[tchsvy]

Firstly, Honda played the waiting game, thinking that the 125 cc segment will be the entry level segment and secondly, they wanted to distance themselves from the Hero Splendor, hence they launched Shine 125 instead of a 100 cc bike. On the other hand, Honda took the Splendor's share in urban areas with their Activa, so from a sales point of view, their answer to the Splendor is not Dream 110/CD110/Shine 100, but an Activa.

On the other hand, reliable, smooth, indestructible engines are what people associate Honda with, and the HQ has a big role to play here. IIRC, when HQ plans to build an engine or a bike, they consult all their subsidiaries and whoever is interested in that engine/bike has to pay their share of the R&D costs, if you opt out, you don't get it, which is why there are many bikes that are never launched in India despite the cries of the fans. If a subsidiary wants to launch a particular product and neither the HQ nor any of the other subsidiaries are interested in it, then that particular subsidiary is on its own, here the engines/motorcycles are hit or miss.

Hero is still a Splendor/Passion/HF Deluxe company and it is surprising to me that they are able to sell them in these numbers even in 2023. But all the other players have stepped up their game and brought new products to market, Honda had to wake up like yesterday, but their planning is so meticulous that they end up being the Internet Explorer of the automotive world!

[RD410]

Originally Posted by Sam800

This can also be attributed by poor maintenance by these people.
BUT... The hero hondas of yesteryears who went through similar abuse still stand rock solid today (90s to 2010).
So yes, parts have suffered quality issues but if people took better care of their vehicles, this could be avoided to a good extent

I cannot fault OP here. From Shine to CB350, HMSI products have shown some serious manufacturing defects. Gear slipping, heating, oil leaks, high idle rpm due to faulty auto-choke, defective cylinder kit, etc. So many issues reported on this forum itself. Majority of these vehicles are brand new and meticulously serviced through Honda ASC's, yet their owners are suffering. And Honda is turning a blind eye to all this, denying warranties, harrasing and what not. I've witnessed this first hand when the crank oil seal of my friends Activa 125 bs6 busted at just 10k kms! In his case too Honda washed their hands, denied warranty and they didn't even have the part in stock. It took 2 full months for the bloody oil seal to arrive. That 2 months were sheer agony for my friend because the Activa was his daily driver. Even my 2015 Dio HET came with a faulty auto-decompressor system from the factory. It means that I need to gently kick start it every morning, If I use self start, it will misfire due to exhaust valve not opening on time. None of the media's talk about these issues. If anything they only further glorify Honda. So the customers are left with no choice other than to appeal to consumer courts. HMSI have lost so many consumer court cases already, yet they are not ready to improve their QC.

The Hero Honda's with horizontal 100cc and 125cc engines were so reliable because they were based on the legendary Honda Super Cub. Also the overall quality control of Hero is much better than HMSI. HMSI has greatly benefitted from the goodwill created by Hero Honda/Munjals. But in terms of customer relations, spare parts availability, etc they are not even close to Hero.

[ArTigor]

Well rather then struggling lets say Honda is not selling motorcycles up to full potential.
After the Hero - Honda split we can see two things.
Hero has mastered commuter segment motorcycles & Honda has mastered commuter segment scooters.

Activa is the first choice for scooter segment buyers even today, scooters are dominant in urban areas and urban areas have good presence of Honda touch points.

Rural crowd prefer motorcycles as scooters are not apt for rural roads. Splendor has become synonymous to reliability hence rural crowd trust it blindly. In addition to it Hero has much more rural touch points. In rural areas Honda has a reputation for high service cost. Hero motorcycles services and spares both are cheap and easily available.

Just to put in perspective.
My brother has a 10 year old Splendor which is going good, he also has a Honda Shine which he had bought 7 years ago, last year he had to do a major engine overhaul, don't know exact details what all he replaced, but both vehicles are used for daily farm runs.

[Sam800]

Originally Posted by RD410

. I've witnessed this first hand when the crank oil seal of my friends Activa 125 bs6 busted at just 10k kms! In his case too Honda washed their hands, denied warranty and they didn't even have the part in stock. It took 2 full months for the bloody oil seal to arrive. That 2 months were sheer agony for my friend because the Activa was his daily driver. Even my 2015 Dio HET came with a faulty auto-decompressor system from the factory. It means that I need to gently kick start it every morning, If I use self start, it will misfire due to exhaust valve not opening on time.

Holy cow, I did not know things are bad to this extent. Now i can't recommend honda two wheeler to anyone. Thanks sir and team bhp

[t3rm1n80r]

Originally Posted by pranavshet

Reason 3: High Cost of Service and spare parts.
Pranav.

I'd like to add one more point to 3: Honda not selling parts over the counter. I'd would be most glad to service my motorcycle from a well known FNG than the ASC. That's a risk I'm willing to take with the vehicles warranty.

[hikozaru]

Took a 'long' test ride of a CB300R recently. The entire experience was such a downgrade compared to my first 'short' test ride of the CB300R.

1. No AC in the showroom. Sure, its winter in Bangalore and it is partially my fault for not removing my helmet but I had sweat on my spectacles in the 5 minutes I took to sign the documents for the test ride. Pretty terrible for a BIGwing showroom.
2. The bike was seriously compromised. Either the tyres were woefully underinflated or the handlebar was seriously bent or a combination of both. And its not like I could just inflate the tyres on my test ride as I don't know if the tyres are warm or cold. I know that it certainly didn't help the guy who rode the CB300R just 5min after my 15km test ride.

Any other bike and I can still excuse a bad test ride because I know I can ride a rental or a friend's bike, but it is rare to find Honda big bikes that I can ride, so I think it is super important that dealerships maintain their bikes in top condition which they clearly did not. If Dealers cannot maintain their bikes in proper condition, I cannot fathom how poorly Honda's ASCs will maintain customer bikes.

Just another addition to my previous 'fun bikes' point, the CB300R has rubbish brakes. The brake has such a wooden feel to it, no doubt due to super conservative ABS tuning (found in all japanese bikes according to Michael Neeves from MCN). The stopping distance was also quite terrible and blaming the tyres will only take you so far. As it stands, it is somehow still more expensive than a Speed 400 and worse than that bike in stock form, which is not a good place for Honda to be. Either they should make a better bike for the price point or undercut the Speed 400.

[aneesh2M]

IMO Honda is not at all struggling but they have a different priority for INDIA. They are busy selling scooters so much that they don’t have will and need to market motorcycles and that too bigger motorcycles. Even if we think Honda is struggling, in fact they are happy with what they are doing and that is milking Activa for years.

If you see Honda motorcycles like all Japanese manufactures they are fantastic, super reliable and built to last. But Honda has simple strategy and thinking, why to encourage such a market which you need to babysit with top notch service and premium experience when you can generate same or even more revenue with just selling mass market product.

For that little market presence they launch few big bikes every now and then but with a price tag and selling policy which don’t require them to cater to large audience.

[fastestindian]

The problem with a lot of these Honda bashing threads (or VW/Skoda bashing threads) is they assume the customer is always making rational choices when going out to buy stuff. If only Honda built a xxx or VW built a yyy. I dare say most of their numbers would remain more or less the same if they did do xxx or yyy. Honda CBR300 was primarily bashed for being too expensive, it dropped 75k to its prices and yes it was successful in moving the marginal customer sitting on the borderline but it didn't create a winner. Most buyers are not sitting on the borderline they are so far into the territory of "I'll grow up and buy a Royal Enfield" that despite so many new machines in the market, people will go and pick up an RE without so much so as a test drive.

The long and short of it is that a lot of sales numbers are down to freaks of chance and they get rationalised by us into a coherent story post facto. Indians are risk averse and it is rational for people to today just buy what their neighbour has bought (wisdom of the crowds etc). Something becomes popular and then it hits a tipping point and then it blows up.

Honda, much like RE, is sitting pretty, enjoying the fruits of these freaks of chances, with its scooters, which btw are not even the best or the most reliable ones in the market anymore.

One thing they are doing right is at least continuously testing the market at its edges with bringing in expensive and exclusive CBU bikes to keep the heartbeat going. Who knows when the market turns and starts to want something different.