[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by Funny

IMO, the pricing is not as aggressive as the Speed 400's pricing, especially if I consider the lack of 10K introductory discount on 400X. The price difference between S400 and 400X is about 30K. Looking at the 400X website, I am not very clear about the standard accessories that are included within the current 3.63L ex-showroom pricing. What are the additions that justify the 30K delta? Let's see the major differences:

S400 vs 400X:
Front Alloys: 17in vs 19in
Tyres: Wider Road tyres (F:110/70, R:150/60) vs Narrower AT knobby tyres (F:100/90, R:140/80)
Suspension Travel: 140mm front, 130mm rear vs 150mm both
Front Disc: 300mm vs 320mm
Seat Height: 790mm vs 835mm
Weight: 176kgs vs 185kgs
Standard accessories: Bar-end mirrors, Single piece seat, Single pipe exhaust, ABS sump guard vs Regular mirrors, Quilted split seats, Twin pipe exhaust, Aluminum sump guard (website shows ABS one though), knuckle guards, headlight protector grill, radiator guard
Features: Option to switch off ABS on 400X

I really hope they extend the 10K introductory discount to those who pre-booked the bike during the initial phase.

You've missed out on the different subframe, different and bigger handlebar. But given the differences between bikes based on the same engine and chassis with other stuff different, I'd say this is in the ballpark. Compare the Yezdi Roadster and the Scrambler at the lower end of the spectrum, to the BMW G310R and the G310GS. Or even the Duke 390 and the Adv 390 at the higher end. I don't think it's all that unfair. Plus the shocks are completely different, it isn't exactly a matter of adjusting travel. Bigger brakes are also in that category, it isn't just a matter of bigger discs, a lot of other stuff changes here and there. The different exhaust and the bigger front wheel don't come cheap either, the volume difference between is pretty extensive.

[Proxima]

Unless Triumph is able to sell tons of the 400 twins, I'm sure they will either have to increase their prices or continue to operate on super-thin margins - both of which benefit RE because of their scale.

[antz.bin]

The difference in equipment between the Speed and the Scrambler really doesn't justify the 40k increase in price compared to the initial launch price (+ early bird offer). Can't say it was unexpected though since the price difference in US prices is $600 (~ ₹50k). So, they have actually priced it in India at a discount again.

Someone mentioned the Yezdi Roadster and Scrambler to justify the price hike but if we look closely, the price difference between those 2 is < 10k. 20k difference in this case would have been more apt.

They have priced it too close to the 390 ADV X. That is a much more substantial motorcycle with a lot more space for rider, pillion and luggage compared to the Speed. Scrambler won't be that much larger in dimensions compared to the speed. Very little sense in saving the 15k.

Speed 400 still continues to be the better buy. Glad I didn't wait for the Scrambler. A set of knobbies and a metal bash plate would mean that I would have the best of both worlds for a lot less.

[offroad]

From a broader perspective, Triumph and Bajaj main aim to capture the market share. For this they probably might have priced these at lucrative prices.

Current Triumph (Strategy) - [My assumption only]

1) Get all the attention required
2) Price it low with thin margins
3) Once you get people to taste the flavour, release the sibling.
4) The difference in price is probably to cover up the cost from Speed 400.
5) Give a bare bone bike and sell everything for accessories.

Future

1) My very strong feeling, by end of first quarter is when the prices should automatically increase. Leaving all the folks who wanted to wait and buy in sad state.
2) I do not own a Triumph, but my friends ride the big boyrs from Triump and they always say, Triumph does not give anything for FREE. Owners please do correct me if i am wrong. So all the beautiful looking bikes in the ads, do come with a price .

Bottom line, a company like Triumph would sure have planned to mint money some or the other way. So if the bikes are priced low, then be prepared for the future.

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

Someone mentioned the Yezdi Roadster and Scrambler to justify the price hike but if we look closely, the price difference between those 2 is < 10k. 20k difference in this case would have been more apt.

They have priced it too close to the 390 ADV X. That is a much more substantial motorcycle with a lot more space for rider, pillion and luggage compared to the Speed. Scrambler won't be that much larger in dimensions compared to the speed. Very little sense in saving the 15k.

I don't think the Adv X is a good comparison here, as its engine, chassis, brakes and wheels are of the 390. The rest is all taken off the 250 Adv, which is actually the important electronics. There isn't even switchable ABS. So if you're bent on a KTM at a price, then go right ahead! But if you're getting a better quality bike for 15-20k cheaper, then it's a steal. And the seats are about 25-30% larger than the Speed due to the bigger subframe, wider and a little longer. You could conceivably mod the Speed to be more off-road friendly with knobblies, but the suspension, etc are just not tuned for that. If you want a similar comparison, check out a guy on Instagram called Riccardo Accuia, who's turned a Bonnie T120 into a odd mix between a cafe racer and a scrambler.

Originally Posted by offroad

1) My very strong feeling, by end of first quarter is when the prices should automatically increase. Leaving all the folks who wanted to wait and buy in sad state.
2) I do not own a Triumph, but my friends ride the big boyrs from Triump and they always say, Triumph does not give anything for FREE. Owners please do correct me if i am wrong. So all the beautiful looking bikes in the ads, do come with a price .

Bottom line, a company like Triumph would sure have planned to mint money some or the other way. So if the bikes are priced low, then be prepared for the future.

No man, if they change the prices within six months they will get absolutely trolled by RE. The Himalayan 452 can't be priced much more than the Adv X, and the Scram variant will be very close to this, if not the same price. If they want to stay competitive, they can't change prices at least till February. As to the margin on this, yeah, definitely higher than the Speed 400, but not by a lot. Besides, Triumph's profits are expected to come on the export market. Each bike sold outside and assembled outside brings a bigger profit than one sold here, about 1.5 x more because Triumph assembles the bikes outside for the North American and East Asian markets. The point of these two is not just massive volumes, but also revival on the West.

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[AulusGabinius]

News incoming! The review rides for the Scrambler 400x will take place on Thursday the 12th of October and onwards according to Sagar Sheldekar. I guess we can expect reviews next week!

[mrleopard]

Got a call from Triumph Gurgaon today, that the Scrambler 400x would be available in their showroom in the next 10 days. With the expected launch of the new Himalayan, it would become a really difficult decision.

[pskanp]

Just called JSV Triumph Lucknow which is the upcoming dealership (and the only one in U.P.), the guy told that they will be opening near Diwali next month for sure and then the test rides, sales/service will also start, and before the end of this calendar year they (JSV) will also open up a Triumph dealership in Kanpur. What a relief...

[atluri_rkc]

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

News incoming! The review rides for the Scrambler 400x will take place on Thursday the 12th of October and onwards according to Sagar Sheldekar. I guess we can expect reviews next week!

I believe there's an embargo till 18th October 10AM as Motorbeam mentioned this timing to have their review available to viewing.

[Himanshu809]

As a Speed 400 owner, this Speed 400X just seems unnecessary. I get it, it’s scrambler. But I’ve always found scrambler to be the pseudo compact “SUVs” of the motorcycle world. If I want a bike which can take on tougher terrains why wouldn’t I get a proper ADV like Himalayan or the Duke 390/250 ADV? This segment (the scrambler) seems to me at least in no man’s land; neither here nor there.

The Speed 400’s ample ground clearance and sorted suspension setup is enough to tackle bad roads, and when it comes to no roads, why would you take your bike to no roads unless it’s specifically built to take on random terrain like an Impulse or any other ADV? That borders on abusing your bike and why would you abuse your bike are you a sadist? Jokes apart. I like the paint scheme on the 400X more, especially how they’ve done the stripe on the tank and the Triumph logo in it. Would’ve liked it more on my Speed 400. Honestly a Tiger 400 would be a much more sensible product but I guess they didn’t want to cannibalise on the sales of KTM 390 ADV which comes from the same house.

I hope Triumph sort their dealerships and delivery/customer experiences first. The inept jokers at One Triumph Delhi still can’t tell me when I’ll get the number plates for my bike. Absolute bozos I tell you. No clue to what’s going on.

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by Himanshu809

As a Speed 400 owner, this Speed 400X just seems unnecessary. I get it, it’s scrambler. But I’ve always found scrambler to be the pseudo compact “SUVs” of the motorcycle world. If I want a bike which can take on tougher terrains why wouldn’t I get a proper ADV like Himalayan or the Duke 390/250 ADV? This segment (the scrambler) seems to me at least in no man’s land; neither here nor there.

Technically, scramblers are the precursors of proper ADVs. But today they're more like the compact SUVs, yes, and they do offer the same advantages. A taller seat gives you more view over the traffic, more suspension travel gives you better comfort in general, larger seats, and for people like me who need some legroom, it's a heavensend. The Tiger 400 would be a faired, proper off-roader, and that's great, but how many will actually take those things that far off-road? Scramblers seem like a nice, stripped-back, mild off-roader, not too much fairing, and good in the city, and better for tall people. I look at it like a large-size Woodland shoe; it's a very nice shoe to wear, it's better than a proper leather shoe, and big enough for my large feet.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Himanshu809

But I’ve always found scrambler to be the pseudo compact “SUVs” of the motorcycle world. If I want a bike which can take on tougher terrains why wouldn’t I get a proper...

You've answered your question with the apt comparison. Crossovers are the most popular body type going by car sales now (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...eferences.html (Indian Car Sales for CY 2022 | Interesting charts depicting brand, budget & body style preferences)). I guess bike owners/makers will follow the 4-wheeler trend for 2-wheels too. A bike that "looks" like an ADV but won't necessarily be used like one. Sort of like woodland backpacks and boots in Bangalore- mostly used to trek to coffee shops! But seriously, if the market wants it, the manufacturers will make it.

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

I look at it like a large-size Woodland shoe; it's a very nice shoe to wear, it's better than a proper leather shoe, and big enough for my large feet.

I typed my reply before I saw yours, interesting how we used the same analogy!

[Himanshu809]

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

Technically, scramblers are the precursors of proper ADVs. But today they're more like the compact SUVs, yes, and they do offer the same advantages. A taller seat gives you more view over the traffic, more suspension travel gives you better comfort in general, larger seats, and for people like me who need some legroom, it's a heavensend. The Tiger 400 would be a faired, proper off-roader, and that's great, but how many will actually take those things that far off-road? Scramblers seem like a nice, stripped-back, mild off-roader, not too much fairing, and good in the city, and better for tall people. I look at it like a large-size Woodland shoe; it's a very nice shoe to wear, it's better than a proper leather shoe, and big enough for my large feet.

Well not everyone who owns a Suzuki Hayabusa has ridden it at 300 kmph. I mean I get what you’re saying and you make solid points. Despite the compact “SUVs” being fake SUVs they do sell a lot and crossovers are popular now but the purist in me seems a bit annoyed at middle of the road products than properly segregated product lines. And this goes for both cars and bikes. I mean the Speed is a great great street motorcycle and honestly the squat low sitting and the short wheelbase makes it so so so easy to ride and fun to flick it’s just amazing in the city especially with that creamy suspension it has. And yes even though I believe that sedans are the true OG (and the best IMHO) form of four wheelers the varied quality or lackthereof of our roads make a taller car with more ground clearance the better option any day. I think the ADV segment has a lot better choices than the 400X. Like Mike Ehrmantraut said in Breaking Bad, no half measures.

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by Himanshu809

Well not everyone who owns a Suzuki Hayabusa has ridden it at 300 kmph. I mean I get what you’re saying and you make solid points. Despite the compact “SUVs” being fake SUVs they do sell a lot and crossovers are popular now but the purist in me seems a bit annoyed at middle of the road products than properly segregated product lines. And this goes for both cars and bikes. I mean the Speed is a great great street motorcycle and honestly the squat low sitting and the short wheelbase makes it so so so easy to ride and fun to flick it’s just amazing in the city especially with that creamy suspension it has. And yes even though I believe that sedans are the true OG (and the best IMHO) form of four wheelers the varied quality or lackthereof of our roads make a taller car with more ground clearance the better option any day. I think the ADV segment has a lot better choices than the 400X. Like Mike Ehrmantraut said in Breaking Bad, no half measures.

You're right, not everyone is going to race a supersport, but people are definitely going to look at it differently. With specialist vehicles, the look of the things is definitely going to matter to whoever buys it. A 390 Adv or a Himalayan definitely speaks as to what sort of person bought it, for example, very differently to an R15 owner. Scramblers as a segment don't really stand for anything yet, but I suppose you could call a pseudo-ADV version of a road bike a scrambler, despite the looks. That said, there's definitely a bad way to make one, a la Pulsar 200 AS, Honda CB200X, and so on.

[antz.bin]

To be very fair, both the 390 ADV X and the Scrambler 400x are primarily road-going motorcycles with some rough-road ability. These are bikes with 19 inch front wheels that
help them with an advantage on the rough stuff compared to their 17-inch brethren but don't bog them down too much when it comes to the good roads and these still remain reasonably flickable.

Hardcore ADVs like the Africa Twin, Ducati DesertX, Triumph Tiger 1200 Rally, the OG Himalayan and the humble Xpulse 200X share their 21-inch front wheel size so we know where they get their off-road prowess from (Physics, of course ).

But while the above is true, it is also true that the Honda Hornet 200X, Pulsar AS200, Speed 400, Duke 390 and the Versys 650/1000 are all road biased motorcycles with their 17-inch wheels which the Scrambler 400X is not.

If anything here is a pseudo-SUV like a Brezza, Sonet or Creta, it is the 17-inch pretenders.

The 19-inch wheel will probably give the Scrambler 400x the middle of the road ability offered by something like a Harrier / XUV that tourers might desire.

Dedicated trail riders may be better served by the 21-inch wheel sporting Thar/Wrangler equivalents.

Lets wait 2 more days for the ride reviews to verify how much of what we have been inferring from the spec-sheet is reality.