[timuseravan]

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

Next up from RE in the Himalayan range will be a Himalayan Ladakh edition with prayer flags as a company fitted accessory for 2.25lacs OTR! 28k over the standard version for what - a set of panniers and paint job?

I dont understand why RE is not offering ABS as option at 10-15k extra instead of this.
With ABS, I might seriously consider the Himalayan despite the weaker engine.

[Nilesh5417]

Originally Posted by timuseravan

I dont understand why RE is not offering ABS as option at 10-15k extra instead of this.
With ABS, I might seriously consider the Himalayan despite the weaker engine.

I read somewhere that they are already producing the Himalayan with ABS for European markets where ABS is mandatory. So we should expect the ABS version too but when is the question. Maybe they will show case it during Auto Expo. Maybe they won't since the Himalayan as it is isn't really flying off the stores so RE might focus right now on the Interceptor twins which will be launched in April'18 if i remember correctly.

But if you like the Himalayan, can live with 24bhp and no 6th gear, i suggest you get it. RE claims to have fixed all the shortcomings in the FI version that they have now launched and Overdrive has just put up a short first ride review of the same.

[the_trooper]

Originally Posted by wangdu

Here are a few pics I took today at a dealer.

Quick thoughts- Welding marks still prominent, panniers' quality seems good (lockable) and I think it will be tough task to remove & put them back on as it requires unbolting few, rear indicators tucked behind panniers is risky as rear vehicle just won't be able to see flashing indicators.

cheers.

From what I am given to understand, the panniers are quick release and the indicators on the motorcycle in the pictures seem to be mounted in the incorrect location after the panniers have been fitted.

[wangdu]

Originally Posted by timuseravan

I dont understand why RE is not offering ABS as option at 10-15k extra instead of this.
With ABS, I might seriously consider the Himalayan despite the weaker engine.

IMO it has to be a switchable ABS for off road oriented which would further add to cost, not sure if it's just 10k extra. Imagine ABS is always ON (not switchable) and there's a cliff end in sight

I suggest a long test ride. Recently I'd taken test ride of the carb version @ ~5000kms on odo. The bike perhaps being a test machine didn't sound refined at all. But, it's a very usable bike in the city. lightweight (i feel so), agile, comfortable ergos and for minor off road experiences. The lack of 10 odd horses clearly shows after 100 kmph, so the highways will seem longer but then this is no tarmac tourer alone.

I'm also seriously considering it and have registered on the website. My biggest worry is build quality, cumbersome pannier setup and lack of 10 odd horses as I said.

My next alternative is Rs 1million leap away, landing on the time tested Tiger (that too without spokes) or I've to add more for spokes. So, I think.

[timuseravan]

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

But if you like the Himalayan, can live with 24bhp and no 6th gear, i suggest you get it. RE claims to have fixed all the shortcomings in the FI version that they have now launched and Overdrive has just put up a short first ride review of the same.

It will be hard after the Duke but I can live with the lower power. However I absolutely refuse to compromise on ABS. Used to have C500 previously and got into an accident when the rear wheel locked at speed of 50 or so. Thank god, I was not badly injured but I don't want to take that risk again.

Originally Posted by wangdu

IMO it has to be a switchable ABS for off road oriented which would further add to cost, not sure if it's just 10k extra. Imagine ABS is always ON (not switchable) and there's a cliff end in sight

I am ok with non-switchable as well. I don't forsee going off-road at all

[Nilesh5417]

Originally Posted by timuseravan

I am ok with non-switchable as well. I don't forsee going off-road at all

Then why only Himalayan? There is dominar to consider as well. Or in fact any bike with a few mods since you already lived with a duke. To me, the duke is quite difficult to tour on since it completely has a street DNA!

[Sting]

Originally Posted by TorqueyTechie

To repeat what I had mentioned in some other thread, RE is to motorcycles what Maruti is to cars. One can blame/make fun of them how much ever one would like to but in the end they laugh all the way to the bank!

I could have agreed to Maruti Suzuki being called Royal Enfield:

1. If the most significant achievement of Maruti in the last 3 decades would have been introducing EFI and a front disc brake in their same old M800.
2. If Maruti Suzuki was still selling the M800 and it looked exactly like the original that was launched in the 1980s with only minor updates to its engine.
3. If the only other model after 1980s introduced by Maruti was an Alto and if the Alto then rusted, broke down and turned out to be rubbish.
4. If every time Maruti launched a new colour scheme for the M800 it would try to create the biggest news in the Indian automotive world
5. If none of the Maruti cars had ABS, EBD, Airbags, Automatic transmission
6. If Maruti had not planned, designed and launched a product ground up in India (read: Brezza)
7. If Maruti did not continuously launch new products in the market (read: SX4, Baleno, Brezza, Eritga and the list could go on)
8. If Maruti customers continuously complained of cars breaking down

..I could go on with the list.


In my view, MSIL is a fundamentally different company from RE. Does it manufacture the best quality products in the market or does it introduce industry leading technological advancements to the Indian car market? The answer is a resounding no. It makes products to a price point that are probably one of the best value for money in the market. That’s its approach and it executes it really well.

Maruti doesn’t pretend to be a different company – it offers low cost, value for money products to a hyper value conscious Indian buyer. It has taken a reasonably valued car to a lower middle class buyers doorstep in the last few decades. It has been part of the story not just for shareholders but also to families where 5 members would travel atop a 2 seater Bajaj Chetak come rain, hail or storm.

RE? Well, it has created a brotherhood and closer home on this subject – it has added a new paint scheme.

Cheers,
Sting

[SJM1214]

Royal Enfield Himalayan Sleet Goes On Sale At Dealerships; Priced At ₹ 1.71 Lakh.

Launched exclusively online in January this year, the Royal Enfield Himalayan Sleet Edition is now available for purchase at dealerships priced at ₹ 1.71 lakh (ex-showroom). The special edition version was originally launched with an Explorer Kit as part of the package and was priced at ₹ 2.12 lakh (ex-showroom). The Sleet edition now comes as a third paint option on the adventure motorcycle and is priced at a premium of ₹ 3600 over the standard black and white colours. The Himalayan Sleet edition paint scheme takes inspiration from the snowcapped peak mountains of - you guessed it - Himalayas.

The Royal Enfield Himalayan Sleet is just a cosmetic upgrade for now and brings no changes to the mechanicals of the motorcycle. Power comes from the same 411 cc single-cylinder engine that received fuel-injection last year. The motor is tuned to produce 24 bhp at 6500 rpm and 32 Nm of peak torque at 4500 rpm, while paired to a 5-speed gearbox.

Suspension duties are handled by the long-travel telescopic forks up front and a long-travel monoshock setup at the rear, the latter being a first for any bike from RE. The ADV rides on a 21-inch spoke wheel at the front and an 18-inch wheel at the rear, both of which get dual purpose tyres.

The Royal Enfield Himalayan Sleet edition was originally sold online to only 500 customers, albeit with the Explorer Kit. This kit is now available as optional and includes 26 litre water resistant aluminium panniers, pannier mounting rails, powder-coated engine guard, off-road style aluminium handlebar with cross-brace, leg guard and bar-end weights. The kit can be purchased separately for an additional price of ₹ 31,900 (inclusive of fitting charges) at dealerships.

News Source : https://auto.ndtv.com/news/royal-enf...1-lakh-1840529

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Sting

RE? Well, it has created a brotherhood and closer home on this subject – it has added a new paint scheme.

I have been curiously observing the number of Himalayans here in / around Manali this season. They seem to be really catching on, and I suspect the version II's EFI is making it a more consistent performer at varying altitudes vs. the carb version (though short of an absolutely reliable EFI system, I've always preferred carbs for the remote places).

HOWEVER, having just come back from Spiti Valley yesterday and seen dozens of these in action, I can say that I'm extremely dismayed to find that RE has done nothing, in all their revising, to deal with the completely useless state of tuning of the rear suspension.

I could have documented it in dozens of photos - Entire groups of Himalayan riders being forced to ride standing on the pegs - apparently for hours on end, even on the better sections of that "road". While Bullet/CL 500 riders on exactly the same stretches were able to comfortably stay seated in their saddles.

I don't care which foreign "expert" was brought in to do the suspension setups, it simply doesn't work on rough roads; a person should NOT have to stand on the footpegs of any true adventure tourer / dual-sport except in the most horrible spots - I certainly haven't had to on my lowly Impulse or the DR350, nor did I on my modded KB125RTZ, on which I was able to do the Kaza-Manali run in a very speedy 5+ hours.

Being that I mentioned this issue two years ago in the Himalayan threads (after riding along with three of these to Ladakh in July '16), it is a travesty that RE has chosen to do nothing to improve it. All that alleged suspension travel, and almost none of it actually functional - pathetic that a Bullet should better the H out on the rough tracks it was purportedly designed for. Excepting the cases of obese riders, the rear-ends of these bikes bounce around like anything; what use is a 21" front wheel when your bum is bouncing six inches off the seat? The progressive rear spring is extremely lightly sprung for the first few inches of travel, so squats down as soon as the bike is sat upon, then hits a hard "wall" and lives there, the suspension hardly working. Pathetic.

And now we have a new paint scheme instead...

I really liked these bikes at a conceptual level; they've got the looks and I believe they have huge potential. But this is downright irresponsible on RE's part. Maybe it was, after all, just hype and fanfare, a true "image bike" primarily made for posers, just like the most other RE's (I say this as a man who owns one).

-Eric

[Trojan]

Originally Posted by ringoism

I could have documented it in dozens of photos - Entire groups of Himalayan riders being forced to ride standing on the pegs - apparently for hours on end, even on the better sections of that "road". While Bullet/CL 500 riders on exactly the same stretches were able to comfortably stay seated in their saddles.

I don't care which foreign "expert" was brought in to do the suspension setups, it simply doesn't work on rough roads; a person should NOT have to stand on the footpegs of any true adventure tourer / dual-sport except in the most horrible spots - I certainly haven't had to on my lowly Impulse or the DR350, nor did I on my modded KB125RTZ, on which I was able to do the Kaza-Manali run in a very speedy 5+ hours.

Dear Eric,

Your posts are highly insightful and I thoroughly enjoy reading them.

I am a Himalayan owner and have a similar dilemma - what is the need to stand up and ride?
I think and believe this is more to do with watching countless videos showing blokes riding standing-up and this has kind of metamorphosed into making everyone believe that this is the right way and the only way to ride off-road or rough patches.
I in fact prefer riding while sitting and I have found much to my amusement that it is possible to clear those rough parts equally well. The only time I do stand up is when I feel like giving my tired derriere a break and it feels great.
That being said, the suspension is actually wonderful and one would not really batter themselves if they were to travel while seated. But while standing up one tends to ride faster and go through the rough patch faster as well.
But yes, there is definitely a set of riders who still prefer to ride while being seated, of course barring those odd spots where standing up may be necessary.

Cheers,
Trojan

[ArizonaJim]

Originally Posted by ringoism

...

I could have documented it in dozens of photos - Entire groups of Himalayan riders being forced to ride standing on the pegs - apparently for hours on end, even on the better sections of that "road". While Bullet/CL 500 riders on exactly the same stretches were able to comfortably stay seated in their saddles.
...

-Eric

I note you seem to basing all of your criticism of the suspension based on observations only.

Have you actually ridden a Himalayan over the same or similar rough sections?
If you have, how many Km did you ride and what was the condition of the terrain?

Who's to say why other riders chose to ride their H's standing up? IMO, it is almost impossible to know their reasons without asking them first hand.
Perhaps they were riding that way because they think it is fun?

With the exception of your comments, everything I have read that was written by people who have personally ridden the H over very rough areas have praised the handling and the Himalayan's ability to dampen out or totally remove any road shock from the terrain.

[Suresh Stephen]

last year I went for a drive from Pathankot to Pangi valley and then to Manali on a Himalayan. Very Bad and Demanding roads with plenty of large water crossing. The Himalayan was an extremely comfortable bike and didn't give any trouble. I drive a Royal enfield bullet otherwise. There is no comparison between the bikes especially in the suspension front. If somebody is used to standing and driving, It will naturally give more stabilty to the bike since the CG shifts downwards when the driver is standing

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Suresh Stephen

last year I went for a drive from Pathankot to Pangi valley and then to Manali on a Himalayan... an extremely comfortable bike... I drive a Royal enfield bullet otherwise. There is no comparison between the bikes especially in the suspension front. If somebody is used to standing and driving, It will naturally give more stabilty to the bike since the CG shifts downwards when the driver is standing

Originally Posted by Trojan

I am a Himalayan owner and have a similar dilemma - what is the need to stand up and ride? I think and believe this is more to do with watching countless videos showing blokes riding standing-up and this has kind of metamorphosed into making everyone believe that this is the right way and the only way to ride off-road or rough patches.

Originally Posted by ArizonaJim

I note you seem to basing all of your criticism of the suspension based on observations only.

With the exception of your comments, everything I have read that was written by people who have personally ridden the H over very rough areas have praised the handling and the Himalayan's ability to dampen out or totally remove any road shock from the terrain.

Well, that last line is really astonishing: “...totally remove any road shock from the terrain”(???!!!). Wow, a truly miraculous bike then! Jim, I invite you to the Himalayas. Chill out awhile, try one out, then come back and tell me – after ten minutes or ten hours - what your spine tells you; I’m quite sure that the word “totally” will take on a totally new meaning! Suresh, the thing is they were standing on long, flat (albeit bumpy) plains where “stability” wasn’t an issue at all. True that I didn’t ask them why, true that some may just think it’s the cool “MX” way to ride, true that I jumped to a conclusion on the basis of my own experience in the H’s saddle. My apologies.

I confess to writing in more haste and less thought than I usually try to do - something was telling me I’d ruffle some feathers, so thanks guys, valid observations/experiences, however, two points: First the bases for assessment/comparison, and then probable reasons the Himalayan is the way it is:


1) Respectfully, for the Himalayan riders who've actually been to Ladakh/Spiti/wherever it's rough and thought they were great: They may be better than many other bikes, better than Pulsars / Dukes / Dominars / CT100’s and whatever else people take out there (incl. R15’s and RC200’s)- but put it up against any international-market dual-sport or true adv. tourer (DR, KLR, XL/XR, GS, Funduro, XT, NX, etc, etc) it is truly, honestly worlds behind - especially in the "behind". I mean, with any of the above you can pretty much ride up and down curbs, and over large speedbreakers and through potholes (I've done it so many times), and literally hardly even feel it - certainly nothing jarring about it. This is simply not true of the H. Front suspension indeed seems okay, rear is just not up to it (comparatively) at all, unless you're fully laden with pillion, or are a heavier rider.

The trouble for many commentators is that there have been very few dirt-track friendly bikes available in the subcontinent with which to compare it. How many have had the chance to ride a BMW K650 or Africa twin here? They were/are just so rare in India. All other comparisons are essentially, by necessity, going to be against strongly street-oriented bikes, because that’s about all that’s ever been available here. Including old-school Bullets with their rock-hard shockers (though later ones are much improved, and with the springer seats about as comfy on any terrain as the common-man is going to find). Moving on to Jim's objection/question:


Yes, have ridden (I think) three of these H's. For how long? Long enough to lose interest in what I’d really hoped would be a great bike for me to own. Ridden on same terrain, compared with my Impulse and a std. Bullet 500. Lahaul most notably, on gravel/broken pavement mainly, en route to Ladakh. Vs. my 150cc the power was really great, but the suspension was simply not. And (not on the worst of roads, but broken enough) both myself and another, younger rider, with whom I switched off, came away from it thinking the Bullet 500 was more satisfying in most ways; and we were both assessing with intent to purchase (part of the reason I bought my Machismo vs. a first-gen H. I could’ve bought second-hand for not much more). Indeed, besides my "seat of the pants" observations, I did observe others' pant-seats on the rough sections, and observed that H. owners' asses were bouncing consistently higher off the seats (give or take an inch) than those of modern Bullets (whereas on the Impulse I was hardly bouncing at all). Thus highly scientific analyses here, I assure you ;-)

*******


2) I think what we have to remember here is that bike design is almost always driven by marketing – it has to be. The Impulse flopped partly due to its being underpowered for the hills, partly due to its looking "odd" (to traditionalists unfamiliar with the dual-sport genre), partly due to its propensity to throw water/mud all over commuter's pant-legs, also due to the high seat height, the lack of center-stand, etc. Confusion re: target market, or ignoring its preferences, is suicide.

So RE observed and learned and planned brilliantly, and the H. came with decent power, hybrid-classic looks, a center stand, and low front mudguard. RE was unapologetically obsessed with (1) keeping the saddle height low for the sake of shorter-legged riders (read: buyers), very important in this context; But then (2) the GC should also be ample - But then (3) they've got a rather tall engine with a weighty crank and long-ish stroke, which they couldn't get around in trying to appease torque-addicted traditionalists. But these three are at odds, so large compromises would have to be made.

The way I see it, GC as advertised is measured at rest unladen, helpful for marketing purposes, so the H. spec looks good. But throw a leg over it and it squats way down, so just about any rider can plant their soles comfortingly on the ground – effective seat height very low then - though now actual GC, underway with rider's weight factored in, is likely within an inch of a laden Bullet’s (pipe's still down under, mind you).

But if buyers are actually going to adv-tour with it, they DO need as much GC as possible, so maybe what RE had to do is make the rear spring less truly "progressive" than it is a "step" - squats low for foot-planting, but then things firm up pretty abruptly so that the relatively heavy machine (oh yeah, #4 – it’s gotta be kinda heavy so people will feel its “quality” and “stability” and “road presence” - that was effectively acknowledged in the early RE promo video)... Eh, so that heavy machine won't deflect the suspension much / take belly impacts under downward inertia on rough patches. You actually can’t afford to have much suspension travel with these constraints. Ride comfort? Forget it, the target market was raised on mostly hard-riding bikes and weren’t going to be that discriminating (I’m convinced that colloquially, if something rode “hard” - or was heavy – or both, it seemed “strong” - it was certainly that way 20 years ago when I first landed).

I realize that the compromises here are within what a lot of people can (or have to) live with. For me, being a long-legged 6'2" and 75kg’s, usually solo and light on luggage, it just doesn't make sense. Legs are too bent, GC is too low (I snapped the shifter shaft off on a rock yesterday even on the Impulse, which is much higher off the ground), and yes, rear suspension is just way too hard.

Perhaps I was too harsh – it needn't be revised for my sake, and a better solution may be impossible within the specified parameters. The compromises are too large IMO… but if the seat were 1-1/2” higher and by that you cut out 20% of the buyers but gain the possibility of a real, working, progressive rear suspension that only 5% would know enough about to appreciate… well, you’ve lost 15% of your net sales. It works like that.

I was riding behind two expert riders going furiously all-out on a terrible, stony dirt road (in Ladakh), one on a Bullet Electra, one on a Himalayan. They were shockingly well-matched in terms of speed and control. At another point I was on my Impulse, racing against my buddy on his Himalayan coming up one of the worst stretches, the backside of Rohtang. His power was clearly superior, but I could carve the turns tighter and go full-on over the rough stuff, where he simply couldn't. Which is to say he bettered me somewhat uphill and I’d have had a fair advantage downhill (even with him being the better rider). But racing is not the point here... Point is my spine wasn’t getting jarred, my butt not bouncing off the seat the way it had been when riding the H. My friend had no option but to stand on the pegs.

There have been other expert reviews where the H's seat comfort was complained about, but anyway, enough said. When these more substantially hit the U.S. and other markets, and people who've been riding better-suspended machines start testing / buying / riding them, I think we're going to see more comments like my own. Nice commuter / urban bike / all-rounder, but far from ideal for the rough tracks. A step in the right direction perhaps, but eliminate just one or two of those four constraints (the tall engine and the weight most naturally), and you can actually be offered a much better performing bike.

Regards,
-Eric

[Cj3bDog]

Eric -

I just wait now for you to test ride the new BMW 310 GS on these terrains.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Cj3bDog

Eric - I just wait now for you to test ride the new BMW 310 GS on these terrains.

I'd love to, it looks interesting and I'd expect it to go pretty well... though it's pretty oversquare and power apparently stronger above 6,000rpm, so I don't know how torquey. Which wouldn't matter if it were featherweight, but at 170kg's fully fueled (only an 11L tank, so range will be a little limited), not much less mass than the Himalayan. And it costs about double, despite its probably sharing quite a few bits with the much cheaper Apache 310. I think you're paying for the badge here. And the dealer network? I'd expect it to be highly refined vs. the H, but still... for myself I'd probably be better off to just retrofit a longer, more suitable rear shocker on the Himalayan.

One advantage is that at 310cc, it might keep the insurance rate a little lower than the others (incl. KTM's 390). With third-party at least, as of this year the cost doubles above 350cc... just discovered that when renewing the Machismo.

-Eric