[shreyashuilgol]

Hi there,

I feel like I could help you out here. I own a FZ25 and in my circle we have mostly 200-250cc bikes as daily drivers. The bikes that you have mentioned are all being used in our group.

Let's take it bike by bike-

Apache RTR:
It is one of the best choices. It gives a mileage of around 40kmpl and has sufficient features. Now let's answer your questions:
1). How bad is the pillion seat?
Not very bad. Not too comfortable for longer rides though. If the pillion is around 60-70kgs then it should not be an issue for city runs.
2). Being a 200cc, will I outgrow it too soon? Will it cry on the highway?
If you are a relaxed rider then there is no problem with outgrowing it. On the lighter side, the biker in us will outgrow even a 650 after a couple of months. Before we had better 400-650cc either new or second hand bikes in the group we used to do 500km odd rides on these 200-250s and RTR 200 never had issues keeping up with the 250s or even RE 350s.
3) How good is TVS reliability?
As such there is not a very big issue with reliability. We have changed the engine oil to a Motul 10w30 4T and it has made the bike very smooth.
4) Are the features really useful? Are they good enough to tip the decision in this bikes favour?
To answer your 2nd question first, for me they should not. Backing up that statement by saying that in our case we stopped using the features after the first 3-4 months.

Yamaha FZ25:
This is the bike that I own. I have taken it to every possible place where it could fit and it has never complained. Changed the tyres and engine oil to Motul 10w40 300v. The bike is super easy to maintain. Returning an average of 35-40kmpl.
1) The bike feels quite dated.
Absolutely agree. Although I preferred this because in my personal opinion the more the electronic parts the more the number of parts which can fail.
When it is purely mechanical it can be rectified by almost any mechanic.
2) I trust Yamaha more than TVS for reliability, but is this particular model that reliable?
Reliability is not an issue at all. You can be rest assured about it. I have taken this bike through dirt, water (not above the silencer of course), trails, highway, jumped over speed breakers and also though slush. Never an issue.
3) Is the ground clearance a hindrance.
Yes, it is. But only if there is a pillion with you. It will touch only those huge pyramid sized breakers. Even pretty deep ditches have not been an issue. Only the pyramids. If you are travelling alone, which looks like it is most often, it is not at all an issue.

The other two points are completely true. But, I don't think those should be deal breakers. Although if you plan to do some highway runs in the night then I would recommend you got a set of aux lights (if you end up buying it).

If your mind is with the RTR but heart is with the FZ then there is no harm in going with the FZ. You'll not regret it.

Pulsar N250:
This is the 2nd latest addition to the group of 250s.
This is an awesome bike with an awesome engine.
Coming to the reliability aspect of it, we are not very happy.
Please check out this thread- https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...-solution.html (New Bajaj Pulsar N250's engine cuts off while riding | Visited dealership 7 times for solution)
The bike is returning an average of around 35-40kmpl.
It is really good on the highway and in the city. But, before taking any decision please go through the above thread. It is our experience with the bike. Pretty comprehensive.

Gixxer 250:
In my opinion you can give this a miss. The price is not justified. The person who has it is planning to change it now. The decision is nothing to do with the performance. Just that it is not exciting anymore.

But, as I said the N250 was our 2nd latest addition, the latest is the Vstorm 250.
We kind of made fun of the guy who had bought it. But, it has grown on us immensely. It has the performance of a naked with the easy of a longer suspension. Highly impressed. Would recommend you take a test drive of Vstorm.

If you feel I can help you with some more information regarding these since I have access to all of them, please feel free to reach out.

Hope you get one of these home soon!

Cheers,
Shreyas

[NSK123]

Go for the one which has raised handle bar. The upright position with leg little backward will typically offer stress free riding in my opinion.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by ShattereDarknes

But there are a few concerns:
1) Bajaj's reliability - how reliable is this bike going to be? I've heard Bajaj's engines are good only for 1-2 years and they deteriorate quite fast. How true is this?
2) That's pretty much it actually.

This thing about Bajaj and reliability is a thing of past (early 2000's). I owned a 2013 Pulsar 180 for 10 years. I decided to sell it this year (due to extremely low usage nowadays), but I loved it a lot so sold it in family for little lower rate. Now I get to ride it whenever I visit my brother in law. In 10 years apart from regular service the bike never needed any attention from service folks.

[RD150]

Stay away from Bajaj if you are spending 2.5 big ones. Their service centers are only capable of changing oil and replacing damaged parts. I think you should wait for the next gen FZ25. Or else the Honda CB300f with the ongoing discounts is a good choice.

[ShattereDarknes]

Originally Posted by shreyashuilgol

Apache RTR:
It is one of the best choices. It gives a mileage of around 40kmpl and has sufficient features. Now let's answer your questions:
1). How bad is the pillion seat?
Not very bad. Not too comfortable for longer rides though. If the pillion is around 60-70kgs then it should not be an issue for city runs.
2). Being a 200cc, will I outgrow it too soon? Will it cry on the highway?
If you are a relaxed rider then there is no problem with outgrowing it. On the lighter side, the biker in us will outgrow even a 650 after a couple of months. Before we had better 400-650cc either new or second hand bikes in the group we used to do 500km odd rides on these 200-250s and RTR 200 never had issues keeping up with the 250s or even RE 350s.
3) How good is TVS reliability?
As such there is not a very big issue with reliability. We have changed the engine oil to a Motul 10w30 4T and it has made the bike very smooth.
4) Are the features really useful? Are they good enough to tip the decision in this bikes favour?
To answer your 2nd question first, for me they should not. Backing up that statement by saying that in our case we stopped using the features after the first 3-4 months.

Brother you deserve an award. Thank you so much for going through the pain of writing all that, I really appreciate it. I mean, wow. This is the kind of reply I joined TeamBHP for. So both apache and FZ are really good, that's good to know. And yes I am giving the gixxer a miss because of vibration issues as well. The N250 as well seems to have some random QC issues.

So I rented an Apache and rode it around for quite a while, and it's a joy to ride in the city atleast. The gears are super smooth, clutch is very light and when you push it, the sound is just music to the ears. It has really good power throughout the rev range. The FZ is more comfortable, also has a great sound, in my opinion atleast. It also looks slightly better, but it has meh colour options. It also has a very punchy engine, and that mid range is just a joy, with the tradeoff being top end performance. When I made the post, I was leaning toward the FZ, but now I'm confused between both the bikes. I like both of them. I'll need to drive my friend's FZ once more to really make the decision.

But thanks a lot for this reply man. Appreciate it

P.S. How is the Apache for some who is 5'9", or 174cm? I didn't feel it to be cramped, but many people say if you're above 5'7", it will feel cramped?

Originally Posted by RD150

Stay away from Bajaj if you are spending 2.5 big ones. Their service centers are only capable of changing oil and replacing damaged parts. I think you should wait for the next gen FZ25. Or else the Honda CB300f with the ongoing discounts is a good choice.

Yep will skip the Bajaj. The CB300F's suspension is too stiff, and I don't think the parts will be easily available. But the next gen FZ, that could be a more complete bike. But then when will it release? Or will it release at all?

[Unicorn202]

Originally Posted by ShattereDarknes

Brother you deserve an award.

I own a CB300F ... have ridden it for 600 KM on smooth tarmac as well as broken roads. I would say the suspension is neither too stiff nor too soft, it is manageable on bad roads too.
Rear monoshock comes with 5 levels of adjustability; by default, it is set to 2 with 1 being the softest and 5 being the most stiff setting. So we can always set it to level 1 to get more comfort.

Note from Support: Quote trimmed - please quote relevant sections of posts only. Typos fixed. Please don't...type...like...this.

[Fastdriver]

The FZ25 can be the right choice. It is spacious, handles well, reliable, comfortable, practical, cheap to buy for a 250 and offers the best fuel average. The headlight is also a working one(BS6). It lacks the 6th gear and instrumentation also leaves a lot to be desired though.

[swap_saraf]

I have owned a Pulsar & Discover for 18 & 16 years which still refuse to die even after getting serviced at local SVC. So, I ignore the reliability comments

Gixxer 250 is the best of the lot though underrated due to it's price and after sales SVC. After much thoughts, I am planning on the unique SF 250. The same motor is on the Vstorm too.

P250 is a very well built product though it lacks 6th gear and it is not NS. I have a factory service center near my place so no question about SVC.

If you need just for city commuting then the FZ25. It is very smooth Yamaha with a great road presence!

I would skip RTR immediately cause it is just a 200cc bike, looks small, less performance compared to the 250s - Gixxer 250 and P250.

If you can wait there will be Karizma 210!

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by Fastdriver

The FZ25 can be the right choice. It is spacious, handles well, reliable, comfortable, practical, cheap to buy for a 250 and offers the best fuel average. The headlight is also a working one(BS6). It lacks the 6th gear and instrumentation also leaves a lot to be desired though.

As an owner of the older FZ 25, fantastic bike. Seconded. Go ahead without a second thought.

[shancz]

I would say the RTR 200 would work best for your requirements with the FZ25 coming in close second. The XPulse 200T could be a wildcard entry only since you mentioned Bangalore roads.

I used to live in Bangalore with my RTR180 bought and serviced at Bharath TVS Jayanagar. My experience has been excellent with them and so with other ASCs in Pune and Ranchi. But like others have mentioned the experience can vary across ASCs.

In terms of reliability of TVS, in our circle, we have one 12+ year RTR180, one 13+ year Star City, one 5+ year XL100 who have performed exceptionally well. A 3-4 year ownership of another RTR 180 was no different either which made way for a 390 Duke.
So reliability I can vouch for my own experience but no direct experience with the RTR 200, but considering TVS it shouldn't be any different.

On the features, although riding modes don't make much sense on a 20bhp bike but it's a good option to play with.
The adjustable suspension front and rear, although preload only is a very good option to realise how much your life can become easier with a pillion by just adjusting you preload. Most bikes have preload adjustable rear suspension which most riders ignore. Even the TVS Jupiters and iQube have a simplified version of preload adjustable rear suspension which can be used by hand rather than a wrench.
I suggest you also take a test ride with solo and pillion with both the settings to feel the difference upfront.

Good luck for your purchase and future rides.

[Fastdriver]

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

As an owner of the older FZ 25, fantastic bike. Seconded. Go ahead without a second thought.

I had been an owner of the FZ25 Moto GP Edition BS4 from 24th March 2020 to 31st March 2021. It was stolen/lifted on the (intervening) night of 31/03/21 (and 01/04/21). After checking other bikes like Apache 200 4V, Highness 350, Hornet 2.0 and Gixxer 250/SF 250, I again purchased the BS6 version of FZ25 Moto GP Edition (as soon as it was available) on 03/09/2021 as it made more sense then and makes more sense even now for my kind of riding. It's simply practical.

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by Fastdriver

I had been an owner of the FZ25 Moto GP Edition BS4 from 24th March 2020 to 31st March 2021. It was stolen/lifted on the (intervening) night of 31/03/21 (and 01/04/21). After checking other bikes like Apache 200 4V, Highness 350, Hornet 2.0 and Gixxer 250/SF 250, I again purchased the BS6 version of FZ25 Moto GP Edition (as soon as it was available) on 03/09/2021 as it made more sense then and makes more sense even now for my kind of riding. It's simply practical.

Agreed on chill nature of the ride. My brother bought it in 2018 as a replacement for a 2013 Thunderbird 500 because he wanted something that was better in the city and occasional highway rides. It's just an excellent naked bike, and IMO one of the most relaxed and maintenance-free bikes out there.

[windiesel]

Originally Posted by Boringrider

Suspension is also great, especially those springs under the seat. They do make a noticeable difference. .

Those springs are gone in the new J series Classic! You can still buy them as an accessory, but they are only aesthetic, not functional at all.

[ShattereDarknes]

Hey all. Thanks for the help. I bought an Apache rtr 200 in the end. It's a lovely machine, still breaking it in though. It feels a bit rough at about 5k RPM on 1st 2nd and 3rd gears. Haven't tested it at 4th or 5th. Is this normal?

I also got a free TVS Dot Helmet with it. Need to get a better helmet though. I was thinking about getting the LS2 storm.

As for the bike, it's too early to review it. I've clocked in about 175 kms in the 5 days I've had this bike :P. Will post a review soon. But the bike doesn't feel as punchy or rev happy as the one I rented.

[shreyashuilgol]

Originally Posted by ShattereDarknes

I bought an Apache RTR 200 in the end.

First off! Congratulations for your purchase!!

The performance will surely improve as the bike opens up. Keep extending the rev band as and when you keep clocking more and more kilometers. As tempting as it might be, driving the bike with a lot of discipline in the break in period is very important.

Hope you have a lots of memories with it!
Enjoy your new ride!