones are the most ergonomic.
My personal experience, I have driven the following 2 wheelers
1. Bajaj Chetak
2. Kinetic Honda
3. Bullet Thunderbird
And the following cars
1. Alto
2. Santro
3. Swift
4. Polo
5. i10
6. WagonR
& the recent acquisition Hyundai Verna. Driven for over 25+ years all over the country. And while it did take some practice to get used to the different gears/ indicators/ brakes, it essentially came down to situational awareness and defensive driving. I have over the last 12 years alternated between my Swift and my wife’s Polo and have very seldom had a confusion regarding the indicator stalk. In instinctive situations too, at least speaking for self, having both hands on the wheel and braking/swerving are the first avoidance maneouvers when avoiding any impact/ collisions. For the most part, these situations have been rare as I drive patiently and with the mindset of safety first. Can proudly say that I haven’t ever had any accident in all these years of driving and I hope it stays that way. Net, net - if you really like a car, you should learn to adapt to it’s quirks, or if you can’t live with the quirk, then perhaps consider the cars which come closest to all the parameters you desire.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by SpeedBird

200 to 300ms is the typical time on which you would sure agree on.

The average manual car driver takes between 500 ms and 1 s to perform vertical gear changes (i.e. 1st-2nd, 3rd-4th, 5th-6th) and 1 - 2 s to perform horizontal gear changes (i.e. 2nd-3rd, 4th-5th).

[DocwithFiesta]

Originally Posted by AKSarkar1

This may sound like a weird explanation but 2/4 of my German cars are manual and due to this my left hand is generally engaged with changing the gears while the right hand is usually stationary controlling the steering.

Since the left hand is already in usage, it makes it somewhat easier for me to use the same hand for the turn indicators and feels more “in-sync”. To be honest, this has never been an issue and becomes 2nd nature after a while. I’ve actually come to prefer it to be this way now.

I have been following the thread for a while and this is the exact point I wanted to put forth. My Fiesta has the indicator stalk on the left and I feel comfortable this way. It just becomes easier to do the things simultaneously with the left hand and dedicating the right hand solely for the purpose of maneuvering the car.

My Grand i10 has the stalk on the right side and I do not prefer it that way.

At the end of the day, we subconsciously adapt. This is not a life and death situation and doesn't require such intense discussions, in my opinion, to be honest.

Also, if OP somehow manages to find a way to get things swapped, my request would be to check with the service center and insurance company, if after doing such changes, the insurance and warranty on the car remain vaild.

Regards.

[ExtremePocca]

Originally Posted by SpeedBird

Is there anyway I can flip the stalks on these German cars as part of modification? I don't care about reversed words, unusual looks of the steering dashboard. I need the comfort of having the stalk at right side.

Has anyone tried it before and can guide me here?

Guys, this is the most pointless thing that I have ever read in my life. What is the point of arguing about sudden villager apparitions and long gear shifts when clearly there is only one solution to this problem. The cold, hard truth is, OP will have to adjust to this new unfamiliar way of driving. The stalks simply cannot be flipped as you would have to find a way to somehow turn them upside down and fit them (impossible), which leaves OP with just one workaround, fabricating brand new stalks and mounts and praying that the wiring can be loosened and wrapped all the way around to the new stalks before installation.

I admit, I have never driven a car in my life, but what 3 years of driving on very realistic simulators has taught me, is that most cars have a gear which features ratios versatile enough for very low to medium-low speeds. In our XUV3OO, that gear happens to be 2nd. In 2nd gear you can get away with starting from standstill and going all the way up to 40 while still being at a respectable RPM. All you need for this is decent clutch control, which OP should have considering he has been driving for a fairly long time, and a torquey engine, which both the 1.0TSI and 1.5TSI are. Learning to tame the magical 2nd gear only took my dad a couple hundred kilometers and soon he was barely taking his left hand off the steering wheel.

All in all, there really is no reason for OP to be cribbing about the indicator stalks being the wrong way round (subjective).

And, to put rest to the villager debate; I feel that instead of quickly reaching to flash at the mindless villager, OP should have simply swerved away had the situation been that dire. if OP feels that there would have been enough time to flash and warn the villager, had his left hand not been occupied by the action of shifting gears, he could instead use his right hand (which I hope, for his safety, remains on the steering wheel at all times) to lay on the horn and give the villager a stronger cue to get out of the way than just a flash of the lights.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

The average manual car driver takes between 500 ms and 1 s to perform vertical gear changes (i.e. 1st-2nd, 3rd-4th, 5th-6th) and 1 - 2 s to perform horizontal gear changes (i.e. 2nd-3rd, 4th-5th).

Yes, I had the same question.

Originally Posted by SpeedBird

200 to 300ms is the typical time on which you would sure agree on.

Can you please post a video of you changing the gear in 200-300ms? You don't need to be moving. Just do it when the car is parked and ignition is off. I really want to know how it is done.

[Clayton Crasto]

Originally Posted by SpeedBird

If you don't want to accept the fact that its a pain for some people, please better withdraw from this conversation and let others who actually have an issue with this speak up!

You should probably take a vote on how many people driving European / Indian / Japanese cars over 100 kms still can't get used to the stalks.
As for me, I own a Polo and it's my daily driver. My mom owns a Tiago that I take out occasionally - maybe once in three months or so. I never make a mistake with the stalks.
It just comes to me naturally.

[Doonite]

I find it quite disturbing that you have replied to almost every post with so much venom and labeled people as inexperienced because they tried to educate you on proper driving practices?! This isn't an echo chamber mate, you will get different response that *might* not agree with your viewpoint.

Coming to your original point, driving with one hand on the steering wheel is just wrong, period. (Very special exceptions might be there, mentioned below)

Having driven all across India, from my dad's humble Santro, to an Ertiga, then a Fortuner and sometimes a Merc E class, I have always kept both my hands on the steering wheel without having an issue while Changing Gears/Changing Lanes/Indicating/Flashing. And yes, I have come across all your scenarios (Frequent travels to UP) and it has not been an issue, ever.

I mentioned these cars above because they had very different steering feedbacks with Fortuner being the heaviest and Santro being the lightest, but still hands on the steering wheel, 10 and 2.

Only exception, atleast to me, is hill driving in choked cities like Mussourie/Manali etc where you need to half clutch quickly while dropping the handbrake so that your car doesn't roll back!

I haven't driven the Germans for more than a 1000km in total, so I can't comment on the long term practicality of the opposite stalk placement. However, I did embarrass myself couple of times operating the wipers instead of the indicators

[androdev]

If you are an enthusiastic/spirited driver, I would imagine having both hands on the wheel is the most important requirement. I can't imagine a spirited drive with only a single hand on the steering wheel.

A lot of us feel the need to have indicator stalk on the opposite side of gear shift level - not for the reasons you mentioned (shift/pass/flash/crash) but just to avoid getting confused between wiper and indicator stalk. Unfortunately this is almost an impossible DYI and most manufactures use the same indicator+wiper stalk for their LHD+RHD cars.

Just a couple of cars that I regularly use have so many differences that I have learned to avoid relying on muscle memory for a lot of controls:
Indicator/wiper: LHD vs RHD
Lights: Japanese have it as part of indicator stalk, EU have it has a separate dial on the dash.
Central-lock button: Differs for each car
Hood/boot/fuel-lid opening controls: Lot of differences
Fuel-lid location, fuel-type: Not same
Seat controls: Differs for each car.
Music controls: Differs for each car.
Automatic transmission: MB has it on the steering column, others on central console. Sports mode is different for each car.
Parking brake: Most have hand brake, Camry has a foot brake, MB has a button on dash, BMW has it on central console
Keys: keyless, remote key, start-stop button on the left vs right along with auto-start-stop

The list is never ending and most of these are frequently used controls. Thankfully I don't have a French car

The only muscle memory that work is for A,B,C pedals, seat belts and steering wheel. Even that's also a doubt with one pedal operated EVs becoming more common. Embrace change :-)

[Rajeevraj]

To answer the specific question, it is definitely not worth the time,effort, money, warranty impact etc to do this even if it is possible. Don't think this should be a deal breaker for purchasing these cars if all other requirements are lining up.

I have been driving a Vento for close to 11 years now and for me the left side placement for indicator is most natural and I prefer it that way. When I drive other cars with indicators on the right, the moment I sit in the car, my mind registers the fact that indicators are on the right and I adjust accordingly. It is the same when I drive a manual. This is a much bigger mental adjustment and still takes a few seconds.