[vikramvicky1984]

Dear V12,
Lovely thread, bikes are not just about 0-60, kmpl figures. Some of us just need them to get a life, chalao toh dil khush ho jaana chahiye bas

I have also booked a Classic 350 due in march '12, honestly I am not too keen on it anymore
And I am facing similar dilemma, need a daily drive that is fun too in Mumbai

Though I am even more confused but its easier to give suggestions
Here it goes :

Option1: Get an RX yamaha put on disc brakes up front and good tyres,
To me,Nothing can match the sheer pleasure at low and moderate speeds, i.e. real world mumbai traffic. Grab it if you can get one or pass on leads to me. No plastics, you wont think twice going over broken patches to cut through traffic
Pain involved : finding a good Rx at a reasonable price.

Option2 : R15 or cbr 250 : if you can pay so much and ready for the long waiting periods ( license raj is back thanks to Honda Yamaha & Royal enfield)

Option3: Karizma : read through all ZMA versus ZMR discussions yesterday & talked to friends owning ZMR. ZMA with tubeless tyres is better ( keep looking for a deal/jugaad on rear discs though). ZMA is a good all rounder bike and better than anything else around if one doesn't care about it being outdated and resale.

To sum: try getting a good RX or buy a ZMA which is readily available.

Hope it helps

[aargee]

Just a note on Rx, RD, Jawa or any 2 strokes...
Having owned 2stokes for over 14+ years (and still), all I found was, they're simple to maintain, PROVIDED, the mechanism is known inside out or with a trust worthy mechanic (which is like finding Horse with horns). I've been servicing my Rx with a mechanic (who's known to be one of the best, which is also true) for over 10+ years; each time I get it serviced, it runs fine for a month or so, after which it starts showing its true colors, oil leaks, hard gear shifts, hard clutch & throttle cables & little niggling things; when you ask, they say two strokes engine oil needs to be changed every 3K kms (damn it!!!), that spare is not found, this one is not found, local makes are better etc. Finally I got frustrated & I learned a little on them for over a year & that little knowledge helped me to rebuild my Rx part by part all by myself at home. So atleast now, I'm confident of working on it myself OR know when, where & what to change.

Point - Unless one finds a real trust worthy mechanic for 2strokes OR learn the mechanics of RX/RD, mechanics are going to have fun & not the owner.

Two of my friends said few months ago..."Dude, the era of two strokes are over" & called Rx/RD (and the MM540/CJ3B's) as "White Elephant"; I realized this truth with my C250R. How true statement these statements are!!!

Today's modern 4S have very much niggling issues & infact are at par or even better than the 2 stroke motorcycles & yields better FE.

[v12]

Thanks for all your valuable suggestions guys.

I never knew thr Karizma R was still in production. I thought the ZMR replaced the Karizma R - have not seen a new Karizma R on the roads for a long time. I have read that the Karizma is a good bike for long rides as well as city riding. The seats are also very comfortable - mileage is not so great and spare parts are expensive. However will have a look at the Karizma R too.

Abhinav.s : I found your RTR160 review very useful and was sad to read that you had to let it go. So did you pick up te ZMA or the FZ-16 as a replacement bike?

Vivek_vt : I agree with you that the Avenger would be a trouble-free, no-nonsense bike. I had the Eliminator for 3 years and not once did the bike let me down. There were a few issues with the quality of parts - however no problems at all mechanically. The bike would start with 1 press of the button, even though it was left unused for more than a week. Its a good bike - but frankly speaking I never enjoyed riding it a lot. I used to wash and polish it more than riding. At the end of 3 years, it had only done 9000 kms.

All : The CBR250R is completely out of the question - theres no way I want to spend 1.6 lakhs on a bike at this moment.

LeePower : A 2nd hand 2-stroke bike is totally out of the question. I do have an RX100 which was modified into a Cafe Racer (and it was extremely uncomfortable) - so we got it back to stock and is already on sale. The RX is a fun bike but requires frequent attention and maintenance as with all other old bikes.
I agree 100% with you aargee - the era of 2-strokes are over. Modern 4-stroke bikes are more powerful than older 2-strokes, are more reliable, spare parts available and return a better mileage. The RX100 was also one bike that I have always wanted to own. But after living with one for 3 years - theres no way I want to buy one for a daily use.

[dkaile]

Dear V12,

I find you are in exactly the same dilemma that I was in 2004 when I was fed up of my Bullet 500. It was one the 1st bikes of NCR region which I had been driving for the past few years. Oil leaks, cracked cylinder head etc. were some of the 'minor' problems which I had faced in its life history. Broke my back when starting it up in winters. Well, I had bought it for just 40~45K at that time and sold it off for 20K.

After that I reverted back to Hero Honda (Karizma @70K) and am living peacefully and trouble free with it till date. However it has done a incredible mileage of just 4K during these years...LOLz (I use it just for my tennis runs to get a breath of fresh air in the morning). Its for sale if you want it, in nearly brand new condition even after so many years.

[Sheel]

Hi!

Can you hang around a bit more? New Pulsars are rumored to hit the showrooms by Diwali, if not expect a launch shortly after the auto-expo or at the expo itself.

Else, the Karizma it is. Would a pre-owned R15 ring the right bells?

[VW2010]

Just my thought.

If you are looking at a bike for city traffic there is nothing that beats the Activa or the similar looking TVS and Honda bikes. Hassle free and drives so easy. Has enough power to drive at 60-70KMPH and still leads out in the traffic situation.

Better placed legs and even better frame position gives great riding comfort.

To me a city bike is as simple as an automatic scooter. And with your plans to buy a 600cc in the future, i would pick a simple automatic scooter and save the rest of the money for the 600cc. And the resale value of these automatic scooters are not at all bad.

Second suggestions:-

4 stroke i feel you have a lot of choices. Hulk is something i would recommend for it has a decent engine spec and the seating position is so good compared to the Pulsar or even the Yamaha.

Karizma is good but unless you like the handle bar set up you would regret your decision all year.

Avenger - Please test drive this bike. From a bullet you may not feel comfortable with its seating position. I am tall and i cant stand an avenger. I like the eliminator though.

I am an avid fan of the TVS Apache. They are innovators in bikes and were the first to introudce the rear disc as well as ABS. I will pick a tvs 180 over the pulsar anyday. And remember that TVS keeps innovating every year.

[abhinav.s]

Originally Posted by v12

Abhinav.s : I found your RTR160 review very useful and was sad to read that you had to let it go. So did you pick up te ZMA or the FZ-16 as a replacement bike?

Well to cut a long story short, I bought the FZ16 in May '11 and was handed a classic lemon. I did 5000 kms in 3 months and sold it off in July '11 when reliability on long rides was compromised. I did not opt for the ZMA as i felt it was not value for money priced at 92k on road Bangalore and does not even provide tubeless tires!!
I am now a happy camper with a pearl white RTR180 and as your title suggests, its putting a wide grin inside my helmet whenever i ride it in the city. The long rides will start from this weekend onwards and am looking forward to it.

@VW2010, while the gear-less scoots are a good practical option for the city, you cannot take them on occasional highway rides and the main criteria of V12 which is to enjoy the bike and put a smile on the rider's face cannot be satisfied by a gear-less scoot.

[shubhamAT]

Originally Posted by VW2010

If you are looking at a bike for city traffic there is nothing that beats the Activa or the similar looking TVS and Honda bikes. Hassle free and drives so easy. Has enough power to drive at 60-70KMPH and still leads out in the traffic situation.

True for all automatic 2 wheelers, but i don't find them safe enough for riding on Ring-Roads especially the ones embellished with pot-holes and speed-breakers (e.g ORR in Bangalore). The small wheel size does not give a safe feeling on such roads. And with a pillion all that power is not enough. I will say automatics scooters available in India are more suitable for Tier 2 Cities or neighborhood errands only where driving above 50 rarely happens.

Stick to a bike: ZMA, Unicorn, Apache all are good. IMO.

[v12]

Originally Posted by dkaile

Dear V12,

I find you are in exactly the same dilemma that I was in 2004 when I was fed up of my Bullet 500. It was one the 1st bikes of NCR region which I had been driving for the past few years. Oil leaks, cracked cylinder head etc. were some of the 'minor' problems which I had faced in its life history. Broke my back when starting it up in winters. Well, I had bought it for just 40~45K at that time and sold it off for 20K.

After that I reverted back to Hero Honda (Karizma @70K) and am living peacefully and trouble free with it till date. However it has done a incredible mileage of just 4K during these years...LOLz (I use it just for my tennis runs to get a breath of fresh air in the morning). Its for sale if you want it, in nearly brand new condition even after so many years.

Hi dkaile
My brother currently is facing a problem with replacing the Bullet. He insists on retaining the Bullet or replacing it with a Classic 500 or the 350 UCE. But I am not sure how much better is the UCE compared to the AVL. The new Enfields require to be serviced only at the A.S.C's. All the so-called Bullet experts are actually experts - but at the CI Bullets. I hate to say - but all of these experts have messed up with my Bullet while servicing it (including the ASC).

Regarding the Karizma - I need to try it out and see if it does fulfil my main requirement - . If yes, I will definitely consider this as an option. I have no doubt your bike will be in excellent condition - but my focus is more on a brand new bike. The feeling of buying a brand new bike is very much different and incomparable to a second hand one (not matter how new it is). Would love to see pics of your bike though.

Originally Posted by Sheel

Hi!

Can you hang around a bit more? New Pulsars are rumored to hit the showrooms by Diwali, if not expect a launch shortly after the auto-expo or at the expo itself.

Else, the Karizma it is. Would a pre-owned R15 ring the right bells?

Hi Sheel, I would not mind waiting for some more time. But waiting would only mean newer bikes with probably more features and a higher price. And for some reason I would not buy a Pulsar. Nothing against it - but definitely not a Pulsar.

Karizma - Yes, willd definitely try and consider it.

Originally Posted by VW2010

Just my thought.

If you are looking at a bike for city traffic there is nothing that beats the Activa or the similar looking TVS and Honda bikes. Hassle free and drives so easy. Has enough power to drive at 60-70KMPH and still leads out in the traffic situation.

Better placed legs and even better frame position gives great riding comfort.

To me a city bike is as simple as an automatic scooter. And with your plans to buy a 600cc in the future, i would pick a simple automatic scooter and save the rest of the money for the 600cc. And the resale value of these automatic scooters are not at all bad.

Second suggestions:-

4 stroke i feel you have a lot of choices. Hulk is something i would recommend for it has a decent engine spec and the seating position is so good compared to the Pulsar or even the Yamaha.

Karizma is good but unless you like the handle bar set up you would regret your decision all year.

Avenger - Please test drive this bike. From a bullet you may not feel comfortable with its seating position. I am tall and i cant stand an avenger. I like the eliminator though.

I am an avid fan of the TVS Apache. They are innovators in bikes and were the first to introudce the rear disc as well as ABS. I will pick a tvs 180 over the pulsar anyday. And remember that TVS keeps innovating every year.

Hi VW2010, The thought of a scooter did cross my mind. Undoubtedly, a scooter is the most comfortable vehicle to ride in traffic. Other than your hands - there is nothing required to ride a scooter. You dont have to worry about a clutch or a gear lever everytime you slow down. You wanna move - you twist your right hand. You wanna stop / slow - you just press 2 levers. As simple as that. But theres no fun factor involved in riding a scooter - unless its a Yamaha T-MAX 500.

Hero Honda Hunk - No, since I do not like the styling of this bike. And again its a 150 cc bike with limited features.

Avenger - No, since I do not want to buy a Bajaj bike.

Apache - My heart says the Apache RTR180 - but I dont want to make a decision without considering the other options.

Originally Posted by abhinav.s

Well to cut a long story short, I bought the FZ16 in May '11 and was handed a classic lemon. I did 5000 kms in 3 months and sold it off in July '11 when reliability on long rides was compromised. I did not opt for the ZMA as i felt it was not value for money priced at 92k on road Bangalore and does not even provide tubeless tires!!
I am now a happy camper with a pearl white RTR180 and as your title suggests, its putting a wide grin inside my helmet whenever i ride it in the city. The long rides will start from this weekend onwards and am looking forward to it.

@VW2010, while the gear-less scoots are a good practical option for the city, you cannot take them on occasional highway rides and the main criteria of V12 which is to enjoy the bike and put a smile on the rider's face cannot be satisfied by a gear-less scoot.

Hi Abhinav,Yes, I remember reading that you bought a RTR180 - but could not find a dedicated thread for it - so was not sure. Would love to see an ownership report on the bike.

@ vikramvicky1984 : I received your PM and will definitely call you if I do make a decision on the ZMA.

[abhinav.s]

Originally Posted by v12

Would love to see an ownership report on the bike.

Will be doing a 550kms round trip over the weekend. Will put up a report with pics once am back for sure. It will help in giving an all round perspective of the bike since it has now done close to 1000 kms in city under varying traffic conditions. This long ride will help in putting up a comprehensive report.

[VW2010]

As simple as that. But theres no fun factor involved in riding a scooter - unless its a Yamaha T-MAX 500.

Knowing you want to get your hands on a 600cc soon, i would advice wise spending on the current purchase knowing you will hardly take the current bike once the 600 is in

[Sheel]

Knowing you want to get your hands on a 600cc soon, i would advice wise spending on the current purchase knowing you will hardly take the current bike once the 600 is in

Bigger cc Motorcycles attract a lot of attention, hence you can't park it anywhere & they detest being ridden in traffic. His regular commuter would keep continuing its commuting work I believe.

@abhinav.s - I am sorry to know about the FZ. Did the ride/handling impress you?

@V12 - I believe the Karizma it is then. I myself am not a fan of BAL, but with KTM's & Ninja assembled in their plants & they coming out with 4 valve engines & a completely new suspension (all rumors at the moment) I see light at the end of the tunnel, but won't be the guinea pig.

Thanks

[prateekm]

Since you are keen on a Apache 180 ABS, I'll put down my list of positives and negatives which I faced in my Apache. I got it about 20 days back, learned to ride on it and I've done ~900 kms in 10 days of riding.

Positives:

• ABS. Since it was the only bike in the segment having ABS, I was sure I wanted this. Yes, I had a doubt a few times looking at the sexy new R15 v2, but the high backseat coupled with extension of budget, I didn't go for it.
• Best braking, dual discs (270mm at the front and 220mm at the back I am not mistaken).
• Nice console with digital speedometer, 0-60 timer, 2 trip meters, digital fuel meter, clock and other common features.
• Long range. Gave me a mileage of 40 before the 1st service (I guess I got a bit less since I am new to biking and have stalled it a couple of times when learning). It has a 16 liter tank, so on highways, that should give you 600-650 kms quite easily.
• Practical for city commuting, has good low-end torque. I checked with other bikes in the segment which my friends have, and I also found the headlight to be the brightest (not taking into account P220's projector setup).
• Exhaust. This bike has the best stock exhaust in the market. Will surely bring a smile to your face
• Great handling, a boon again in the chaotic riding in our city.
• ABS has a fatter tyre, DC electricals and anti-wheel lift feature too.

Negatives:

• The gearbox sometimes has a mind of it's own. I have faced problems a couple of times when I am shifting from 1st to 2nd and it goes into the neutral gear. Maybe it's a mistake on my end, I guess the gear shifting could be more swifter by changing to semi-synthetic/synthetic. I plan to do that after 2000 kms.
• The rear seat has no pillion comfort. There will be back pains for the pillion after 1 hour of riding. No such issues for the person riding though.
• The vibrations. A big negative on the Apache, you will feel numbness especially on your left hand if you do a continuous riding for 1 hour in the 4000-5000 rpm range. I have read that the vibes reduce after that RPM range, though I haven't checked it out personally since it's still in the running-in period.

If I have missed out anything or have given some wrong information, other members, please do correct me.

[svsantosh]

Why dont you go the GTO way - the Preworshipped Way...

I got a 12K/Kms/ODO Pulsar220 (Streetfighter look) for 58K from a final year college kid. Minor scratches but otherwise Superb condition. Spent 3K for the 1st service - changed nearly ALL minor parts...Every time I upshift @ 7K, I dont smile (just), I GRINN!

And you get to save nearly 30-40K off the sticker price... Wait for a 600class launch, shift this bike for 40-50K and move on...

Edit -
I got from this website... filtered for 220's around mumbai

http://www.bikes4sale.in/buy.php?st=...20%20DTSi&dr=n

[Porschefire]

Hi v12! First of all i must say that i completely agree with your theory "ride another bike and you won't ride a bullet" (No offence meant for existing/potential bullet owners. That is just the way i feel.).

I own a ZMR which i bought in June'11 and I must say its not been a hassle free ownership so far. The bike has its pros and cons (which if you want me to highlight,i'd be happy to do so!). But my main issue is with the A.S.S of Hero!!They show a rough attitude towards ZMR owners and are hesitant even to listen to the problems.It might be because they do not have the expertise to work on a fuel injected bike yet or it could be that the bike itself is very complex to work on(for instance,the fairing removal takes half a day!!!).

I was a Pulsar owner and the main reason i turned to Hero(then Hero Honda) was with the hope of a better service. But alas it turned out to be the same if not worse than Bajaj. My intention here is to warn you that the A.S.S of Hero might not be as good as people assume it to be!!(or maybe its a case with only me,my bike and my dealer).

Given a second chance, i'd go with Yamaha bikes anyday as they're almost niggle free and the service they provide is light years ahead of Hero!!!