[NPV]

Hmm lots of debate, makes good reading! Power of the forum is the difference in opinions and everyone is right in some way

All I would say is (and the thread is rightly titled so!) - regardless of advertising guidelines, rules, etc the motorcycle maker (Hero motors in this case) is definitely irresponsible for depicting such stunts in the advertisement.

[Octane_Power]

So, as the "EDIT" reads, is the ad really off-air?

I remember seeing it on TV a day or two back.. Even Hero MotoCorp's youtube channel contains the ad.

What does the "ad pulled off air" refer to here?

-Bhargav

[Thad E Ginathom]

I don't watch TV --- it's far too dangerous!

But I did see a similar ad yesterday on a restaurant TV, with the rider imitating the movements of football player.

[akshay4587]

The extreme Advert is not off air yet.
Just saw it yesterday at 11Pm on one of the channels on the idiot box.


Sent from my iPhone using Team-BHP

[interest]

Originally Posted by Octane_Power

So, as the "EDIT" reads, is the ad really off-air?

I remember seeing it on TV a day or two back.. Even Hero MotoCorp's Youtube channel contains the ad.

What does the "ad pulled off air" refer to here?

-Bhargav

Originally Posted by akshay4587

The extreme Advert is not off air yet.
Just saw it yesterday at 11Pm on one of the channels on the idiot box.


Sent from my iPhone using Team-BHP

From post no 41 on page 3 of this thread (reply from ASCI to the complaint that was filed against this ad) I infer that ASCI has given Hero group time till 15th July to take this ad off. The reply also states that the company has consented.

[Indraneel Bhat]

The Ad was liked by a certain section of people and not liked by a section of people. So why censor it for those that have like the ad?
I liked the ad. I even have the tune as my ringtone. And I am NEVER going to replicate those stunts on any road, open, empty or otherwise.

The ad clearly shows the warning that these stunts were done on empty roads and by professionals. I watch this ad on a 32 inch TV at a distance of 15 feet.

An Advertisement's job is to help market or create a market for a product. The ad is cool and makes the product desirable. The advertisers have done their job. In no way, does it take away our responsibility to be good motorists. That remains constant.

So if you do not like the ad, change the channel for 30 seconds. Why should anyone come in the way of MY viewing pleasure? This case is just for an ad. If any of you have tried to watch an action movie on TV nowadays will know that every punch thrown or sight of blood is censored. Language is censored. For what? So that a bunch of "concerned" citizens' personal values are not offended? What about my rights? I pay the same taxes and rates for cable TV.

Censorship will never be the answer. You will only succeed in driving things underground. That is where the true danger is.

[Thad E Ginathom]

I think you have missed the point. Liking or not liking is a purely selfish response and not what is under discussion here. In entertainment terms, I liked it!

Your viewing pleasure, my viewing pleasure, have nothing to do with this.

[noopster]

Originally Posted by Octane_Power

So, as the "EDIT" reads, is the ad really off-air?

I remember seeing it on TV a day or two back.. Even Hero MotoCorp's Youtube channel contains the ad.

Originally Posted by akshay4587

The extreme Advert is not off air yet.
Just saw it yesterday at 11Pm on one of the channels on the idiot box.

Answered here:

Originally Posted by interest

From post no 41 on page 3 of this thread (reply from ASCI to the complaint that was filed against this ad) I infer that ASCI has given Hero group time till 15th July to take this ad off. The reply also states that the company has consented.

My guess is that the company may have already paid up for media space and providing a reasonable interval to pull the ad may be a step to ensure they don't lose money. Fair enough I guess!

Have been following the discussion on this thread with some interest. I completely agree that every individual needs to be trusted to make correct decisions about his own safety and as such censorship of advertisements seems like a silly concept. The only thing that prompted me to make the complaint to ASCI (and I suppose why OP started this thread) is my own experience. Ever so often on the road I've seen people taking dangerous risks with their vehicles and in the process exposing not just themselves but others on the road as well to danger. Some months ago while driving to dinner with my family, we saw a young couple on a souped up motorcycle riding at crazy speeds on crowded roads, weaving in and out of vehicles with not a care in the world. The young woman at the back was laughing, her head sans protection, hair flying in the wind, seemingly on top of the world. I actually slowed down considerably and allowed them to get ahead of us, not to encourage this behaviour but because I was convinced I did not want to be around if and when an accident took place.

Am not one to get my wisdom from pop culture but remember what Spiderman's uncle said, "With great power comes great responsibility" Sometimes we assume that responsibility on behalf of someone who may not yet be mature enough to do it on their own. They may decry the loss of their freedom but the alternative is far worse to contemplate.

[malq]

Looks like a large number of people may have complained about this ad.

""

From: contact@ascionline.org
to: veereshmalik@gmail.com
cc: contact@ascionline.org
date: 7 July 2014 12:22
subject: ASCI Complaint Acknowledgement

Dear Mr.Malik,

Re: Your complaint C.6655(a) against the advertisement of Hero Xtreme
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A similar complaint regarding the ad for Hero Xtreme (C.6655) was considered by the Consumer Complaints Council (CCC).

As per their decision, the complaint has been UPHELD as the advertisement contravened Chapter III.3
of the ASCI Code (“Ads shall not, without justifiable reason, show or refer to dangerous practice or
manifest a disregard for safety or encourage negligence.”). The CCC viewed the TVC and concluded that
the TVC shows “an everyday activity being performed on the bike in an irresponsible manner”.

We have advised the advertiser to withdraw or modify the ad before July 15, 2014 and have received their assurance of compliance.

Thank you for having referred this complaint to us.

Assuring you of our services in the pursuit of Self-Regulation in Advertising Content.

Yours faithfully,
B.Gomes
Executive Assistant
Advertising Standards Council of India

++

Every which way, this is about the rules, right?

[Kumar R]

I agree with the OP and it's very responsible on part of noopster to write to the ASCI. While a number of people have commented on this thread that they are against censorship, consider it very unlikely that anyone they know would try to imitate the ad in real life, etc. I believe from my experience that in a country like India where millions watch TV (especially on prime time football nights), showcasing an ad like this does create peer pressure among all sorts of people to try and imitate the ad whether consciously or unconsciously. The actions depicted in the ad are so dangerous that even attempting a little (such as tying boots on pillion while facing the other way) can have deadly consequences. To the extent "censorship" will result in a few less impressionable folks thinking about trying it, I'm all for taking the ad off air.

This is not the only disturbing ad about motorbikes. When the world cup started I distinctly remember another bike ad showing a biker expertly stopping his bike as a female driver reverses a car without seeing him approach (the look on the lady's face suggests she erred). I believe the ad was intended to showcase the efficient brakes of the bike. Instead the message it seems to also convey is that female drivers are bad drivers, especially in reversing which is to my mind unacceptable in a country where so many drivers are already misogynistic. Maybe someone can remember which ad this was (I never saw it again -- maybe someone complained to the ASCI)

Comparing the ad with other seemingly dangerous stunts and exaggerated ads is not wise for several reasons. Firstly many stunts shown in ads/films are in such unrealistic settings that we unconsciously would filter them out of 'things to attempt' -- such as white water rafting or going up a building's side in a car a la The Matrix. It is stunts that are set in 'everyday' settings like busy streets, cities, home etc that can influence people the most. Secondly unlike a movie, this is an ad that is aired about 10 times in a standard football match in a month with 64 matches (plus untold dozens of hours on repeats / highlights). An impressionable person might end up watching it 40-50 times during that time month easily.

Originally Posted by Indraneel Bhat

The Ad was liked by a certain section of people and not liked by a section of people. So why censor it for those that have like the ad?
I liked the ad. I even have the tune as my ringtone. And I am NEVER going to replicate those stunts on any road, open, empty or otherwise.

You might be a responsible individual but unfortunately there are (as our driving experiences show) thousands and thousands of folks who are not. It is not possible for you (or anyone else) to speak for them and until it is known that nobody would attempt such stunts in real life, there remains the danger of imitation.

Originally Posted by Indraneel Bhat

The ad clearly shows the warning that these stunts were done on empty roads and by professionals.

That's a narrow fine-print-like technicality which I wish you would not emphasise. The warning is barely just seen and last a few microseconds before changing each time the camera view switches. In my locality they have put up a giant screen on which the matches are being aired and at night about 200-400 people, including a lot of poor youths, watchmen, taxi drivers, domestic helps etc. congregate to watch. Many of these people are not even literate. I see them looking at these ads and their faces profess an admiration for the stunt driver. How effective is a warning then.

In any event it is human nature to attempt to emulate risky behavior more easily than be dissuaded by warnings. That's why smoking, drug addiction, software piracy, speeding continue to be rampant. Surely you will agree that a young IT professional downloading an illegal movie on the internet is well aware of his actions. If warnings cannot deter such people how will they deter those who are less mature / less educated.

Originally Posted by Indraneel Bhat

An Advertisement's job is to help market or create a market for a product. The ad is cool and makes the product desirable. The advertisers have done their job. In no way, does it take away our responsibility to be good motorists. That remains constant.

I agree with you but not at the cost of promoting unhealthy risk-taking behaviour which might be wholly unintended. There is a fine line between great marketing and ads that men sub-consciously encourage people to aspire to an unrealistic and potentially harmful behaviour.

Originally Posted by Indraneel Bhat

So if you do not like the ad, change the channel for 30 seconds. Why should anyone come in the way of MY viewing pleasure? This case is just for an ad. If any of you have tried to watch an action movie on TV nowadays will know that every punch thrown or sight of blood is censored. Language is censored. For what? So that a bunch of "concerned" citizens' personal values are not offended? What about my rights? I pay the same taxes and rates for cable TV.

This is similar to the arguments opponents of gun-control laws cite frequently. The tricky part is that the people who are likely to take foolish decisions (whether guns or bikes) are the ones least likely to be responsible enough to not imitate that in real life. We start with the assumption that some people will be influenced to undertake rash behaviour some of the time by watching some ads/movies -- and to the extent that the ads / film scenes / strong language can be taken off air it is a good idea. In jurisprudence this will, of course, be unpalatable to a number of people but the decision is taken because it is believed that your inconvenience / discomfort is secondary to the potential danger of letting the practice continue. Bit like a college student complaining that a hostel curfew is infringing on his or her rights to spend a night out responsibly.

In reflection I am surprised at how sublimely ads can influence us. The other day I was doing some unnecessary 'fluid' weaving around slow moving vehicles in traffic and realised that unconsciously I was attempting to emulate (in a small way) those test-drive ads / road handling videos where test drivers weave their cars expertly around those orange road cones

[Indraneel Bhat]

Originally Posted by Kumar R

In reflection I am surprised at how sublimely ads can influence us. The other day I was doing some unnecessary 'fluid' weaving around slow moving vehicles in traffic and realised that unconsciously I was attempting to emulate (in a small way) those test-drive ads / road handling videos where test drivers weave their cars expertly around those orange road cones

Well, articles on this forum and ads on the web show guys loading up their bikes with equipment and supplies and biking through VERY cold weather and going over terrain that even 4 wheel drive vehicles find difficult to go over (read Khardungla, Leh and the lot....). We celebrate these members and their achievement. Any biker worth his Alpinestars wants to get Leh'd at least once in his lifetime
But ask a non-biker (specifically parents and spouse) and they'll call that dangerous and condemn threads about such expeditions something that encourages people to emulate dangerous behaviour. How would any of us feel if someone writes to the highway authorities asking the Government not to allow biking expeditions to Khardungla or Leh..... since it is dangerous..... And the Government actually goes ahead with it!!! (God forbid this ever happening!!!!)
My point was simple.... Should we allow policing of the media and press in order to compliment what the general public holds acceptable? Or should we be educating those that we can, those that are close to us on right behaviour? Is the banning of an ad going to stop reckless driving? I would have definitely applauded if the complaint was not for stopping the broadcast of the ad, but having that warning (that people say is illegible) be a 3-5 second readout at the start of the advertisement, in Hindi and English on alternate broadcasts. I do believe that policing should be done with balance and rationality, not through fear.
At the end let me state, that I am not a stunt rider, nor am I into speeding. I am neither in the advertising industry nor the press. Just someone who loves motorcycles and motorcycling and is tired of someone else's opinion / fears decide what I have access to and what I don't have access to.

[Kumar R]

Originally Posted by Indraneel Bhat

Well, articles on this forum and ads on the web show guys ... biking through VERY cold weather and going over terrain that even 4 wheel drive vehicles find difficult to go over ...Any biker worth his Alpinestars wants to get Leh'd at least once in his lifetime

How would any of us feel if someone writes to the highway authorities asking the Government not to allow biking expeditions to Khardungla or Leh..... since it is dangerous..... And the Government actually goes ahead with it!!! (God forbid this ever happening!!!!)

My point was simple.... Should we allow policing of the media and press in order to compliment what the general public holds acceptable? Or should we be educating those that we can, those that are close to us on right behaviour? Is the banning of an ad going to stop reckless driving? I would have definitely applauded if the complaint was not for stopping the broadcast of the ad, but having that warning ...be a 3-5 second readout at the start of the advertisement.

I am ...Just someone who loves motorcycles and motorcycling and is tired of someone else's opinion / fears decide what I have access to and what I don't have access to.

Thanks Indraneel, for your views. In reply to your Ladakh-Leh example, I can only say that going for a biking adventure in difficult terrain is something that affects the biker himself and is also something that is hard to emulate unless you have a serious love for travel. An impressionable person is unlikely to be able to go to Leh with his motorbike simply by watching an ad that shows this (like the recent bike ad in some glaciers of Antarctica).

Re educating people, I'm all for it but sadly that's not happening; instead uneducated people are viewing ads that give the perception that its easy or cool to do a bike stunt in traffic. So until we can guarantee universal education, an ad can reach out to a lot of people and influence them.

If I understood the OP correctly, his (and my) view is that some ads depict risky behaviour that certain classes of people (such as adolescent newbie drivers in late teens/early 20s with girlfriends or peer groups to impress) might be tempted to imitate with lethal consequences to not only them
but those around them as well (such as wanting to wear trousers while driving a bike). There are all kinds of reasons why someone would want to do this but I can empathise with them, having once been very tempted to
drive a bike without hands when I was 16 after watching some ads on TV (and almost colliding with a car in the process). That's pretty much the No.1 reason why there are limited censorship practices (forced or voluntary) on certain stuff depicted onscreen and why even liberal western countries restrict movies showing a lot of gore and violence to late night slots and marking them as 15+, etc. In law this is called a reasonable restriction on freedom of free speech, movement, etc. It is not so much as someone telling you what to see / not to see but a subjective decision on curtailing exhibition of stuff that kids and adults may try to imitate without proper training / knowledge. We exercise this kind of subjective opinion all the time. Similar to the reason why you would not want to play a movie with plenty of cuss words or zombie-hacking etc. when your 6 or 7 year kid is around (even if there's a 1 minute warning screen). You dont want that kid to think throwing an axe or a knife is cool. The same for ads - you don't want that 18 year old next door to think its cool to try some bike stunts in the city, and certainly not when you are walking around! It' not just about bike ads. If tomorrow there was an ad that showed an autodriver doing some killer stunts with his auto rickshaw in peak hour traffic and getting away with no ill effects, I would still be worried because I fear that the next auto behind me on the road might decide its time to do an encore.

[Altocumulus]

I don't really think that censorship ads will stop people doing stunts and being irresponsible. Those who have to do will just do it. They never cared about these ads. Its not that they don't know its dangerous, its just that they think nothing can go wrong with them. That you cannot change by censoring ads nor will you provoke them by showing it.

I guess we should now complain against the 'We are the Swift ' ad where they are drifting on the road, Entertainment ke liye kuch bhi karega show, or the Dhoom series, etc. For the latter 2 I am referring to trailers, not the entire show or movie.

[aravind.anand]

I personally did not like the idea of the Hero Xtreme ad, but good or not, people have taken notice of this bike.

Figure this out - the Hero Honda Xtreme, Hulk had been on sale for more that half a decade now, but they never garnered so many eye balls that this ad has managed to.
So, even if this ad is being taken down, the Hero marketing team made the mark they intended to do.

Also, I wonder why the Pulsar stunt ads, Apache ads, Mountain dew ad ( Gypsy going down a valley ) Thumbs up ads ( Jumping off buildings ) were never this controversial!

Originally Posted by aravind.anand

I personally did not like the idea of the Hero Xtreme ad, but good or not, people have taken notice of this bike.

Also, I wonder why the Pulsar stunt ads, Apache ads, Mountain dew ad ( Gypsy going down a valley ) Thumbs up ads ( Jumping off buildings ) were never this controversial!

You are correct to a greater extent, but the law sees it differently.

Thumbs Up used to make extreme ads earlier, but now they stopped it. Now they are doing Indian cinema kind of ads, which should be acceptable as long as our movies aren't banned. Like, Man jumping off a plane with a parachute for thumbs up, etc.

I agree with the Pulsar ads, but they have been shooted on runways, i think. Also, not in india (sometimes). They do not show roads, traffic, signals, etc. They just show the bike stunts. But even it should be avoided. However Their initial pulsar Ads were Great.

The Mountain Dew ads cannot be banned as they show in forests or deserts i think. As per law, any advertisements promoting rash driving/riding (or) encouraging any rules violations should not be allowed.