[RahulNagaraj]

Xiaomi-owned, Segway-Ninebot has unveiled a new electric-hydrogen motorcycle concept called the Apex H2. The company has started accepting bookings, with crowdfunding to commence once the motorcycle garners 99 pre-orders.



The Segway Apex H2 electric-hydrogen motorcycle is scheduled to enter production in 2023. Once introduced, it is expected to carry a price tag of around CNY 69,999 (equivalent of Rs. 7.98 lakh), exclusive of taxes.



The Segway Apex H2 concept is powered by a hydrogen-electric powertrain. The hydrogen will come in replaceable canisters. These cylinders will be built out of solid alloy, ensuring safe storage and usage on the motorcycle.



Segway claims that the Apex H2 will offer both performance and efficiency. The company claims that the motorcycle uses one gram of hydrogen for every kilometre. The powertrain on the hybrid motorcycle is said to offer a maximum power output of 60kW (80 BHP).



Performance-wise, the Segway Apex H2 is claimed to be able to sprint from 0 – 100 km/h in under 4 seconds and achieve a top speed of 150 km/h.

Link to Team-BHP news

[Jeroen]

It looks like a prop from a Starwars movie.

Other then that, good toemeet more initiatives around hydrogen.

Jeroen

[Nikhildrao]

Hybrids is not the way to go. It's either hydrogen or all electric. Increasing the complexity, weight and the price is the only result of combing these technologies. Xiaomi should tread carefully here as a newbie

[ach1lles]

The more I get to know motorcycles, the more I feel that they've been gleefully stuck in an era that passed by half a century ago, with nothing new to offer except (more) power. The UI/Ux is abysmally vintage.
So, any new entrant to motorcycles with electric propulsion excites me. Bring them all, and get the incumbents to wake up from this slumber.

e-bikes have exploded, and motorcycles do not have extreme homologation requirements like cars. There's immense room for creativity in this space.

However, most of the new guys trying are falling into the same trap of "fast & exciting", including, apparently, Xiaomi. Expect a scooter from them too.
Boring.

We deserve better.

[Tucker48]

Originally Posted by Nikhildrao

Hybrids is not the way to go. It's either hydrogen or all electric. Increasing the complexity, weight and the price is the only result of combing these technologies. Xiaomi should tread carefully here as a newbie

It's not a hybrid, all hydrogen powered vehicles work the same. All hydrogen powered vehicles(unless it's a rocket) are electric vehicles. And that's why they are called FCEV's whereas with just batteries, vehicles are called BEV's. It's just the source of power that changes, other than that most of the components are same for the above two.

Edit: Wankel Rotary Engine is an exception which is actually a hybrid engine that uses both hydrogen and gas, but I guess it's only used for specific purposes. I'm not aware of any hybrid hydrogen car in production now. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[S15]

Originally Posted by ach1lles

The more I get to know motorcycles, the more I feel that they've been gleefully stuck in an era that passed by half a century ago, with nothing new to offer except (more) power. The UI/Ux is abysmally vintage.

What do you expect from a motorcycle?
Self-driving tech? Self-levelling? Active radar based anti-collision?

If thats what your expectations are, sorry to say, but you're totally disconnected with the motorcycling base.

The last, innovative motorcycle was the niken, and that was a massive flop.
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-...ha/niken/2019/


We, motorcyclists want our motorcycles to be 'lighter, faster and more reliable', not electric, non-polluting, and feature laden.

Motorcyclists are purists, they dislike change. And features.

[Manan9876]

Originally Posted by S15

Self-driving tech? Self-levelling? Active radar based anti-collision?

If thats what your expectations are, sorry to say, but you're totally disconnected with the motorcycling base.

We, motorcyclists want our motorcycles to be 'lighter, faster and more reliable', not electric, non-polluting, and feature laden.

Motorcyclists are purists, they dislike change. And features.

Won't type much, but it is a very tepid generalisation, motorcycles have seen innovation such as the Honda riding assist. The BMW electronic suspension and not to mention the host of sensor and valve technology in the current generation.

Which are features unless as a purist; which only include the wheels frame tank engine and carburettor.

Electronic or it's derivatives is the only way forward. Fossil fuels will run out, better to develop alternate fuels with current gen as templates.

Suggest to see the Japanese movie called Akira to have a glance on how future motorcycles might look.

This ' we motorcyclist' is an outdated concept thoroughly made fun of.

Your bike your ride.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by S15

What do you expect from a motorcycle?
Self-driving tech? Self-levelling? Active radar based anti-collision?

We, motorcyclists want our motorcycles to be 'lighter, faster and more reliable', not electric, non-polluting, and feature laden.

Motorcyclists are purists, they dislike change. And features.

This statement looks more absurd than the earlier one. How do you generalize? How will you not go electric and yet non polluting?

You purists will stop motorcycling in 10 or 20 years?

[arijitkanrar]

Originally Posted by ach1lles

The more I get to know motorcycles, the more I feel that they've been gleefully stuck in an era that passed by half a century ago, with nothing new to offer except (more) power. The UI/Ux is abysmally vintage.

I'd really like to know what made you say this?
Motorcycles stuck in an era that went by 50 years ago? How so? Is your yardstick by any chance a Royal Enfield or a Harley Davidson?
The former has even woken up and is bringing new motorcycles(not sure about the latter).

Nothing new to offer except more power?
Lets look at it this way.
These days there are different motorcycles for different needs.
Commuters, Scooters (mini and maxi), Sports bikes (street and track focused), Tourers(regular, adventure and luuxry), Off-road bikes (mild, soft, extreme), Cruisers all have very different purposes and serve them well.
I guess not so many flavors of motorcycles were available 50years ago?
The UI/UX is also very different across the spectrum. Not sure what is your interpretation of a motorcycle's UI/UX? Other than the fact that almost all motorcycles require the use of both hands and both feet and your body, all the motorcycles have UI that is tuned to their intended usage and offer totally different experience.
How would you make this experience any more modern?

Originally Posted by ach1lles

So, any new entrant to motorcycles with electric propulsion excites me. Bring them all, and get the incumbents to wake up from this slumber.

e-bikes have exploded, and motorcycles do not have extreme homologation requirements like cars. There's immense room for creativity in this space.

How would electric propulsion alone bring in an exciting new motorcycle?
Other than the propulsion which is electric and will be powerful, the concept from Xiaomi looks like another sports bike. A fun and exciting sports bike is much more than just the power at the wheels.

Originally Posted by ach1lles

However, most of the new guys trying are falling into the same trap of "fast & exciting", including, apparently, Xiaomi. Expect a scooter from them too.
Boring.

We deserve better.

Different strokes for different folks.
For someone wanting to get some items from a market 4kms away, or drop kids off at school, a fast and exciting sportsbike doesn't make sense.
A scooter makes far more sense.
If the market demands a scooter, Xiaomi will provide a scooter. They'd be crazy not to.
But to create the initial hype and visibility, they have to start with something fast and exciting.

[Samarth 619]

Originally Posted by Nikhildrao

Hybrids is not the way to go. It's either hydrogen or all electric. Increasing the complexity, weight and the price is the only result of combing these technologies. Xiaomi should tread carefully here as a newbie

Absolute truth. Although you didn't explain much, that's why you've been quoted a lot, that too negatively.
Hybrids are just complicated engineering, which will further separate the big companies from the rest. Just a temporary relief in my opinion. Not something we can look 30 years future in.

All electric is already proving itself, gradually though with still some technical and financial creases to iron out.
Hydrogen will ultimately have to pass the acid test (pun intended) of safety, but I don't presume it would be much of a challenge, or would it?
Hydrogen will prove to be a lightweight, commercially manufacturable, clean fuel whose burning only gives us water. I hope Wankel engine can make a return (if its not bugged by environmental concerns? which it shouldn't be?)
After all, even rockets use hydrogen and oxygen as their (non-polluting) fuel.

As far as electric is concerned, an electric vehicle is not green today:- the best it can do is keep the urban locations clean while the pollution from thermal (or even nuclear) power plants is disposed elsewhere.
But electric gives hope of a cleaner future. A future where we do live on renewable energy, mostly if not completely. The existing vehicles can be used in a situation where electricity gets greener for real, like with solar, wind, water and a combination of other energy sources..

Originally Posted by S15

What do you expect from a motorcycle?
Self-driving tech? Self-levelling? Active radar based anti-collision?
If thats what your expectations are, sorry to say, but you're totally disconnected with the motorcycling base.
We, motorcyclists want our motorcycles to be 'lighter, faster and more reliable', not electric, non-polluting, and feature laden.
Motorcyclists are purists, they dislike change. And features.

Completely agreed, but with the BS6 regulations and reducing support for decade old motorcycles, are we going in the direction that you point towards?
We have to be practical, and to some extent, some compromises have to be made.

In my ideal world, we'd be riding modern versions of 500cc 2 stroke GP bikes on the road.. 'In the ideal world', that is... :(

[ach1lles]

Originally Posted by arijitkanrar

I'd really like to know what made you say this?
Commuters, Scooters (mini and maxi), Sports bikes (street and track focused), Tourers(regular, adventure and luuxry), Off-road bikes (mild, soft, extreme), Cruisers all have very different purposes and serve them well.

Yet most tech developed and trickled down can be traced back to racing. A singular source for "innovation" for bikes we use on the road.

Originally Posted by arijitkanrar

How would you make this experience any more modern?

Off the top of my head, most of these have been possible for many years.
A persistent rear-view camera display
HUD (non helmet based)
Auto stand up and down
Ventilated seat
A built-in phone slot with wireless charging and CarPlay
Intuitive helmet storage
Water bottle holder
Auto-hold
Keyless start and go
Indicator self-cancel
Welcome and follow-me-home lights

These (and more) can be summed up by looking at the difference between cars of the 80's to today's cars and bikes of the same vintage to today.

Originally Posted by arijitkanrar

How would electric propulsion alone bring in an exciting new motorcycle?

When you remove the heavy and demanding ICE engine, the possibilities just open up.

Alternate control mechanisms: foot actuated accelerator
Haptics on handlebars/grips
Placement of weighted elements
Shape, structure
Can be much lighter
Comfort; more physiologically tuned ergonomics

These, apart from obvious advantages of the electric drivetrain.

Today, electric propulsion can't fulfil all use cases, but it can improve most use cases for most vehicles for most people. And most people don't care how fast their bike is to ride around a track, or how it feels while cornering.

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by Tucker48

It's not a hybrid, all hydrogen powered vehicles work the same. All hydrogen powered vehicles(unless it's a rocket) are electric vehicles. And that's why they are called FCEV's whereas with just batteries, vehicles are called BEV's. It's just the source of power that changes, other than that most of the components are same for the above two.

Edit: Wankel Rotary Engine is an exception which is actually a hybrid engine that uses both hydrogen and gas, but I guess it's only used for specific purposes. I'm not aware of any hybrid hydrogen car in production now. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

BMW had a hydrogen 7 series ICE vehicle for couple of years, 2005-2007. They discontinued it.

[sramanat]

This fascination with differentiating alternative fuel vehicles by making them look sci-fi movieish should stop. If the goal is to produce an energy efficient, green vehicle, I don't see how a hubless wheel design will help. I may be wrong, but from the dark background it looks like it is going to be hubless.