[supremeBaleno]

We have a 2010 Scooty Pep+ that has done around 8K kms or so IIRC. Recently we are seeing a strange issue with the bike, where it occasionally does not start. The thing is this happens only rarely and is completely unpredictable. Also has happened with both hot and cold engines.

Eg.Couple weeks back, I had to go to town for some errand. The bike started at first kick itself (I don't usually use the electric-starter, never on a cold-start), rode 4kms, finished the chore in about 10mins. And when I try to start again, engine does not come to life inspite of repeated tries. I give up, get myself a lemon-soda to get over the exertion and then try again. Now it starts without any issue.

Recently my wife faced similar issues with the bike. Her typical usage is a 1-km ride to the bus-stop in the morning, where she leaves it parked till evening when she returns from work. Mostly all is well, but some mornings, it just refuses to start. And sometimes, no issues in the morning, but acts up in the evening.

And as if this was not enough, sometimes she found that while the bike starts, if she tries to give throttle input, it seems to die down (or feels like it will die down) and then the only option is to ride really slowly till home.

What could be the problem here & what to look for ?
- Spark-plug issue ?
- Any impurities in fuel ?
- Anything to do with the throttle cable ?

[aargee]

What is the interval at which you're refueling?

Next time the scooter refuses to start, please try the below & let me know the outcome...
1. Open the seat
2. Open the fuel cover lid & take out in hand
3. Wait for 2 seconds & then close it
4. Close the seat & give a start

[supremeBaleno]

Thanks, aargee !!!

Refueling interval till a month ago was like once in 2-3 weeks, when my Dad was using it.
We bought a Ray-Z for him recently post which wifey has started using the Pep+ & given her meagre 2-3kms daily running, a full-tank would easily go a month or more.

Next time we have this problem, will try what you suggested and let you know. Is this about vaccum-lock which leads to fuel not going to the engine ?

[amit_purohit20]

Check:
1) Sparkplug
2) Sparkplug Cap for cracks leading to short circuit
3) Open the Fuel Cap and see if it works.
4) Airfilter and any other related hoses.
5) Ensure you always have sufficient quantity of fuel, not just the minimum required.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Next time we have this problem, will try what you suggested and let you know. Is this about vaccum-lock which leads to fuel not going to the engine ?

Exactly; just want to eliminate most common things; since you're very well aware of cleaning plugs, carbs, old fuel, didn't want to touchbase as I'm sure you would've eliminated them by yourself before even asking here.

Just to be sure, use fresh fuel of just 1 liter in fully emptied tank, since your running is less, and want to eliminate the possibility of petrol turning thicker

[VW2010]

The symptoms are typical spark plug but could also be battery wires or power to the spark plug could be interrupted for various reasons including the battery terminals having the corrosion which is very normal in many bikes.

These bikes are so easy to DIY that i would recommend a monthly cleaning of basic parts. Some are tough to reach in these bikes but you may love it hehe.

As already check battery, spark plug, carb. Engine dying down while accelerating could also mean bad supply of fuel or intermittent supply which could mean cleaning up the Carb. Or exact opposite of you are riding by mistake with the choke on. Check them as well.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by VW2010

The symptoms are typical spark plug but could also be battery wires or power to the spark plug could be interrupted for various reasons including the battery terminals having the corrosion which is very normal in many bikes.

Do the battery-wires come into play here since the kick-start is what is used ? Anyway I had cleaned up the terminals few weeks ago when I removed the battery to have it charged (4-year old and on its last legs now). Battery-start works 75% of the time normally, but when the issue with starting happens, it also does not help.

Originally Posted by VW2010

These bikes are so easy to DIY that i would recommend a monthly cleaning of basic parts. Some are tough to reach in these bikes but you may love it hehe.

I like DIY, but lack time. Plus as you said, it is tough to reach in with these scooterettes. Was tougher with our ScootyES, where even removing the battery was a pain and for other stuff you needed to loosen umpteen screws that keep the side panels fixed. Atleast the Pep+ seems more accessible. Lift up the seat, remove the petrol-tank cap, lift up the storage compartment and most of the stuff (including battery) is accessible.

Originally Posted by VW2010

Engine dying down while accelerating could also mean bad supply of fuel or intermittent supply which could mean cleaning up the Carb. Or exact opposite of you are riding by mistake with the choke on.

Though I have seen my Dad clean the carb on our old Bajaj150 loooong ago, I myself have never done it. Basically never had the need to do it with my CD100. Regarding riding with the choke on, the Pep+ does not have a choke AFAIK (our Scooty ES has one).

Will anyway try to look at the spark-plug, air-filter, hoses etc during the long weekend coming up.

[hellmet]

Battery-start works 75% of the time normally, but when the issue with starting happens, it also does not help.

Do you mean that when this issue happens, the push-start also doesn't work? Does the engine not crank at all, or does it crank and the engine won't start?

Btw, we own a Scooty Pep+ too, and when its battery was dead, the kick start would also struggle to crank the engine to life. The explanation to this from the battery guy was that even the kick is partially powered by the battery on scooters that come with push-button-start..

I found this explanation ridiculous at the time, but the kick start started working once the battery was replaced.

And then recently I looked at Suzuki Access's manual and there its clearly mentioned that there's a connection between the kick start and battery.

So, get your battery checked and if found to be nearly dead, replace it.

EDIT: And btw, given your super low running its possible the battery has no chance to be charged at all, and hence might be running low and giving you difficulty in cranking the engine. Coupled with the fact that it's old...

[aargee]

Originally Posted by hellmet

And then recently I looked at Suzuki Access's manual and there its clearly mentioned that there's a connection between the kick start and battery.

Wonderful info
But may I ask...Why? Why such a setup?

BTW, I've Honda Activa for nearly 10 years now, I've had full battery charge to dead battery & not once there were any issues seen with starting trouble because of dead battery.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by hellmet

Do you mean that when this issue happens, the push-start also doesn't work? Does the engine not crank at all, or does it crank and the engine won't start?

Well, given that the battery performance is erratic, tough to exactly pin-point if it is the issue or battery lacking juice. But yes, electric-start also does not work when issue happens.

Originally Posted by hellmet

And then recently I looked at Suzuki Access's manual and there its clearly mentioned that there's a connection between the kick start and battery. So, get your battery checked and if found to be nearly dead, replace it.

Hmm, this is interesting info & something most of us here would not have known. Thanks for pointing this out. Will try this too.

[ArizonaJim]

The magneto used on many scooters and motorcycles often produces only enough power to run the electrical equipment like lights, horn, ignition coil or engine control unit (ECU) at idle speeds. When the engine is below idle speed as when it is being kick started the magneto's output is often not enough to power all of these items so the ignition coil (and ECU if present) may not receive enough power to operate. At times like this the ECU and ignition coil relies on the power from the battery.

The degree that various scooters/motorcycles rely on the battery power at this time varies with the brand and engine design.

The electrical output of the magneto does increase at riding speeds and it is at speeds like this that there is enough power to actually recharge the battery.

Speaking of recharging the battery, never use a charger that puts out more than 2 amps.
People who are not aware of this often attach battery chargers that are made for automotive batteries which can tolerate much higher charging rates without damage.
When this is done to the small batteries in a scooter or motorcycle it usually ends up severely damaging or even destroying the battery.

[abirnale]

We too have a Scooty Pep+ from 2010 at home. My wifey uses it and for its entire life it has only 4K Kms on odo. Last two years it has been hardly used but I ensure every six months I bring it to TVS service station and spend Rs. 600 for all the things including some crap they do. Bike behaves well for next month or so - I only take it out on some days for 500mtrs ride from home to school bus stop when in no mood to walk.

And then sometimes in the morning it refuses to start (I never use ES on it). So what I do is, tilt it on its left side (towards me) for 60-90 seconds and kick start it. In 4th or 5th kick it generally starts. But if its not, I again tilt it on left side for two more minutes and kick start. It then starts. Just couple of times it has taken me 3-4 tilt-kick cycles lasting for 8-10 minutes but mostly it starts in no more than first tilt-kick attempt.

The story is different for my wifey though. When she starts the scooty after long time - say 2-3 weeks, it just doesn't start for her. And I have to rescue. Once she was angry on me and wanted to go alone for weekly grocery to nearby store. She tried starting with Kick/ ES for almost 20 minutes and it did not start You can imagine what hell broke loose on me! Later in the same evening, I did my tilt-kick start trick - it starts in just first attempt! I thought, its just machine and men thing that my wife wont get it... *rofl*

Another peculiar problem I find is - even when it starts, if try to accelerate it immediately, it dies. But if you let it idle for 30 seconds, its perfect!

This may sound crazy about how I do the tilt and kick, but that seems to be working for me. Yeah, I grew up watching bajaj chetak tilt-kick-start :lol

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by aargee

What is the interval at which you're refueling?

Next time the scooter refuses to start, please try the below & let me know the outcome...
1. Open the seat
2. Open the fuel cover lid & take out in hand
3. Wait for 2 seconds & then close it
4. Close the seat & give a start

I have faced the same problem on my 2004 Pep and have seen success with the above procedure.

Eliminated the issue totally by having the carb cleaned in my presence and sealing off a leak on the carb bottom cover gasket

[Thar4x4]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

We have a 2010 Scooty Pep+ that has done around 8K kms or so IIRC. ..

I have same model manufactured in 2007 and face same issue all the time when it is standing in parking for more than week or so. Battery is total dead i do not spend money on it as we use this scooty only on weekend. One trick work for me is twist the throttle full and kick 2/3 times and it comes to life. The choke is inbuilt for this vehicle as per my mechanic and when we twist throttle fully the chock gets activated.

Some time it still take more than 5 kicks so i will now try fuel tank cap thing.

Thanks for opening this topic here, looks simple but important because this is the only thing put me down while using this scooty.

[amit_purohit20]

Originally Posted by hellmet

The explanation to this from the battery guy was that even the kick is partially powered by the battery on scooters that come with push-button-start..

Kick cannot be powered by battery. This is ridiculous. Either the starter motor gets current from the battery or not. If it gets current it rotates and tries to rotate the engine thus starting it. All this happens only when you press the starter button.

But when you kick we do not use the starter button thus no current flows through the starter motor and it doesnot rotate.

When you kick start, the force is not only used to rotate the engine but also the starter motor rotates. This causes that peculiar bell sound or different sound as compared to vehicles which do not have kick-start facility.

If the battery is not there or dead or half-dead it does not affect your kick start process in anyway. Its the same like you have a good battery but you do not press the starter button, so it doesnot assist your kick or assist in any way starting the engine.

I found this explanation ridiculous at the time, but the kick start started working once the battery was replaced.

The reason for this is not related to kick.

Some vehicles are designed such that (when engine is not rotating) they need a battery current to assist or to completely create a strong enough spark sufficient to start a cold vehicle. If I am not wrong Old Bullets were of this nature.

For a vehicle whose battery is discharged completely and the design is such that you need the battery current to create a strong spark, one would require the battery to be in operating condition.

And then recently I looked at Suzuki Access's manual and there its clearly mentioned that there's a connection between the kick start and battery.

Could you elaborate more on this what is mentioned in the manual or scan a pic of it and paste it here.

Thanks