[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Reminds me of how Suzuki is happily selling a 24 hp GSX250R in some Asian markets where the competition consists of the 35 hp R25, the 40 hp CBR250RR, and the 4 cylinder 50 hp ZX25R.

I think the Suzuki is sold at a MUCH lower price point than the competition, besides the brand has several other motorbikes that sell well so it can afford to be "happy" selling the archaic GSX250R.

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

I mean just look at the NS200 vs RTR200. NS is like, here take this 25 hp but you better keep me on boil and stop complaining about my age and looks. RTR is like, nah, you don't need that, take 20, treat me how you want and I can get you close enough to that guy, maybe even beat him if you're up for it, but I'll keep things interesting and comfortable for you.

When comparing the RR310 and the RC390 it is both a major power deficit and a major torque deficit that the TVS has to contend with. The bike quite literally feels like it is meant to compete with the old 250s and 300s and not the modern bikes in that category. It isn't a case of "get you close enough to that guy, maybe even beat him if you're up for it" when you're on an rr310 vs an rc390. Unfortunately no matter how sweet a package the bike is it simply cannot compete with today's competition and likely will never be able to. That said, I respect the way TVS is still offering stuff like adjustable suspension, exhaust, race footpegs and clipons. Had it been any other brand the bike would probably have received a very step-motherly treatment. Makes me eager to see what TVS has in store for the rr310's replacement.

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I think the Suzuki is sold at a MUCH lower price point than the competition, besides the brand has several other motorbikes that sell well so it can afford to be "happy" selling the archaic GSX250R.

You could say the same thing about TVS as well. TVS has much better selling models lower down the price range that it can afford to keep selling and updating it's flagship model, and there's room to tout at least two more of these "sales-flop" flagship models with the kinds of units it's moving on the mopeds, scooters and commuter bikes.

People may dislike the GSX250R. But those who ride it like it for its relaxed ergos compared to other sportbikes, the easy natured power delivery, everyday usability, and the of course the price, all the while looking like something that came off the race track.

When comparing the RR310 and the RC390 it is both a major power deficit and a major torque deficit that the TVS has to contend with. The bike quite literally feels like it is meant to compete with the old 250s and 300s and not the modern bikes in that category.

Which are these modern bikes in the category? Since the R3 is no longer on sale, it's just the RC390 and the Ninja300. And these bikes are older than the TVS. The Ninja makes 4 hp more at 11k rpm. It also weighs 5 kg more and was launched a decade ago. The RC makes peak power at a slightly lower rpm, also weighs approx. 5kg more, and is also a decade old.

It isn't a case of "get you close enough to that guy, maybe even beat him if you're up for it" when you're on an rr310 vs an rc390. Unfortunately no matter how sweet a package the bike is it simply cannot compete with today's competition and likely will never be able to.

The RTRvsNS bit was me pointing out that TVS is a practical maker, knows the mind of the average indian enthusaist better than the enthusiasts themselves. That's why it makes products with a balance of performance and other comforts for a quality ownership experience. I didn't intend to say RRvsRC is the same as RTRvsNS, but it may co-incidentally be the case.

On the subject of RRvsRC though, on a race track, given two equally skilled users, the RC may consistently beat the RR. But how many people buy these bikes to ride exclusively on the race track? And even then, how many are skilled enough to wield all those 44 horses well?

If we take real world usability though, as in what kind of usage these bikes see on average, I wager there won't be an appreciable power difference between the two.

I mean the RR has good spread of usable power compared to the narrower band on the RC. So, if we're being real, for everyday usage, how many people rev up, dump the clutch and shoot off every time they start off for that superior 0-60, 0-100 times to be meaningful? Who does 9000 rpm all the time to really squeeze all those 44 horses out? Who shifts just right to stay in the powerband and drop into optimal lean during every turn for the supposedly superior cornering dynamics to come into play? Unless you ride b@!!s out on the RC, I say you're not going to be moving that much farther away from the RR. Even if you do intend to ride that way, will our roads in general, and the combination of the uptight bike and your body allow you to?

And if I can stay on your tail while paying 50k so lesser, not punishing my whole body, being able to do more with the bike, and getting more FE, I think I might be the actual winner here.

I do love peaky engines. So, KTM has my love there. But for TVS, there really isn't much meaningful competition out there to work hard to catch up to. It's doing adequate enough as is. They believe they have a competent product on their hands. Why else would they continue updating it every year?

That said, I respect the way TVS is still offering stuff like adjustable suspension, exhaust, race footpegs and clipons. Had it been any other brand the bike would probably have received a very step-motherly treatment. Makes me eager to see what TVS has in store for the rr310's replacement.

Absolutely agree. This is the kind of company in whose product you could put your faith for the long run.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

People may dislike the GSX250R. But those who ride it like it for its relaxed ergos compared to other sportbikes, the easy natured power delivery, everyday usability, and the of course the price, all the while looking like something that came off the race track.

Not sure it looks like it came off the track with what looks from images atleast, to be the lowest seat height.

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Which are these modern bikes in the category? Since the R3 is no longer on sale, it's just the RC390 and the Ninja300. And these bikes are older than the TVS. The Ninja makes 4 hp more at 11k rpm. It also weighs 5 kg more and was launched a decade ago. The RC makes peak power at a slightly lower rpm, also weighs approx. 5kg more, and is also a decade old.

The N400 would be a more relevant comparison since it was launched post the 390 which has definitely spiced up the segment since its launch.

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

On the subject of RRvsRC though, on a race track, given two equally skilled users, the RC may consistently beat the RR. But how many people buy these bikes to ride exclusively on the race track? And even then, how many are skilled enough to wield all those 44 horses well?

The same argument has no end to it. That way everyone may as well ride an R15 since how many know how to use all the 30 odd horses that the rr310 makes?

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

If we take real world usability though, as in what kind of usage these bikes see on average, I wager there won't be an appreciable power difference between the two.

I mean the RR has good spread of usable power compared to the narrower band on the RC. So, if we're being real, for everyday usage, how many people rev up, dump the clutch and shoot off every time they start off for that superior 0-60, 0-100 times to be meaningful? Who does 9000 rpm all the time to really squeeze all those 44 horses out? Who shifts just right to stay in the powerband and drop into optimal lean during every turn for the supposedly superior cornering dynamics to come into play? Unless you ride b@!!s out on the RC, I say you're not going to be moving that much farther away from the RR. Even if you do intend to ride that way, will our roads in general, and the combination of the uptight bike and your body allow you to?

And if I can stay on your tail while paying 50k so lesser, not punishing my whole body, being able to do more with the bike, and getting more FE, I think I might be the actual winner here.

All well and good to be waxing lyrical but let me give you a real world example from my own personal experience; Once encountered an rr310 late night while I was commuting through the city on my bike (1st gen RC390), the rider kept nudging for a race since he would rev up, go ahead of me, then slow down and repeat the process till the next red signal. At the signal I gave him a nod acknowledging his wishes and once the signal turned green, I decided to give him a bit of a headstart (a luxury the RC390 affords you nearly 95 percent of the time) and then proceeded to smoke him even after starting off nearly 2 seconds afterward. Mind you this was on an RC390 that had loads of chain slack as my bike was due for a new chain kit, and due to a slow leak, the rear tyre was running at 12psi.

I have ridden both bikes extensively since one of my friends was very interested in buying a used RR310 before the lockdown. I can confirm just as any other road tester would, that the RC390 definitely feels a LOT quicker, and does not even require a long test ride to notice the pace deficit in the rr310.

The RR310 is a great bike by all means but in a world where KTM keeps refining the 390, it does struggle to find a place in its segment. Sure some people may not want a sport bike in this segment for its sportiness but rather for its touring capabilities and then they might find the rr310 to be the better pick of the two, but if you're pitching it as a sport bike, the RC definitely runs circles around it.

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Not sure it looks like it came off the track with what looks from images atleast, to be the lowest seat height.

Hey now, if we go scrutinizing the specs, even the R3 and Ninja300 and 400 wont be looking like they came off the race track.

The N400 would be a more relevant comparison since it was launched post the 390 which has definitely spiced up the segment since its launch.

Why not the ZX25R too? I mean neither of these bikes are on the market right now, both make about 50 hp and both would cost more than double the RR's price to buy and run.

The same argument has no end to it. That way everyone may as well ride an R15 since how many know how to use all the 30 odd horses that the rr310 makes?

Let's be honest here. It's easier to manage less horses than more on a racetrack, and especially on our streets.

All well and good to be waxing lyrical but let me give you a real world example from my own personal experience; Once encountered an rr310 late night while I was commuting through the city on my bike (1st gen RC390),

the RC390 definitely feels a LOT quicker, and does not even require a long test ride to notice the pace deficit in the rr310.

I'm not disagreeing with you that the RC is the faster bike, but just that the RR is not far behind as far as average usage is concerned.

But look, if you compare a 2014 RC to a 2020 RC, the 2020 is the inferior bike with regard to performance. The throttle mapping was changed to be less aggressive, the tyres have been downgraded, some of the power would've been stuffed up thanks to BS6, and the weight has gone up by around 20 kgs or more. Even accounting for a few years of wear and tear on your particular bike, the ECU tune and the lower weight would probably still make a noticeable difference.

Now, if you're going to compare a 2014 RC to an RR310, of course there's going to be quite the difference. Why don't you pick the 2020 model RC and put it up against the '21 RR and tell us what you think?

the rider kept nudging for a race since he would rev up, go ahead of me, then slow down and repeat the process till the next red signal ... loads of chain slack as my bike was due for a new chain kit, and due to a slow leak, the rear tyre was running at 12psi.

I've got anecdotes too.

Years ago, I was on my Suzuki GS150R commuting to work in bangalore on empty roads around 3 am when this splendor came from behind and overtook me at 60kmph. Try as I might, I was not able to catch him on winding streets despite having a handful of hp over him on paper and wringing the heck out of the bike. So, when our routes diverged and I was still behind him, I had to resign to the thought that the bike had lost it's edge, being a well abused, 30k run beater at the time, that was redlined and bashed around every chance I got, and perhaps pending a few maintenance aspects, and so, I consoled myself reminiscing of the past glory days of 2010, 2011 when the bike was still new and responsive, and had taken on noisy Karizmas and pulsar 200s, and some other 150s down Chamundi and Nandi Hills, and at the bottom, had actually come out on top for whatever cheap thrills that was worth.

Another time, I got ahead of an R15 while riding uphill (I think somewhere in the Nilgiris) on a Hero Impulse of all bikes, simply because the guy (a friend) refused to go past mid rpms for fear of "breaking" his engine while I was hitting the redline right from 1st gear. The same guy beat me riding the same way downhill because the bike handled much sharper and had better brakes than mine.

Point is, there's many variables you may or may not account for when you try to judge the relative performance of motorcycles on the streets.

The RR310 is a great bike by all means but in a world where KTM keeps refining the 390, it does struggle to find a place in its segment.

This is what I was getting at earlier. It doesn't necessarily have to struggle owing to it's performance because it has other things going for it to offset that, while the RC is entirely about looking and going fast.

If we're being real, most people who buy sportbikes don't really buy it for the capabilities of the bike, but more for the look of these things and the hype it gets them. The case may be completely different with people on these forums, but we are a very minor, perhaps even negligible percentage of the Indian biking population.

The RR does have a market, every-day sportbike. It does most of what the RC can, while going beyond it in other areas. It's too bad if people don't recognize that.

Sure some people may not want a sport bike in this segment for its sportiness but rather for its touring capabilities and then they might find the rr310 to be the better pick of the two, but if you're pitching it as a sport bike, the RC definitely runs circles around it.

I don't disagree. But, again, it's all about how you want to use it, and manufacturers are recognizing people really want more out of these bikes than short runs, track days, and back and wrist aches at the end of it.

Why else would Yamaha and Kawasaki also put a more relaxed riding posture on the R3 and Ninja 400? It looks like even KTM is diluting the riding posture of the upcoming model RC390. Yeah, the clip ons can be slid down the forks for a more aggressive posture, but I think you may be able do that on the RR as well.

[neil.jericho]

I took a short test ride of the BS6 TVS Apache RR 310 BTO with the Race kit and the Dynamic kit. It had all the ingredients to make for a smashing track bike! The two things which immediately stood out were the
- lowered clip ons. They are aggressive in nature and at full lock, your hands might brush against the tank. This can make taking u-turns a predicament. On the flip side, they will make cornering in the twisties and on the track, a breeze.
- higher footpegs. This takes less getting used to, than the handlebars.

A lot of enthusiasts arent necessarily big fans of the TVS Racing paint scheme. After looking at it carefully, I must admit that I quite like it. If I was getting myself a RR310, I would definitely opt for this paint scheme.

This particular test ride bike was meant for the media and hence, it had seen a ton of abuse. The engine was rather gruff and quite unlike the one that I had ridden here (TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look). Even the throttle response was very herky jerky and un-TVS like. The Sales Advisor has also experienced the exact same issues and will make an effort to rectify them, before the bike goes back to TVS. Hopefully, I can get a test ride when the bike is in a better condition, than it is currently.

Standard paint scheme. Will look very tasty when its de-stickered.


Me likey!

Though I didnt ride the stock bike and the BTO bike with the two kits, back to back, Im pretty confident in stating that TVS has done an excellent job in giving customers two very different avataars of the RR310. The stock bike is a lovely sports tourer and the BTO bike seems to be tailor made for the track. Kudos to TVS for taking the initiative to make factory kitted track bikes, easily accessible to motorcycle enthusiasts.

[ZinFluent]

Happy to post that the new year started on a good note as I got home a pre-owned sparingly used BTO RR310 with just 1900 kms on the odo. Was on the lookout for a pre-owned BS6 RR310 since long but never got close to buying one. Luckily came across this BTO version on OLX, September 2021 make and October 2021 registered. Spoke to the owner who was relocating abroad, after a lot of deliberation, finally got it home. Considering the bike is only going to be used over the weekends, a pre-owned sparingly used bike made much more sense than going for a brand new one. Getting one with adjustable suspension was icing on the cake