[Yieldway17]

I think I will go against the flow here but to start with I will say I'm not a big fan of dealerships at all. They are middlemen providing mediocre experience and especially with these premium brands monopoly in the city.

But I also am a believer of the idea that price of a non-essential product is something what the market can bear. If the dealership says and can issue me an invoice saying that handling charges are 15k and taxes will be incurred on that, I would have no problems paying that amount because that's the effective price of that bike.

Indian courts sometimes overreach into how a for-profit business operates in the pretext of consumer protection. Consumer protection is essential but where the buck stops? Will the court order the manufacturers next that they can't price a product beyond some amount? How is a manufacturer and a dealership as a for-profit business different? If anything, court doesn't have any say on this at all and this should be covered in operating terms between the manufacturer and the dealership. The whole thing about these charges as illegal is inconsequential in my opinion because of this.

[deelip]

Originally Posted by Yieldway17

But I also am a believer of the idea that price of a non-essential product is something what the market can bear. If the dealership says and can issue me an invoice saying that handling charges are 15k and taxes will be incurred on that, I would have no problems paying that amount because that's the effective price of that bike.

So the right thing for BMW to do is raise the ex-showroom price of the motorcycle by Rs 15,000 and pass it on to the dealer. Problem solved. How many customers willing to pay Rs 3.49 lakhs for a 310 GS would not buy it if it was Rs 15,000 more?

But why announce a false ex-showroom price, pass little to the dealers and then have the dealers extort more money from the customers by lying to them about transportation charges from factory to showroom, threatening to cancel bookings and crap like that? That just ruins the whole buying experience. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth from the start and makes everyone upset.

This is not the experience you expect when buying a premium motorcycle. Or anything for that matter, premium or not.

[Yieldway17]

Originally Posted by deelip

This is not the experience you expect when buying a premium motorcycle. Or anything for that matter, premium or not.

Agreed completely. If the dealerships worked with manufacturers to price it in the ex-showroom price, all would be happy. And that's the best experience for the customer too and poor experiences such as this should be punished in the market not legally . And customer always have the option of not buying the product from them especially with these kind of bait and switches.

But asking dealership on how their business operates, why do they charge for storage, how they price their product etc. is beyond a customer's scope of business with them. The seller quotes a price they believe is the fair market price for the product and buyer either accept the price or doesn't accept it and bargains for a lower price or doesn't accept and not buy. Buyer has a choice to not buy and can exercise it and seller has a choice to not sell at a price they think will not make profit and can exercise it well.

[deelip]

Originally Posted by Yieldway17

The seller quotes a price they believe is the fair market price for the product and buyer either accept the price or doesn't accept it and bargains for a lower price or doesn't accept and not buy. Buyer has a choice to not buy and can exercise it and seller has a choice to not sell at a price they think will not make profit and can exercise it well.

Ah! Now you are coming to the point. Seller (BMW Motorrad) did quote a price which it thinks is the fair market price. Seller's agent (Bavaria Motors) decides to extort money from customers and ask for an amount which more than the fair market price announced by the seller. And there lies the problem. Seller should compensate agent adequately and factor the compensation into the fair market price. Then whoever wants to buy will buy and whoever doesn't want to buy won't buy. That way the agent won't need to do something that is illegal and make a mess of the whole buying experience.

[samjav]

My First post.

I have got a lot of information from discussions here at this forum. I thought i'd also contribute my experiences so some may benefit.

In 2017 I too had an episode with BMW Infinity cars, Mumbai regarding 'Logistics' fees. They wanted me to cough up 90k towards this for a 525d.

Long story short I took up this matter with the Transport Commissioner of Maharashtra & it was deemed illegal and necessary action was taken. I eventually got my car without paying the logistics fee.

A member of the press picked up the case and with great hesitation I agreed to make a story out of it.

https://www.mid-day.com/articles/sou...uyers/18680187

Despite this, till date BMW dealers & some other car dealers are listing this 'logistics' charge on their price lists and pro-formas. If any reader here is facing this same problem, I suggest you complain on the website of the Transport Commissioner Maharashtra thru <https://aaplesarkar.mahaonline.gov.in> and you will surely get relief.

In the absence of strict regulatory oversight, car manufactures & dealers are running amok. I was very surprised when BMW India told me at the time that whatever transpired between the dealer and the buyer was between them & BMW would not intervene. I found this very irresponsible of such a large company.

[timuseravan]

Not a BMW but Bavaria story. I was in the area with Ducati dealership couple of weeks back. It is also run by Bavaria in Pune. I checked out some bikes and overall the experience was good.
The sales guy informed me that they have a special 25k discount running on the entire Scrambler range and also handed me the price list.

Back home, I saw the price list and they have included on average a mind-boggling 1.2 lakh "handling" charge hidden under (RTO+Regn+Hand) heading.
For example, the Scrambler Classic has exShowroom price of 8.5lakh. And per my calculations, the RTO charges should be around 1 lakh. Bavaria lists the charges as 2.14 lakh!

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by timuseravan

Back home, I saw the price list and they have included on average a mind-boggling 1.2 lakh "handling" charge hidden under (RTO+Regn+Hand) heading.
For example, the Scrambler Classic has exShowroom price of 8.5lakh. And per my calculations, the RTO charges should be around 1 lakh. Bavaria lists the charges as 2.14 lakh!

Definitely something fishy - no way a dealership can charge 1.2L as handling charges :-) Please ask them for the breakup.

[whencut86]

Originally Posted by timuseravan

Not a BMW but Bavaria story. I was in the area with Ducati dealership couple of weeks back. It is also run by Bavaria in Pune. I checked out some bikes and overall the experience was good.
The sales guy informed me that they have a special 25k discount running on the entire Scrambler range and also handed me the price list.

Back home, I saw the price list and they have included on average a mind-boggling 1.2 lakh "handling" charge hidden under (RTO+Regn+Hand) heading.
For example, the Scrambler Classic has exShowroom price of 8.5lakh. And per my calculations, the RTO charges should be around 1 lakh. Bavaria lists the charges as 2.14 lakh!

The Scrambler is a CBU I guess. So 20 percent road tax in Maharashtra and 3 percent cess on the tax. So tax would be 1.7 lakhs and cess would be 5100 on tax. If this doesnt include insurance then roughly 40K is the handling charge.

[timuseravan]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

Definitely something fishy - no way a dealership can charge 1.2L as handling charges :-) Please ask them for the breakup.

I saw the price list back home and am not really interested in buying. So did not follow up.

Originally Posted by whencut86

The Scrambler is a CBU I guess. So 20 percent road tax in Maharashtra and 3 percent cess on the tax. So tax would be 1.7 lakhs and cess would be 5100 on tax. If this doesnt include insurance then roughly 40K is the handling charge.

Insurance was listed separately. But your calculations do make more sense

[//M]

Maharashtra has 22% RTO tax for 800cc+ CBUs so for a 8.5 L ex-showroom price, the RTO charges are around 1.9 Lakhs. The remaining amount could be the infamous Handling/Logistics charges.

I have seen the same practice at Kawasaki Pune as well wherein they were charging INR 50,000 additionally and this was included as a part of RTO charges. When me and fellow bhpian 599gto questioned this, the Kawasaki guys were caught in the wrong foot. They started making up stories like they have to pay charges to agents etc etc. This was in late 2017, no idea about their (mal)practice now.

BU Bhandari Triumph also charged me INR 26,000 against Logistics Charges for my Tiger 800. When I refused to pay the money, they lured me with free accessories costing more (around 42K) citing that Logistics Charges cannot be avoided. Since I anyway had to buy some essential accessories (like Sump Guard, Center Stand, Engine Dresser Bar) from the showroom, I saved some money and just went ahead with paying the Logistics Charges instead.

[whencut86]

Originally Posted by //M

Maharashtra has 22% RTO tax for 800cc+ CBUs so for a 8.5 L ex-showroom price, the RTO charges are around 1.9 Lakhs. The remaining amount could be the infamous Handling/Logistics charges.

I have seen the same practice at Kawasaki Pune as well wherein they were charging INR 50,000 additionally and this was included as a part of RTO charges. When me and fellow bhpian 599gto questioned this, the Kawasaki guys were caught in the wrong foot. They started making up stories like they have to pay charges to agents etc etc. This was in late 2017, no idea about their (mal)practice now.

BU Bhandari Triumph also charged me INR 26,000 against Logistics Charges for my Tiger 800. When I refused to pay the money, they lured me with free accessories costing more (around 42K) citing that Logistics Charges cannot be avoided. Since I anyway had to buy some essential accessories (like Sump Guard, Center Stand, Engine Dresser Bar) from the showroom, I saved some money and just went ahead with paying the Logistics Charges instead.

Maha has 20% tax for all CBU two wheelers. There is an additional 2% CESS which is only on the actual road tax and not on the ex-showroom price of the bike. Dealers cheat this way by just mentioning that tax is 22% but it is not clearly so. In this case actual road tax is 1.7 lakhs and cess is 3400 but dealers will simply claim 22% road tax and claim 187000 as road tax which is blatant cheating and they pocket the Rs.13600 differential amount.