[Entsurgeon]

Originally Posted by @shimda

To my knowledge E20 is the percentage of petrol to ethanol (20%) whereas RON 95 refers to the octane level.

Spot on.
Although I must add, both these are recommendations of fuel where your vehicle would perform optimally if you stick to them. Slight deviation from either for long term is reported to not cause much problems.
Do they recommend RON95 for this bike? Our standard petrol is RON93=91 octane IIRC. My Euro3 Panigale has 95 RON recommended and its a high strung bike.

[DieselWanderer]

My Test Ride experience was rather disappointing or sad to say! I called up the Jawa Showroom Rajkamal Motors in chennai & they were kind enough to get bike ready for test drive. I always visit the showroom for test drives to get an idea of how good the dealer is since they will be my point of contact till time the warranty is active. I reached on time and the was Bike being clean & ready on to go.

Being in sales myself; I always believe first impression is important and Jawa needs to work on this. The showroom looked tired; unorganised and had poor lighting with bikes just parked like the old cycle rental shops.

I met the sales executive & he was quick to take my details and we then went to the 650 which was parked on the platform outside. He brought it to the road and my ride begins

The Good Bits
1. Started the engine and waited for 45 secs for it to settle. The exhaust note was nice with minimum vibes overall.
2. Slot the gear & the 650 pulls so clean, open throttle and wow! The power delivery was right from get go. The gearing is tall and suitable for highways more. I think for city we need to settle in 2nd or 3rd. Addictive low & mid range.
3. Went for a 20 minute test drive and could feel the heat of the 650, not uncomfortable but was evident on my shin area.
4. The seat was low but overall the ergonomics felt good and comfy.

The Sad Ones

1. The speedo was disconnected, this led to me not knowing what actual speeds I was doing. Had to rely on my gut feeling and this led to me adjusting gear changes for the first 3-4 minutes.
2. The rear brake felt disconnected or rather not working; On gentle taps it felt like no brake and on giving it more pressure the rear brake felt like “i am present sir”
3. My test bike had false neutrals in 2-3 occasions and stalled while coming to a slow stop.
4. The fuel was so low that the bike started jerking when I tried to open the throttle on an open stretch. I stopped called the sales ex and he was clueless, luckily this was close to the showroom and I had to just return back riding slowly on the left most lane, we opened the tank and could barely see any fuel.
5. The digital screen should have been a positive lcd at least. Useless while riding.

Overall I rate the bike 7/10 and would try in a different showroom to see if they have a better vehicle.

[pedrolourenco]

Originally Posted by Omkar

The heart of the matter. 650cc single cylinder, the largest single in India presently if we ignore the Ducati.

a large single cylinder to fill in the void left behind by CL500, but a much better motorcycle than the CL500 in everyway.

Originally Posted by VINBHO333

Pick up with the thump the 650 single makes is outstanding.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

As a former Royal Enfield Continental GT 535 owner, I will admit to having a massive soft corner for big singles and the joy of motorcycling that this dying breed brings to the table. With Royal Enfield smartly moving to the twin cylinder A2 segment (Interceptor / Continental GT / Super Meteor / Shotgun 650), motorcycle enthusiasts didnt really have any solid single cylinder options until the Mahindra-backed Classic Legends (also behind the Yezdi & Jawa motorcycles) came out with the BSA Gold Star 650.

Originally Posted by imtiazindia

Its duel between second largest single verses the largest single.

Originally Posted by navpreet318

You don't come across such large singles anymore.

Originally Posted by rb2399

it's a big single which is amply evident with vibrations at idle that die down as you get going. The engine is really smooth as the bike gathers speed.

Ok, we get it; It's a Single, sorry a Large Single. What's so special about it being a single that there is so much hype about it being a single. There is a reason why manufacturers make multi cylinder bikes. What's the advantage of a single over a twin or triple?

[navpreet318]

Nothing. No advantage at all. Except that it's just a single and that's what matters. It's a very weird scenario you'll find.
It has to with how it touches the child in us. For instance on one side we'll love a Large single on a motorcycle.
But on a car we'll yearn for a large V8. So you see it's nothing to do with mechanical advantage. It's to do with what pulls at the strings of our childish heart.

[tharian]

Originally Posted by pedrolourenco

Ok, we get it; It's a Single, sorry a Large Single. What's so special about it being a single that there is so much hype about it being a single. There is a reason why manufacturers make multi cylinder bikes. What's the advantage of a single over a twin or triple?

You should take it for a spin.

For me, the 650 and that it is a big single didn’t matter, but I wanted to experience the torque on it. I used to ride a 500cc Bullet for many years, the old cast iron one and now a Interceptor 650. The BSA, in the short ride I had, reminded me of the 500. The Interceptor 650 feels very different in terms of its power/ torque delivery. The way the torque is delivered on the BSA is what I actually expected from the Interceptor, which is better now with the FuelX on my bike.

The bike is also surprisingly nimble on the move and easy to handle in traffic although it weighs similar to the Interceptor and the best part is the comfortable riding posture. If this was launched when I bought my Interceptor two years ago, it would have been a tough choice to make between the two.

[tchsvy]

Originally Posted by pedrolourenco

Ok, we get it; It's a Single, sorry a Large Single. What's so special about it being a single that there is so much hype about it being a single. There is a reason why manufacturers make multi cylinder bikes. What's the advantage of a single over a twin or triple?

Large singles have a larger bore and stroke, which means they produce more toque at low revs. This is good for initial acceleration, making it easy to ride in town where you don't have a chance to open the throttle. The multi-cylinder, on the other hand, has to build up a lot of revs before it delivers the torque. It all comes down to usage.

Apart from that, the 'old world charm' is what the reviewers are raving about. All the early bikes were simple singles. This is closer to the retro theme than the twins.

At the end of the day, there will be few things that aren't our cup of tea, but if someone finds small pleasures in them, what's wrong with that!

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by DieselWanderer

The speedo was disconnected, this led to me not knowing what actual speeds I was doing

I wouldn’t be buying a bike from this dealer anytime soon - no integrity. Since the speedometer was disconnected, most likely this bike will be delivered to an unsuspecting customer after being used for test rides.

Thanks for your feedback DieselWanderer.

Cheers

[pedrolourenco]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

Nothing. No advantage at all. Except that it's just a single and that's what matters.

It's this logic I fail to understand. It has no advantage at all. But then you go on to say "It's just a single and that's what matters" which takes me back to my original question.

Originally Posted by tharian

You should take it for a spin.

I will once the demo bike comes to the Goa dealer. Unless they expect people to buy it without a Test Ride, Just because it's a Single

The way the torque is delivered on the BSA is what I expected from the Interceptor, which is better now with the FuelX on my bike.

India always had singles. So everyone thought they were the best till the RD350 came along. There were a few multi-cylinder bikes in between the RD350 and the Interceptor / Continental GT but were out of reach for the common man. So again during this phase, the only option was a Single from RE.

The bike is also surprisingly nimble on the move and easy to handle in traffic although it weighs similar to the Interceptor and the best part is the comfortable riding posture. If this was launched when I bought my Interceptor two years ago, it would have been a tough choice to make between the two.

This has got more to do with the chassis/suspension setup than the engine.

Originally Posted by tchsvy

Large singles have a larger bore and stroke, which means they produce more toque at low revs. This is good for initial acceleration, making it easy to ride in town where you don't have a chance to open the throttle. .

Apart from that, the 'old world charm' is what the reviewers are raving about. All the early bikes were simple singles. This is closer to the retro theme than the twins.

The OG Interceptor, Meteor, Super Meteor and Constellation were all Twins. They all had old-world charm too.

At the end of the day, there will be few things that aren't our cup of tea, but if someone finds small pleasures in them, what's wrong with that!

Nothing wrong with that. I have no problem if people like singles. Just trying to understand why. As for me, I'd take a twin anyway over a single.

[rb2399]

A 450 KMs ride to the western ghats reaffirmed my earlier findings

In addition to whatever I had mentioned, this bike is plain amazing when it comes to munching miles on 4 laned highways.

I could eek out ~ 28 KMPL during this ride which is not bad at all for an engine of this size !

Here are some snaps !

[navpreet318]

Originally Posted by pedrolourenco

It's this logic I fail to understand. I has no advantage at all. But than you go on to say "it's just a single and that's what matters" which takes be back to my original question.


...

And by that logic you should just buy a Bajaj platina and be done with. Reread my comment. I said it has no advantage over a triple or any other engine.

Purchasing a motorcycle for fun riding and going by logic. That's actually the most illogical thing I've heard ever!
This isn't a bike for you. It'll never fit logically. Not even a RE.

Please share what bike you have and what was your logic behind getting it and your logic of choosing it above the competition in it's price bracket.

[Boringrider]

Originally Posted by pedrolourenco

What's so special about it being a single that there is so much hype about it being a single. There is a reason why manufacturers make multi cylinder bikes. What's the advantage of a single over a twin or triple?

Oh boy, there are many! Singles produce low down torque way easier and quicker than a multi-cylinder engine. Singles are economical to build from a manufacturer's POV and less expensive to maintain than multi-cylinder engines from user's POV. Singles also have better FE than multi-cylinder engines. Singles are known as "thumpers" because of the old-school thump and feel they give off. Multi-cylinder engines are generally smoother and creamier feeling. Now, there seems to be a big debate online amongst the general population but it really is not. It all comes down to your own tastes and preferences. Also, there is a misconception that having more than one cylinder is superior to a single. Just as it is superior in some ways, it has its downsides. Now why would someone want a thumper, vibrating engine ? Because some people like their engines to be a living, breathing part of their ride and they like hearing its heart beat. Some like creamy engines and that is also great. To each their own. There really is no inherent logic or anything when it comes to automotive decisions. It's always going to be heart over head. The faster you understand it yourself, the more at peace you will be.

If you go strictly by logic, then apart from Interceptor, this bike produces similar power and torque figures as a Continental GT, Super Meteor and Shotgun.Paying more money for those bikes to get same power outputs doesn't make any financial sense if you see just numbers. Because that's now how it works. Again I'm not saying, those are inherently better or this is better. Body styles do vary, obviously but at the end of the day, it is down to preference.

Edit - Forgot to add, single cylinder engines are also lighter than multi-cylinders. This bike is in hype currently because of its rarity and uniqueness. It's the biggest single cylinder affordable to most people. (Ducati Hypermotard Mono excluded). You'll be surprised at how they have managed to bring so many aspects of riding, just right. From an engine perspective, I have never experienced and will probably never see a single cylinder engine smoother than this.

Originally Posted by Cyborg

I wouldn’t be buying a bike from this dealer anytime soon - no integrity. Since the speedometer was disconnected, most likely this bike will be delivered to an unsuspecting customer after being used for test rides.

Unfortunately, the 2 dealers I went for a TD too had this same issue. One wasn't even RTO approved but they made an exception for me. Contrast that with RE where they had proper registered test ride bikes which were solely in existence for that purpose. I must say RE has won me over in terms of showroom experiences and customer handling. I visited multiple showrooms and the experience was consistently positive and uniform more or less. Classic Legends doesn't even come close. As someone who despised RE and all their fanboys, I can now see despite their flaws, they are quite a well run and professionally managed organisation.

[Darkcloud]

Originally Posted by pedrolourenco

It's this logic I fail to understand. It has no advantage at all. But then you go on to say "It's just a single and that's what matters" which takes me back to my original question.

Not being offensive here but you have posted in another thread that you intend to buy a registration expired 1980 Enfield, which probably has quite a lot of jugaad parts in it and then plan to ride it around town without even registering it (which is illegal)!
This is neither logical nor does it have any advantage, yet you wish to do it. Against the charm of owning that Enfield, logic and everything else stand no chance.

That’s how it’s with motorcycles and it’s the same with the Goldstar. If that big single cylinder tugs at someone’s heart you need no logic, advantage or someone’s opinion to justify it.

As someone on the farther side of 45, and having owned quite a few large single cylinder Enfields in the past, I too have a soft spot for the Goldstar. That big single and retro charm is irresistible.

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

And by that logic you should just buy a Bajaj platina and be done with. Reread my comment. I said it has no advantage over a triple or any other engine.

Honestly a big single does have a lot of advantages over multi cylinder bikes. There are also a lot of disadvantages obviously. We Indians have this very strict way of addressing engines. Multi-cylinder engines = the best fit for any purpose. The number of cylinders and configuration (V, inline, boxer etc) always depended on the usecase, tradition and history of a manufacturer, engineering constraints etc

There is a reason why almost all enduros/mx bikes are single cylinder. Way less mass and moving parts for starters. Then there is the power and torque delivery. There is a good article by Kevin Cameron on why intermittent power pulses generated by a single or a 270 crank twin (compared to the regular 180) allows the rear tyre to gain traction in dirt.

Coming to the BSA, apart from the commonly discussed points like riding feel and torque delivery associated with the singles, there is also the increased flickability you gain with a single. The RE 650 for eg is a heavy old air cooled lump sitting low and wide in the chassis. The BSA on the other hand is a much narrower and lighter single. Both these bikes may only have a 5 KG difference in overall wet weight but the engines are most probably very different in static and rotational mass. A heavier parallel twin's rotational inertia (including the crank and other components) and the resulting gyroscopic effects should resist the directional change of a motorcycle a lot more than the inertia generated by the lighter crank and lesser components in a single. That's probably why the BSA feels more nimble on its feet.

I'm not saying the RE is bad and BSA is good. But there are advantages and disadvantages to both setups, mechanically.

[pedrolourenco]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

And by that logic you should just buy a Bajaj platina and be done with. Reread my comment. I said it has no advantage over a triple or any other engine.

So if you said something, why should I buy a Platina. A guy buying a Platina in fact does have many valid reasons to do so. And don't waste your time asking me to list out those because I won't.

Purchasing a motorcycle for fun riding and going by logic. That's actually the most illogical thing I've heard ever!

Purchasing a motorcycle for fun riding is one of the logical reasons.
Saying the bike is good just because it's a single is illogical.

FYI other's have debunked your "It has no advantage" view with valid reasons.

This isn't a bike for you. It'll never fit logically. Not even a RE.

I know the BSA is not the bike for me. I am not buying it. But I have not told anyone not to buy it or said it is a bad bike.
I have owned RE bikes in the past and currently own one. I bought them for various reasons but "Just because it was/is a single was never my reason.

Please share what bike you have and what was your logic behind getting it and your logic of choosing it above the competition in it's price bracket.

I own a Himalayan 450. The competition was a KTM 390 ADV and maybe a Triumph Scrambler.
My logic was this was the cheapest bike that suited my requirements.

Originally Posted by Boringrider

Oh boy, there are many! Singles produce low down torque way easier and quicker than a multi-cylinder engine. Singles are economical to build from a manufacturer's POV and less expensive to maintain than multi-cylinder engines from user's POV. Singles also have better FE than multi-cylinder engines. Singles are known as "thumpers" because of the old-school thump and feel they give off.

This is the kind of reply I was looking for. For those who got agitated by my post, the above post is a logical answer.

Multi-cylinder engines are generally smoother and creamier feeling. Now, there seems to be a big debate online amongst the general population but it really is not. It all comes down to your own tastes and preferences. Also, there is a misconception that having more than one cylinder is superior to a single. Just as it is superior in some ways, it has its downsides. Now why would someone want a thumper, vibrating engine ? Because some people like their engines to be a living, breathing part of their ride and they like hearing its heart beat. Some like creamy engines and that is also great. To each their own.

Agree with this.

There really is no inherent logic or anything when it comes to automotive decisions. It's always going to be heart over head. The faster you understand it yourself, the more at peace you will be.

You are not wrong but there are many for whom head over heart is the way to go. I feel this is also not wrong.

If you go strictly by logic, then apart from Interceptor, this bike produces similar power and torque figures as a Continental GT, Super Meteor and Shotgun.Paying more money for those bikes to get same power outputs doesn't make any financial sense if you see just numbers. Because that's now how it works. Again I'm not saying, those are inherently better or this is better. Body styles do vary, obviously but at the end of the day, it is down to preference.

True it is always each ones preference. However knowing the reasons for someone else's preference does help in making an informed choice.

I must say RE has won me over in terms of showroom experiences and customer handling. I visited multiple showrooms and the experience was consistently positive and uniform more or less. Classic Legends doesn't even come close. As someone who despised RE and all their fanboys, I can now see despite their flaws, they are quite a well run and professionally managed organisation.

Spot on. The dealerships have come a long way. But still not perfect. I had a bad experience at one dealer and the exact opposite at the other when buying the Himalayan.

Originally Posted by Darkcloud

Not being offensive here but you have posted in another thread that you intend to buy a registration expired 1980 Enfield, which probably has quite a lot of jugaad parts in it and then plan to ride it around town without even registering it (which is illegal)!

Firstly riding it in private property is different from riding it around town.
Secondly I posted that to find out if it illegal to purchase it or not. I have not purchased it. I know it is illegal to ride on public roads and I have no intention of doing that. There is no way I would have posted this on a forum if I ever intended to use it on public roads.

This is neither logical nor does it have any advantage, yet you wish to do it. Against the charm of owning that Enfield, logic and everything else stand no chance.

I'm not buying it just because it's a single. It's an old bike. It may have some non original parts but I still have the extra original parts which I had kept for my old bike.

Originally Posted by b16h22

Honestly a big single does have a lot of advantages over multi cylinder bikes. There are also a lot of disadvantages obviously.

The purpose of my post was exactly to discuss this. Something that you and Boringrider have explained very well by sticking to facts and not rhetoric.

Coming to the BSA, apart from the commonly discussed points like riding feel and torque delivery associated with the singles, there is also the increased flickability you gain with a single. The RE 650 for eg is a heavy old air cooled lump sitting low and wide in the chassis. The BSA on the other hand is a much narrower and lighter single. Both these bikes may only have a 5 KG difference in overall wet weight but the engines are most probably very different in static and rotational mass. A heavier parallel twin's rotational inertia (including the crank and other components) and the resulting gyroscopic effects should resist the directional change of a motorcycle a lot more than the inertia generated by the lighter crank and lesser components in a single. That's probably why the BSA feels more nimble on its feet.

I have ridden the Interceptor. Waiting for Test Rides to start in Goa.

I'm not saying the RE is bad and BSA is good. But there are advantages and disadvantages to both setups, mechanically.

Absolutely.


To end this discussion, a few members have taken the trouble to explain why they feel the BSA Goldstar is a good bike and the advantages the single has. That was what I was looking for.

Thanks and peace.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by rb2399

A 450 KMs ride to the western ghats reaffirmed my earlier findings

The pictures are lovely and glad you're enjoying the 650. Do share the route map of this ride please if you don't mind. It looks really picturesque. Thank you.