[paragsachania]

I am all for bigger capacity motorbikes on expressways. Why discount them when we have slow moving Tata Aces and Dosts hogging the fast lane on an expressway.

What I am not for - They cannot swarm all the lanes like honeybees like the way we experience on weekend mornings. They pass you with extreme speeds from the smallest of gaps trying to impress god knows who!

[tharian]

My thoughts, especially in regards to Aug 1st beginning ban on the Blore-Mysore expressway for two wheelers, three wheelers and tractors.

This seems to be a knee-jerk reaction by the Govt to reduce the fatalities which has been increasing month on month since the expressway was open for traffic.
Two wheelers as I understand were banned because of the chances of the rider getting injured fatally due to speeding. Three wheelers and tractors because of their slow speeds and hence cause for an accident.

What we need is sensitization on lane discipline and general use of a high speed expressway. And that is a long way away in our country. A bike that can do 80 kmph can use the expressway, provided there is lane discipline. But there are no speed limits for each lane which makes it risky for a slow bike to travel on this road. There are loaded trucks that do 60 kmph on the fast lane, which is a more dangerous situation as a car with multiple passengers in it can ram into from behind, injuring or killing all.

In regards to filtering the two wheelers that can enter an expressway, it is difficult to do so. As an example, a 350cc Bullet from a previous era may not hit the speed limit or lower speed limit of an expressway. But a Honda 350cc Highness can do that. Even a 500cc Bullet from the previous era may not be able to do a 100. So deciding on engine capacity is going to be difficult.

Hence, the need for a minimum and maximum speed limit and lane discipline to go with it and the same should hold good for all vehicles entering an expressway which can be monitored by cameras along the way.

[am1m]

As a concept it makes sense- the risk is with slower moving vehicles, be it cars, bikes, or three-wheelers. Not something as random as "bigger bike owners are better riders/more disciplined" (which is certainly not true- especially considering the big groups of weekend riders around Bangalore!) But if you are going to make it a law, then you'll have to think about a lot of things- who defines larger capacity, what is the cc cut-off? Will the cops need to check the RC book to confirm? What about this bike, that model, etc.

Practically, since it's a minority, no one is really going to have much sympathy for big bike owners, and the authorities are unlikely to take note of such demands.

Banning all bikes is a short-cut to solving the real problem- the lack of enforcement of traffic rules and safe driving/riding habits.

Alternatively, this seems like the most sensible suggestion:

Originally Posted by lobojames9

In my opinion, a good practice would be to collect tolls from bikes as well. I think the collection of a toll itself will be a deterrent for many two-wheeler users from opting for the highway.

[tanbeamer]

Voted Yes

If allowing bikes on the expressway on the basis of their cubic capacity is concerned, something as useless as a Classic 350 (which takes ages to reach 100) will also be entering the expressway.

And then there are bikers in groups who hog the entire road and don't let the traffic behind them pass. I'd not want to be doing a Delhi-Mumbai run on the new expressway getting stuck behind such hooligans and then be seething about the entire them.

And then are YouTube vloggers with their big bikes who create havoc by doing 300 kmph runs.

They are free to use the old highways, we have plenty of them. But please leave the expressways to us car owners.

[lazy]

Allowing bigger capacity bike while banning smaller capacity bikes is an elitist / classist decision.

While it is questionable whether banning 2w on certain roads itself is legal given everyone pays taxes and pays tolls, it is definitely (in my opinion) a blatantly classist move to allow basis engine capacity bikes, given that engine capacity is directly proportional to the bike's cost.

What next, reserved car parking in airports and malls near the entrances for cars with 6 cylinder engines or scissor doors or 300+ bhp or 400+ nm or ....?

cheers
lazy

[srh]

Being an owner of big bikes and a responsible driver, I obviously voted 'No'. Just the way you don't ban 4 wheelers for some errant law breaking 4W drivers, there is no reason to ban 'capable' 2 wheeler for some errant law breaking 2W riders.

[lobojames9]

Originally Posted by tanbeamer

Voted Yes

If allowing bikes on the expressway on the basis of their cubic capacity is concerned, something as useless as a Classic 350 (which takes ages to reach 100) will also be entering the expressway.

And then there are bikers in groups who hog the entire road and don't let the traffic behind them pass. I'd not want to be doing a Delhi-Mumbai run on the new expressway getting stuck behind such hooligans and then be seething about the entire them.

And then are YouTube vloggers with their big bikes who create havoc by doing 300 kmph runs.

They are free to use the old highways, we have plenty of them. But please leave the expressways to us car owners.

Let me be clear, I did vote 'yes' as there are a lot of implementation roadblocks that will be faced. I have also mentioned the dilemmas that I have in my mind with this whole thing.

But as someone who rides regularly on the highways, I would tend to differ from this view. To the first point, if cubic capacity limits are introduced on cars as well, then this holds true there as well. Just like the Classic 350 takes a long time (about 17secs) to reach a 100, so does a 2500cc Force Gurkha (more than 20 secs).

Coming to bikers in groups hogging the road, I guess there have been bad experiences. As someone who rides in only small groups, we tend to stay to one lane and not hinder traffic flow. I cannot comment further on that. When it comes to youtube vloggers - there are guys in cars doing highway speed runs - is that safer?

I think the point I am trying to make is, there are both car and bike users who are a nuisance on the highway. The issue may not really be with the mode of transport, but just basic highway manners.

[SaurAswale]

Originally Posted by aviator1101

So, this post is like an appeal to the appropriate authority through this esteemed forum that rather than imposing a blanket ban on all bikes from entering the highways and expressways, if the above mentioned points and suggestions may be given a thought and motorcycles above a particular engine capacity (say 350cc) be allowed on Highways/Expressways across the country.

I admit I have less knowledge than other members here but I think motorcycles should be allowed on expressways.
IMO There should not be any restriction based on engine capacity. There are lots of 3500cc bikes which struggles to obtain obtain highest legal speed, while we have KTM 200s and 250s, Suzuki 250s and even R15 with it's little 155cc engine that can cruise at 110kmph comfortably.
Yes there should be restriction but we need to find out better way of filtering.

Originally Posted by tanbeamer

Voted Yes
And then are YouTube vloggers with their big bikes who create havoc by doing 300 kmph runs.

They are free to use the old highways, we have plenty of them. But please leave the expressways to us car owners.

Sorry, I disagree. I can not understand why the people doing 300kmph on their superbikes will not do the same thing on the same road with their cars???

[aviator1101]

Originally Posted by Mystic

It is challenging technically and legally to differentiate which is 250 cc cc bike and which is a 400 cc bike.

Sir, I read your post and respect your views too. Legally the entire ban is questionable. Technically, where is the challenge? If the authorities while collecting road tax can differentiate between a 350cc and above bike and charge 3% more GST, why can't the privileges be allocated accordingly. (I've chosen 350cc category not without a reason)

[Full_Minchingu]

I Voted, YES.

It was hard for me to say YES, but as a matter of fact we are not ready for this yet. You can find cases of high-end bikers who ride without proper discipline. So, these kind of indiscipline bikers take a long time to understand and follow the rules of proper riding.
I am not saying all car drivers follow discipline and rules, there are many exceptions here as well, but the argument over here is mainly on 2-wheelers.

As outlined by OP, there are already plenty of good reasons for allowing higher capacity bikes. However, It would be next to impossible to keep track of this, and if that does happen, then it would only last a few months, after which everyone would have free access.

Hence, it is better to start off with one common rule. No 2-wheelers on Express way.

Regards,
-Badri

[davelok]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Voted Yes.
For now, the ‘few’ (meaning responsible enthusiasts), must suffer because of the misdemeanours of the ‘many’ (meaning the unaware and irresponsible multitudes of road users.)
Sorry. But thats the plain truth.

This is absolutely true. Remember that motorcycles are inherently unstable, requiring a greater amount of skill to ride them in challenging circumstances.

Add to that irresponsible driving behaviour from motorists, commercial drivers, and bike riders themselves, apart from stray cattle, dogs, and pedestrians, and you have a potent recipe for disaster on our high speed roads.

Most drivers and riders do not even have knowledge of good driving habits, defensive driving, lane discipline, or even what sort of highway behaviour is patently illegal or unsafe. If you have driven on rural roads over the years, you would have noticed how there has been an explosion in two-wheeler ownership in rural areas, spilling out on the highways.

A couple of decades ago, people in villages used to plan their travel carefully and sparingly, according to the schedule of public transport available to them. Now any time they feel like it, everybody just hops on to the long pillion of the dependable commuter and goes for long rides without much care for other vehicles.

We aren't even able to manage 100cc bikes properly, so advocating a multi-tier licensing system for large capacity two-wheelers is a far stretch. It also does not address the risk from other vehicles or inveterate interlopers.

Apart from this, there is no objective way to categorise what constitutes a large bike and what is too small for the expressway. Once implemented, any such exemption would face slippery slope activism. There is no correct way to privilege a rich bike rider over a poorer one. This would be like giving priority access to a Mercedes over a Maruti.

Again, there are some existing cases that show us why this would be a bad idea.

The Mumbai-Pune expressway has a section in the ghats where two-wheelers from Lonavla/Khandala are permitted to use it. If you have driven there, you would know how accident-prone the road becomes immediately. Again, it is extremely difficult to drive in heavy rains or in fog around Lonavla/Khandala. Imagine how risky it would make driving on the expressway with visibility of barely a few metres, with two-wheelers milling around you.

The Amdavad-Vadodara Expressway is a four-lane road. Trucks habitually drive in the fast lane and try to overtake each other at a 1-2 kmph speed difference. Driving on that road is already frustrating with obstructions up front and bad drivers giving you scares by swerving around from your blind spots or tailgating. Now imagine adding a few big bikes to it.

This is the reason why we have access-controlled expressways, which also do not allow tractors, three-wheelers, or ATVs. On the other hand, there are several good national highways where bikers can drive fast for long stretches.

I think that gradually, more roads will get upgraded to such good highways and *hopefully* better driving sense will also emerge.

Till that time, enjoy riding your expensive bikes on alternative routes. Not all roads are bad.

[GTO]

Voted Yes.

- More for the bikers themselves! The primary reason I don't own a motorcycle is the safety part (or rather, the lack of). I think it'll be outright dangerous for any motorcycle to be on the same road where every other car is doing 100 - 120 kmph. Let's agree that the average speed is lower on non-expressway roads.

- This is impossible to implement. Do we expect police to check the cubic capacity of every motorcycle and ascertain which bikes are allowed & which aren't?

- Political disaster! Image of favouritism and elitism.

- Last but not the least, when I am cruising in my car @ 120 kmph, I don't want a biker in the fast lane @ 50 kmph. Higher capacity doesn't mean better riding skills or higher speeds. I am a bit more cautious around bikers than cars because if I crash into a biker, the odds of serious injury / fatality are 50X more for the opposite party (as compared to hitting another car).

[Kkumar]

Bikers should not be allowed.
The issue is not the engine capacity of the bikes but the mental capacity of the person riding the bike which cannot be measured. In a car with airbags et al even in case of an accident there is a better survival chance however that’s not the case with a biker. In an express way with majority of the vehicles plying at high speed the probability of such scenarios will also be higher. Hence it’s not recommended unless the government decides to have a dedicated 2-wheelers only lane in express ways.

[Mystic]

Originally Posted by aviator1101

Sir, I read your post and respect your views too. Legally the entire ban is questionable. Technically, where is the challenge? If the authorities while collecting road tax can differentiate between a 350cc and above bike and charge 3% more GST, why can't the privileges be allocated accordingly. (I've chosen 350cc category not without a reason)

I understand you especially when you came up with the number 350 which all of us can relate from India’s perspective. It is all about BHP and not CC. It will be debatable especially when implementing the rule on the ground. Who has the authority to decide GST by CC? How will the toll guy give a receipt in the absence of a FASTag just by looking at your bike? Irrespective of CC, if a law says anybody can get a FASTag for their 2 wheeler if they pay a heavy amount, some responsible 2 wheeler riders with full gear ( fully aware of the risks) who wants to use express ways may opt for it and others who cannot afford may be out of it.

I am not sure if this is relevant in this thread and i will tell of a real incident that happened in USA with respect to road manners. It is applicable to both 2 wheelers riders and 4 wheeler drivers.One guy on a super bike is changing lanes dangerously risking his life for no reason and creating nuisance. One driver in a car took out his gun and put his hand outside with the gun facing down to the road. The 2 wheeler rider disappeared in the next exit. Due to such incidents of unruly riders risking their lives ( most of fatalities are 2 wheeler riders), there is a blanket ban of 2 wheelers. Police cannot be there everywhere and one cannot buy guns and carry it in their car to keep a check on unruly riders.

[DicKy]

Before the thread turns into a cager VS crotch rocket fight.

Let us forget what is done in the Western world. They have a far different automobiles:two wheelers ratio. And due to their demographics and zoning laws, seldom would you find the freeways dotted with settlements along its course. Not to say, better sense to not take a moped on an intercity trip.

Our point of reference should be places that have similar automobiles:two wheelers ratio as us. Sometimes places that have even more two wheelers:automobiles than us. If you look at South east Asia, East Asia and Africa, vast majority of the places restrict two wheelers from expressways, heck even highways. So it isn't some unfair classist unjust thing happening in India alone.

Then it comes to actual implementation of law. And we know that even with rules, two wheelers will continue to slip onto the expressways if given a chance. Barricades or medians are meant to be broken so that the locals can slip their two wheelers through. This is a country where one can ride a battered Bajaj M80 in a figure of '8' and be eligible to ride a Hayabusa the next day. Less said about the number of uninsured vehicles in India and the share of two wheelers among them. So yes, in our country where sunfilms are banned, old cars can be banned by NGT whims, why not ban two wheelers from expressways. I don't see any 350+cc motorcyclists complaining why they are using the highways toll free, when they are able to pay the tolls and don't want any freebies.

In an ideal world, Yes. Motorcycles that are above 350cc and able to sustain 80+km/h can be allowed on expressways after paying toll.

But in the Indian scenario, No. Let there be a blanket ban on motorcycles/three wheelers/tractors of any kind for some years till it becomes the norm. Rules can always be changed, right.