[ashwinprakas]

Hey guys,

While raiding through YouTube to figure out how to go about a DC conversion for my Bajaj CT100B I landed on this video that shows world motorcycle traveler Rosie Gabrielle stranded in the middle of nowhere outside Capetown when she took her motorcycle for a test ride after it had undergone a complete service at the Capetown Yamaha Dealership.

It finally happened ....I repeat NEVER trust motorcycle mechanics

As per the video the motorcycle after inspection was declared to be fit to cross Africa but failed shortly after covering roughly 300 km's or so, the failure seems to be to having run without oil which she had asked to be changed at the dealership, as per her observations there seems to be no signs of leak or exhaust tip residue indicating that the oil had entered the combustion chamber.

Now there are those who blame the motorcycle and those who blame the motorcyclist and I am not one to judge, but what caught my attention was something she said, which went along the lines of "I paid for a service, why didn't they service my bike".

Irrespective of whatever might be the reason for failure I believe that anyone who rides a motorcycle should be knowledgeable enough to work on their own motorcycles, my ideology is simple 'If you cant fix it, then you better not be riding it' this is also why I prefer to own and ride motorcycles that are easy to work on. Which ironically was the main reason why riders of the past chose to tour on Royal Enfields, they were relatively easy to work on and you could just about get it running in the middle of nowhere.

Now I know fixing a motorcycle is not the prime concern here but seeing the distress and helplessness on Gabrielle's face while she had to go through with the experience really did make me wonder if she would have been able to avoid such an issue if she had chosen to work on her own motorcycle or at least be more involved in its maintenance than completely be dependent on the Dealer, not saying that the latter is not to blame but it sure does make me think.

What do you say?

[payeng]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Irrespective of whatever might be the reason for failure I believe that anyone who rides a motorcycle should be knowledgeable enough to work on their own motorcycles, my ideology is simple 'If you cant fix it, then you better not be riding it' this is also why I prefer to own and ride motorcycles that are easy to work on.

Which ironically was the main reason why riders of the past chose to tour on Royal Enfields, they were relatively easy to work on and you could just about get it running in the middle of nowhere.

How many would be able to fix their car's/suv's/4w's in this day and age?

With our machines becoming sophisticated (EFI/Electronics/ABS/Traction control etc.), I have my doubts expecting owners to repair/service their rides would be realistic. Unless you are like Ed March who travels around the world on Honda C90 (or their derivatives).

One can definitely learn to check the engine oil level though.

[rakesh_r]

Originally Posted by payeng

How many would be able to fix their car's/suv's/4w's in this day and age?

With our machines becoming sophisticated (EFI/Electronics/ABS/Traction control etc.), I have my doubts expecting owners to repair/service their rides would be realistic. Unless you are like Ed March who travels around the world on Honda C90 (or their derivatives).

One can definitely learn to check the engine oil level though.

This is exactly the reasons why I still love the old Karizma or the Suzuki Fiero, both were reliable to the core and would any day survive even a Nuclear Holocaust.
The RE Himalayan BS3 version would have been the most ideal and reliable tourer, clean and purposeful design with minimalistic electronics. Unfortunately RE screwed it up with substandard QC.
Sharing a similar case, Junaid Murtazza of the art of motorcycles had to go through similar situation when his Triumph Tiger broke down and the RSA just didn't help him out and decided to play "Push pull Train" with him.
Mind you, he is an expert mechanic, but the repair job warranted a clean room since he had to open up the gearbox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP7nekfjAG4&t=1349s

One of the lines that Junaid spoke was "If it was an RE, the issue would have been fixed long back" which unfortunately is very true.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by payeng

How many would be able to fix their car's/suv's/4w's in this day and age?

With our machines becoming sophisticated (EFI/Electronics/ABS/Traction control etc.), I have my doubts expecting owners to repair/service their rides would be realistic. Unless you are like Ed March who travels around the world on Honda C90 (or their derivatives).

One can definitely learn to check the engine oil level though.

Well, path of least resistance right? So yes, it is nothing but commonsense that a person using any machine for that matter should go through the basics which sounds just about right but fact is most people I know do not know how to check their own oil levels nevertheless change their own engine oil, I remember an instance where I removed the oil cap of my friends FZ16 a couple of years back and we could literally see smoke coming out of it, there wasn't even a drop of oil. In this case it is clear that the fault is with the rider who did not even bother to go through the motorcycles instruction manual.

As for the rest of the matter regarding cars and motorcycles of this day and age, it makes sense that you cannot expect the average user to know a lot but then again you don't expect the average user to haul so many miles in a day. It is the current day enthusiast I am worried about, I know a good percent of experienced motorcyclists who are like Rosie and depend entirely on the dealerships, which is ideal as far as a commercial product goes but is not practical for a plethora of reasons, the video in Rakesh's post is the best example of why.

And it is not like you don't have options, we still do have motorcycles(The Splendor series for example, especially being a c90 derivative) designed with simplicity available but the reason most people don't opt for the same is merely due to maintaining their status quo, I've been told by many riders that they ride certain motorcycles because they don't find other motorcycles cool or manly, well, what I don't understand is which part of ending up a damsel in distress appears cool or manly to them?

As for c90Adventures, well the guy makes sense because I remember him saying something along the lines of "if something breaks then it slows down, still keep running though" what he does and says makes sense, cause all things considered his overall moving time average would be better than anyone less informed riding a state of the art motorcycle.

I hope that makes sense and I'm not missing anything crucial here, asking as I lately find myself to be biased as far as motorcycles and motorcyclists go in spite of efforts to maintain diplomacy.

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

This is exactly the reasons why I still love the old Karizma or the Suzuki Fiero, both were reliable to the core and would any day survive even a Nuclear Holocaust.
The RE Himalayan BS3 version would have been the most ideal and reliable tourer, clean and purposeful design with minimalistic electronics. Unfortunately RE screwed it up with substandard QC.
Sharing a similar case, Junaid Murtazza of the art of motorcycles had to go through similar situation when his Triumph Tiger broke down and the RSA just didn't help him out and decided to play "Push pull Train" with him.
Mind you, he is an expert mechanic, but the repair job warranted a clean room since he had to open up the gearbox.

One of the lines that Junaid spoke was "If it was an RE, the issue would have been fixed long back" which unfortunately is very true.

The Karizma is not as reliable(read random compression losses) as people think it is, though it is more reliable than most motorcycles available in the market these days.

As far as surviving holocausts go, the Honda Cub derivatives such as the Hero Splendor, HF Deluxe, HF Dawn etc are the real deal, the Cub was declared the winner of Top 10 motorcycles around the world by Discovery channel if my memory serves me right. Then second comes the Bajaj CT100B, coming from Kawasaki the motor is way more reliable than most premium offerings and in spite of not being as flawless and tractile as the Cub's still offers a good bang for the buck. Then in the performance segment we surprisingly have the Kawasaki Gen Pulsars, though known to leak oil they have a reputation of running as long as the minimum oil level is maintained, coming from a Karizma I got the shock of my life seeing the head cover leak oil on my P220 roughly a year after ownership, but guess what I've never bothered about it as per advise from experienced Pulsar owners and guess what with more than 3x more km's on the ODO the motorcycle is still running fine after several interstate commutes and rides, the leak is still there, and trust me when I say that the P220 was way more reliable and trouble free as far as the Karizma's ownership of 55k+ km's went, though I still have over 20k+ km's to cover on the P220 to reach that figure, lets see what life has in store for me. Fingers crossed!

As for the Himalayan, well, with RE's current QC standards I would doubt it would even serve as a commuter forget touring. We do have an owner in the Kerala xBhp group who by now has an almost new motorcycle due to the number and frequency of parts replaced which again is plus as far as RE ownership's go cause I know cases where reputable brands have made owners run circles to claim warranty, I myself have a few negative experiences with Hero on that front owning the 2011 Karizma that came with the first batch of SAL cylinder kits.

Now coming to the matter at hand, I hope you've watched the video following the one you've shared;

How We Brought Maya Back To life

As you can see when Triumph RSA failed to honor their commitment Junaid got his hands dirty and fixed the issue himself in under 2 hours, he was only able to do so because he was well prepared, he accounted for mechanical fatigue which is something a good percent of motorcycles aren't even aware of and I strongly believe that this needs to change.

Plus in retrospect if the same would've happened to Junaid while he was riding a CT100B or a Splendor then he could've got back on the road within a matter of minutes from the spring/shaft snapping provided he had the replacement or presence of mind for a Jugaad as in the case with his Triumph, here's a video of the same being changed on a Honda Shine,

Honda Shine change Gear Spring

The tools he uses are the same I carry in my tool kit, except for the clutch holder the lack of which can be overcome by using the rear brake to lock the clutch.

Though unfair to compare motorcycles, it is justifiable to say that an enthusiast who wishes to haul some serious miles should know more than changing his own fluids and for everyone else they should at least know how to change their own fluids.

Adding to knowledge about motorcycles carrying spares help as well, I've ridden close to 300 km's from Thenkasi to Karur with a snapped clutch cable, my error was that I didn't bother about spares as the motorcycle was spanking new with an odo read of under 2k km's. Lesson learnt the hard way, plus knowing how a motorcycle transmission works helped as I was able to shift clutch-less on a new motorcycle without any damages, case would've been not so bothersome on a motorcycle with some miles on it due to the obvious.

[blackwasp]

Disclaimer: I don't own a motorcycle, nor do I ride one. However, I've been a pillion for 3-4 longish bike rides of 400+ kms.

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Irrespective of whatever might be the reason for failure I believe that anyone who rides a motorcycle should be knowledgeable enough to work on their own motorcycles, my ideology is simple 'If you cant fix it, then you better not be riding it'...

I disagree. Motorcycle is just a machine, and there should be no reason for it to be inherently be unreliable compared to a car. While I agree that you have to carry spares and stuff especially on long tours / trips, I don't want to carry around a portable garage. Whats the point of buying a new bike if I end up repairing it on the roadside myself? However, if the servicing guys are incompetent, thats the manufacturers problem.

During car trips, the only spares I carry are some leftover oil from the previous service (around 400-500ml) and 2L of premix coolant and some zip ties and tape. Never have I been stranded on a long trip. Once in my old car, the slave cylinder of the clutch broke about 10 kms from my home. I parked the car to the side, went for a movie and next day (it was late) arranged the towing to the garage.

It takes away from the fun of enjoying the trip if you are constantly worried about something going wrong with your ride.

[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

...

Irrespective of whatever might be the reason for failure I believe that anyone who rides a motorcycle should be knowledgeable enough to work on their own motorcycles, my ideology is simple 'If you cant fix it, then you better not be riding it' ...

What do you say?

What about computers, mobile phones, washing machines, any modern appliance or consumer grade machine?

In the case of this unfortunate rider, while the blame is clearly with the service centre, it is also her responsibility to check the basics before setting off on a long distance ride. Being entirely dependant on the bike, it is common sense to check the oil, brakes, etc. But I wouldn't expect her or anyone to know much more about the technical stuff.

It's just not possible to learn so many things outside of one's own expertise.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by blackwasp

I disagree. Motorcycle is just a machine, and there should be no reason for it to be inherently be unreliable compared to a car. While I agree that you have to carry spares and stuff especially on long tours / trips, I don't want to carry around a portable garage. Whats the point of buying a new bike if I end up repairing it on the roadside myself? However, if the servicing guys are incompetent, thats the manufacturers problem.

This is not a question of reliability as the same can be subjective on many dimensions, a Hayabusa can be more reliable than my Pulsar on some counts and not even remotely as reliable on other counts, so leaving the concern of reliability aside we'll move to the present concern of being adequately informed/prepared for foreseeable outcomes.

During car trips, the only spares I carry are some leftover oil from the previous service (around 400-500ml) and 2L of premix coolant and some zip ties and tape. Never have I been stranded on a long trip. Once in my old car, the slave cylinder of the clutch broke about 10 kms from my home. I parked the car to the side, went for a movie and next day (it was late) arranged the towing to the garage.

The reason you carry fluids is because you know that they are the weakest of links when it comes to all things that can go wrong for the intended use at hand, and that is all that is expected from the average owner, and I believe we both agree that anything less would purely be ignorance, which is what I'm saying and stand by.

P.S. Carry a bottle of brake fluid as well, though not common if your pump develops a leak then it can cause the fluid to vanish without a trace, happened to me on my Zen, fluid was at the top marker before the run and midway I lost my brakes, there were no signs of leaks and the issue never resurfaced after adding more fluid, and this was not a long haul, just a short round trip of under 60 km's if memory serves me right.

It takes away from the fun of enjoying the trip if you are constantly worried about something going wrong with your ride.

Ignorance is bliss, but I'd rather be prepared than be at the mercy of luck and god knows what or who else. But all things said, there are no guarantees that carrying all the tools and spares would make sure that you ride flawless, cause even with everything in hand we could still end up stranded and that is that, but being prepared does help set my mind at ease.

Its kinda like the tool kit that comes along with the motorcycle/car, you might not need it but it makes sense to have it and especially makes sense if you've gone through the owners manual and know how to go about troubleshooting beforehand, as believed by myself and many before me, "if something can break, then it will break and having to replace it for the FIRST time on the side of a highway with trucks blazing by doesn't help one bit"

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

What about computers, mobile phones, washing machines, any modern appliance or consumer grade machine?

In the case of this unfortunate rider, while the blame is clearly with the service centre, it is also her responsibility to check the basics before setting off on a long distance ride. Being entirely dependant on the bike, it is common sense to check the oil, brakes, etc. But I wouldn't expect her or anyone to know much more about the technical stuff.

It's just not possible to learn so many things outside of one's own expertise.

There are a lot of things a lot of people who haul miles are unaware of and that can be justified to an extent, but it is nothing but ignorance and carelessness on ones part to not know the basics and the gravity of the matter increases the farther away you intend to go from your parking lot.

As for appliances, I might only carry my daily phone when I'm running errands around town and when I'm leaving for a while maybe crossing district borders I carry a power bank at best. But when I'm crossing state borders on a motorcycle then I'm certain to carry a spare phone in case of emergencies and that doesn't change if I'm using an iPhone or a Mi Phone.

In the end all that matters is being prepared for the situation at hand, if you are not then it is no ones fault but your own and you yourself would end up paying for it.

"What we can, we must! Only so can we leave the rest to God."

[neil.jericho]

Ive been riding for over 16 years now and Ive always been fascinated by the rose tinted ideology that if you are a 'real' biker, you have to know to service / fix your bike. I still find it as funny today as I did when I first heard it. Now I completely agree that in a worst case scenario, say your clutch cable snaps while you are on a solo ride, it is handy to know how to replace a clutch cable yourself rather than wait for help. I myself didnt know much about simple DIYs but over the years I have picked up bits and pieces.


But coming to the scenario described above, if you are paying for a bike service, you are paying for professional (and one expects by extension competent, this is based on the assumption that the person in question is a reputed professional and not some fly by night operator) experts to do a job that they are trained to do day in and day out. The same way you pay a doctor for medical services and a music teacher so your kid can play the guitar. I doubt one is going to self diagnose themselves after going to a qualified and reputed doctor. Besides if you know everything about servicing the bike, you are better off doing it yourself right?


What I do is opt to wait in the dealership and keep an eye on the bike being serviced so that I know what all they have done rather than how they have done it. But not everybody has that luxury, which is fine. It doesnt matter to me if this screw has to be turned 5 1/2 times clockwise or anti clockwise. There is more to life than supervising or double checking every company or FNG service of your automobile, right?


I dont want to sit and learn each and every little nitty gritty of motorcycle servicing. The same way I dont want to sit and learn each and every little nitty gritty of hundreds of other things that occupy my life. I would rather conserve the time I have to learn and know more about the few things that really fascinate me. Or just take an afternoon nap. I hope that doesnt make me any less of a biker than someone who can dismantle his motorcycle engine and reassemble it. In 2 hours. With one hand. While blindfolded. In the dark.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Ive been riding for over 16 years now and Ive always been fascinated by the rose tinted ideology that if you are a 'real' biker, you have to know to service / fix your bike. I still find it as funny today as I did when I first heard it. Now I completely agree that in a worst case scenario, say your clutch cable snaps while you are on a solo ride, it is handy to know how to replace a clutch cable yourself rather than wait for help. I myself didnt know much about simple DIYs but over the years I have picked up bits and pieces.

Well friend, there are people who've been riding(read commuting) all their lives and they would be in no better position than a novice as far as motorcycle maintenance goes, though irresponsible to not even bother going through the instruction manual considering their nature of use it might not make a difference.

The real concern is towards the less informed enthusiast who thinks the biker lifestyle is all about the bling and ends up getting stranded, hurt or worse.

You can be a commuter for decades and survive being less informed but once you commit to the lifestyle and start hauling miles the lay of the land changes, quite literally.

Rosie got lucky cause worst case scenario her ignorance could have got her killed, I believe that is a kind of risk no one in their right mind would take and this is where ignorance becomes bliss, and long as you have no clue of the flip side all seems well, the real question being if it really is so?

Now I could go about mechanical fatigue, average annual mileage, change intervals and such but fact be told people are least bothered about those and seldom learn even after experiencing the flip side due to being unable to comprehend that what has happened had happened merely and solely due to their misjudgment.

We do have trained professionals and in a perfect world that would do, but all things considered the world is not perfect and irrespective of whether you own a bathtub or like to surf, it helps to know CPR because in the flip side if something goes wrong you can't pull a professional out of your back pocket like Wile E Coyote.

There was an article about a guy who rode a motorcycle all his life without using any form of riding gear and he had never met with an accident of any sort. Sounds fun and it did seem to work out for him. But does that mean everyone should follow suite?

Who knows! It might be Darwinism at play here or something else. But what I know for sure is that if I'm prepared then if nothing it at least puts me at ease. And being prepared doesn't mean that you should be able to build a motorcycle on your own, it just means that you take the effort to know the tool more before deciding to engage in the sport in the interest of your own well-being and safety.

Hope I've made things clear. If not then if time permits I can go about an excel sheet showing the average life span of consumables on a motorcycle and why it makes absolute sense to know how to fix your motorcycle if ever intending to cover some serious miles.

Cheers.
A.P

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Ive been riding for over 16 years now and Ive always been fascinated by the rose tinted ideology that if you are a 'real' biker, you have to know to service / fix your bike. I still find it as funny today as I did when I first heard it.

Anyone who rides a bike has to be real, and a real biker. Else it gets spooky scary. Real bikers can also get into real trouble, get stuck in remote locations for extended times. They may enjoy or repent the whole ordeal depending on their personality. When travelling internationally, it is always hard to get parts for your specific bike, and expertise on that specific bike. When you have had the bike for years, you may really be the expert on your bike. Think of instances when the wrong arm was operated on by a doctor/surgeon. Even a bad patient would be able to point to the arm/leg with the issue. When you are in a remote town, you do not have the luxury of picking the best mechanic, or the part with the best compatibility. You go with what is available, and who ever is available.
Things like changing engine oil, oil filter, chain, brake pads are things that we know well in advance, and things that we can plan for. You can either plan to be in a city/mechanic at this time, or plan to do it yourself. Both of which will not make the biker any less real :-)

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

The same way you pay a doctor for medical services and a music teacher so your kid can play the guitar. I doubt one is going to self diagnose themselves after going to a qualified and reputed doctor.

I would consider this to be a weak analogy. Yes, one needs to have an understanding of what he is tinkering with. Much of the expertise we gain is out of necessity. There was a point in time, where I could just not afford a mechanic. That led me to learn to do stuff on my own. That was the only way I could continue to ride.
The first time is hard like anything else in life. But, with so much help available online, (that too specific to bike/models) things are much more easier these days. The big thing that is needed is time, and interest. There is also a need for an initial investment on tools, and physical space/garage. But it is easy to see the economics of the investment before taking up any task.