Fuel Injection for India bikes?

turbo_v12 · 23rd March 2005, 12:20

Bosch has decided to make low=price fuel-injectors for India bikes. That will definitely do away with the carburators, and I think it will enhance Indian biking tehnology. What do you guys think?

Steeroid · 23rd March 2005, 12:29

At the height of their 2-stroke v/s 4-stroke war with Hero Honda, TVS was known to be working on a fuel-injector for the Shogun, which was subsequently to be used on other bikes in their range.

I wonder whats come of it - their R&D capabilities are the best amongst Indian 2 wheeler manufacturere, but would they be able to pull off this one?

Cheers

Steer

Harrie · 23rd March 2005, 15:33

This means more powerful bikes! I love this.

balenopower · 23rd March 2005, 22:38

the first of the lot comin with fuel injection is yamaha....
tvs and bajaj have signed a contract with delphi.so all the 250 cc bikes comin in from tvs and bajaj expect them to be fuel injected......slurrrrrrrrrp

golem · 24th March 2005, 15:32

These early fuel injection would be very basic. One mod to the bike and you will spend hours trying to figure out what's wrong.
As far as I think it is just going to be a TBI based system with only one sensor.

My injection system in drawing board is almost complete. Let's see who makes it first them or me

Harrie · 24th March 2005, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by golem

My injection system in drawing board is almost complete. Let's see who makes it first them or me

more info please...

what bike are you testing this on? how did you get the sensors? its a pretty complicated thing right? the fuel maps etc etc...

golem · 24th March 2005, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harrie

more info please...

what bike are you testing this on? how did you get the sensors? its a pretty complicated thing right? the fuel maps etc etc...

P150 CL ES. Going to use only one MAP sensor. Still to source parts and a old carb for construction. Based on help and ideas of many people round the net.

Initially may prototype is to start with 555 timer configured it as one-shot instead of a continuous multivibrator. When the
CDI sparks, the 555 timer adds fuel for the next firing, since
it's triggered at the same time.

The injector would be from Maruti Et el.
No EGT, No Pyro

In short it would be a eletronic carb like thing

Regards

topend_hooligan · 24th March 2005, 21:38

U serious golem???? I'll have you make one for my RD too if you suceed with it on your bike.
But seriously man, you need to get atleast some feedback from the exhaust(o2 sensor or Egt) to know whether you really are stoichiometric.

Harrie · 24th March 2005, 22:26

Hey that means your 555 timer will get input from the CDI and instead of the carb injecting fuel, your 555 timer will operate the injector right?

That is pretty simple and should solve the problem. You can go ahead and do it and maybe some time down the lane you can switch over to a micro processor or micr controller.

I used a micro controller in my project. It was a control system for a hybrid power train in a scooter (bajaj saphire)

You will need a mu p or a mu c when you want to add some artificial intelligence to the system like maybe increase the amount of fuel injected when the throttle is opened suddenly, or cut off fuel when the throttle is fully closed etc.,

Sounds interesting. Count me in ok will be glad to be of assistance to you.

golem · 25th March 2005, 10:25

EGT and O2 output is not strict necessary if you need to have simple function.
Also to combine inputs from various source to passive circuit like 555 will be big pain.

Like I said it would be like eletronic carb . I am no mod expert hence I cannot mod my engine head for injector to accomodate (This is how the FI in bikes to be planned by Yam, TVS and Bajaj will be there) I plan to use an salvaged carb (If somebody has it plz donate)

The original plan was to use microcontroller but I plan to use 555 first to get it to idel.

Regards

topend_hooligan · 25th March 2005, 10:33

Hey golem, I've got a RD350 carb - Mikuni roundslide VM28 series with 2t oil injection nozzle.
I'll give it to you for R & D. But I fail to understand why do you need a carb case for FI!?? I mean you need something to mount the injector on or something???

Harrie · 25th March 2005, 14:20

Hmmm... thatz a nice way to get started. But still IMO the mu c should save you a lot labour. Its easy controlling the injector with a mu c than with a 555 timer. Is it not?

Have you calibrated the injector? I mean how much fuel is being injected when you give a pulse for a specified period of time?

Just remembered... one person in our college was trying out a similar stuff for his project. Dunno more about the details though.

golem · 25th March 2005, 15:02

@topend_hooligan
Thanx for the offer but I don’t own a RD and will probably never own. How ever if you have p150 carb (not the CV one) please PM me offline
The current board design does not uses any sensor to measure amount of air flow and hence will be calibrated as per the butterfly opening plus carb will be used to mount the injector

@Harrie
The current challenge is not to get the accurate Pulse but to make the HW assembly and to get the bike to ideal. Going 555 way is el cheapo and I am tight on my budget. Using this method the 555 can be calibrated to send a fixed PWM using a potentiometer. Once this works my concept FI is ready and will immediately switch to mu

Regards
PS: What we are discussing is OT. Are mods ok if this continues this way?

topend_hooligan · 25th March 2005, 21:17

The VM I've got is a slide valve. P150 carb is the cv one man, But its got a butterfly valve. Tell you what, make a small Pipe for the throttle valve and injector mount, I mean get the pipe bored to accuracy and then mount a butterfly valve in it like the p150/180 Bs series carbs. You could easily get spare valves from local mechs. So 1st step you want to make the bike idle properly, I guess that would happen easily once you figure out how much volume of fuel to be injected per intake pulse.

powerslave12r · 26th March 2005, 13:17

Man! You guys just inspired me! And I wish you all the luck golem. Would be nice to see a FI p150

23rd March 2005, 12:20	#1
turbo_v12 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Thane Posts: 457 Thanked: Once View My Garage	Fuel Injection for India bikes? Bosch has decided to make low=price fuel-injectors for India bikes. That will definitely do away with the carburators, and I think it will enhance Indian biking tehnology. What do you guys think?
	() Thanks

23rd March 2005, 12:29	#2
Steeroid Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: N.A Posts: 7,046 Thanked: 2,751 Times	At the height of their 2-stroke v/s 4-stroke war with Hero Honda, TVS was known to be working on a fuel-injector for the Shogun, which was subsequently to be used on other bikes in their range. I wonder whats come of it - their R&D capabilities are the best amongst Indian 2 wheeler manufacturere, but would they be able to pull off this one? Cheers Steer
	() Thanks

23rd March 2005, 15:33	#3
Harrie BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: KA 03, KL 12, TN 38 Posts: 701 Thanked: 36 Times View My Garage	This means more powerful bikes! I love this.
	() Thanks

23rd March 2005, 22:38	#4
balenopower BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 957 Thanked: 465 Times View My Garage	the first of the lot comin with fuel injection is yamaha.... tvs and bajaj have signed a contract with delphi.so all the 250 cc bikes comin in from tvs and bajaj expect them to be fuel injected......slurrrrrrrrrp
	() Thanks

24th March 2005, 15:32	#5
golem Newbie Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: mumbai Posts: 9 Thanked: 0 Times	These early fuel injection would be very basic. One mod to the bike and you will spend hours trying to figure out what's wrong. As far as I think it is just going to be a TBI based system with only one sensor. My injection system in drawing board is almost complete. Let's see who makes it first them or me
	() Thanks

24th March 2005, 21:38	#8
topend_hooligan BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Thane Posts: 65 Thanked: 2 Times	U serious golem???? I'll have you make one for my RD too if you suceed with it on your bike. But seriously man, you need to get atleast some feedback from the exhaust(o2 sensor or Egt) to know whether you really are stoichiometric.
	() Thanks

24th March 2005, 22:26	#9
Harrie BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: KA 03, KL 12, TN 38 Posts: 701 Thanked: 36 Times View My Garage	Hey that means your 555 timer will get input from the CDI and instead of the carb injecting fuel, your 555 timer will operate the injector right? That is pretty simple and should solve the problem. You can go ahead and do it and maybe some time down the lane you can switch over to a micro processor or micr controller. I used a micro controller in my project. It was a control system for a hybrid power train in a scooter (bajaj saphire) You will need a mu p or a mu c when you want to add some artificial intelligence to the system like maybe increase the amount of fuel injected when the throttle is opened suddenly, or cut off fuel when the throttle is fully closed etc., Sounds interesting. Count me in ok will be glad to be of assistance to you.
	() Thanks

25th March 2005, 10:25	#10
golem Newbie Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: mumbai Posts: 9 Thanked: 0 Times	EGT and O2 output is not strict necessary if you need to have simple function. Also to combine inputs from various source to passive circuit like 555 will be big pain. Like I said it would be like eletronic carb . I am no mod expert hence I cannot mod my engine head for injector to accomodate (This is how the FI in bikes to be planned by Yam, TVS and Bajaj will be there) I plan to use an salvaged carb (If somebody has it plz donate) The original plan was to use microcontroller but I plan to use 555 first to get it to idel. Regards
	() Thanks

25th March 2005, 10:33	#11
topend_hooligan BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Thane Posts: 65 Thanked: 2 Times	Hey golem, I've got a RD350 carb - Mikuni roundslide VM28 series with 2t oil injection nozzle. I'll give it to you for R & D. But I fail to understand why do you need a carb case for FI!?? I mean you need something to mount the injector on or something???
	() Thanks

25th March 2005, 14:20	#12
Harrie BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: KA 03, KL 12, TN 38 Posts: 701 Thanked: 36 Times View My Garage	Hmmm... thatz a nice way to get started. But still IMO the mu c should save you a lot labour. Its easy controlling the injector with a mu c than with a 555 timer. Is it not? Have you calibrated the injector? I mean how much fuel is being injected when you give a pulse for a specified period of time? Just remembered... one person in our college was trying out a similar stuff for his project. Dunno more about the details though.
	() Thanks

25th March 2005, 15:02	#13
golem Newbie Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: mumbai Posts: 9 Thanked: 0 Times	@topend_hooligan Thanx for the offer but I don’t own a RD and will probably never own. How ever if you have p150 carb (not the CV one) please PM me offline The current board design does not uses any sensor to measure amount of air flow and hence will be calibrated as per the butterfly opening plus carb will be used to mount the injector @Harrie The current challenge is not to get the accurate Pulse but to make the HW assembly and to get the bike to ideal. Going 555 way is el cheapo and I am tight on my budget. Using this method the 555 can be calibrated to send a fixed PWM using a potentiometer. Once this works my concept FI is ready and will immediately switch to mu Regards PS: What we are discussing is OT. Are mods ok if this continues this way?
	() Thanks

25th March 2005, 21:17	#14
topend_hooligan BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Thane Posts: 65 Thanked: 2 Times	The VM I've got is a slide valve. P150 carb is the cv one man, But its got a butterfly valve. Tell you what, make a small Pipe for the throttle valve and injector mount, I mean get the pipe bored to accuracy and then mount a butterfly valve in it like the p150/180 Bs series carbs. You could easily get spare valves from local mechs. So 1st step you want to make the bike idle properly, I guess that would happen easily once you figure out how much volume of fuel to be injected per intake pulse.
	() Thanks

26th March 2005, 13:17	#15
powerslave12r BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 102 Thanked: Once	Man! You guys just inspired me! And I wish you all the luck golem. Would be nice to see a FI p150
	() Thanks