[praful]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

Bullet and reliable???
Are you sure?

I was attracted to Thunderbird but was put off by the reviews (from friends and mouthshut, etc). Piston and cylinder head breakdown, oil leakage, and what not...

I am not a bullet owner and neither am I bullet hater. But you really really have to fall in love with a Bull to own one.IMHO, it does need a wee little more caring than other bikes out there. But if you fall in love with one, it won't seem like much!

With regards to wider seats, yes it is pretty much possible, infact you can even change the seat's foam to make it softer and more comfy.

With regards to changing the Avy seat, keep in mind that even changing the seats will not make it a comfy bike to ride in traffic!

[anandpadhye]

Well....in Avenger, only the pillion seat is the problem (too narrow).
The driver's seat is supremely comfortable. And I can comfortably manage Avy in traffic (tried it to make sure) except for the "left foot dance to find the neutral" :-)

Anyways, first I would try to get a wider seat made for my Fiero - to find out if this work can be done flawlessly or not...

Where in Pune can I get wider seats (of the shelf or made to order)???

[cruiserman]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

Well....in Avenger, only the pillion seat is the problem (too narrow).
The driver's seat is supremely comfortable. And I can comfortably manage Avy in traffic (tried it to make sure) except for the "left foot dance to find the neutral" :-)

Anyways, first I would try to get a wider seat made for my Fiero - to find out if this work can be done flawlessly or not...

Where in Pune can I get wider seats (of the shelf or made to order)???

Hi Anand,

I had an avenger 180 for two years, sold it, now am riding a friends 200 while he is overseas- and with his knowledge i did the following modifications:

Modified the seats at Pawar seat corner in Nana peth. You have to tell them to put in two inches of 40 density foam over the original foam.

Changed the stock shocks to gas filled shocks. These can be purchased from Kevate spares down bhavani peth (tel: 9325010273). The shocks are of Endurance company. go for the medium (smaller) size. (I also bought a thunderbird handle from him which I fit on the avenger.)

The mechanic will have to grind down very slightly the bottom edge of the shocks to get them to slot in properly.

The thunderbird handle gives afar superior riding stance, the feeling is of staying on top of the bike in hard braking conditions.

The shocks do raise the centre of gravity by an inch or so, but I find this to be a positive as it makes for a better ride for the pillion. I keep the springs adjusted to medium (my wife is a light 45 kgs), for a heavier person you can use the hardest adjustment.

Ride quality?

Absolutely unbeleivable! I have a sensitive back and had problems on my ealier avenger, but this gives the same comfort as being on a thunderbird sans vibrations.

If you do go for the thunderbird handle (it fits, don't listen to anyone who says it does'nt) all the cables will fit, tho the disk brake cable is a tight fit. You may want to change it, but its not necessary.

You can buy a lockable side bag made by studds from Pawar seat corner.

Hope this helps.

cruiserman

[cruiserman]

Originally Posted by cruiserman

Hi Anand,

I had an avenger 180 for two years, sold it, now am riding a friends 200 while he is overseas- and with his knowledge i did the following modifications:

Modified the seats at Pawar seat corner in Nana peth. You have to tell them to put in two inches of 40 density foam over the original foam.

Changed the stock shocks to gas filled shocks. These can be purchased from Kevate spares down bhavani peth (tel: 9325010273). The shocks are of Endurance company. go for the medium (smaller) size. (I also bought a thunderbird handle from him which I fit on the avenger.)

The mechanic will have to grind down very slightly the bottom edge of the shocks to get them to slot in properly.

The thunderbird handle gives afar superior riding stance, the feeling is of staying on top of the bike in hard braking conditions.

The shocks do raise the centre of gravity by an inch or so, but I find this to be a positive as it makes for a better ride for the pillion. I keep the springs adjusted to medium (my wife is a light 45 kgs), for a heavier person you can use the hardest adjustment.

Ride quality?

Absolutely unbeleivable! I have a sensitive back and had problems on my ealier avenger, but this gives the same comfort as being on a thunderbird sans vibrations.

If you do go for the thunderbird handle (it fits, don't listen to anyone who says it does'nt) all the cables will fit, tho the disk brake cable is a tight fit. You may want to change it, but its not necessary.

You can buy a lockable side bag made by studds from Pawar seat corner.

Hope this helps.

cruiserman

Thought I'd add some pics ...

[VSG12777]

Hey Cruiserman,

I got my blue Avy 200 in April this year and the mods you have listed are nice. Especially the gas filled shocks part. I live in Chennai. Do the gas shocks really make that much of a difference ? I am pretty happy with the existing handlebar on the Avy 200 so that's not an issue. But seating comfort, yes.

Anand,

You can search for the pics of my bike on this forum - just search by my username VSG12777 and you can see what all I have done to my Avy 200. Till date, I would honestly say that I've been quite happy with the bike. I used a 2001 Hero Honda CBZ for 7 years before I sold it and got the Avy 200. The Avy does not come with tubeless tyres but you can always change them. I went for a tubeless rear tyre - Kings (Taiwan) brand imported tubeless 150/80 tyre and this gives me excellent stability and road grip at higher speeds and good ride quality at lower speeds too. I am very happy with that.

The engine - well I guess you would get different views on this from different people. Since you're used to a very smooth engine, you may find this engine not that refined. But I am quite happy with it. I like the sound and the sound of the exhaust note.

Also, it is not really fair to compare the Avenger 200 with Karizma or Pulsar, since this is an entirely different category of bike - it's the only affordable cruiser in India. And for its price and what it offers it is pretty good.

No kick start on the bike doesn't mean problems. There is no kick start on the Pulsar 200 and 220 either. Apart from a defective battery in the beginning which made me push start the bike a few times, I haven't had any trouble. Till today, I've been getting a mileage of around 36 kmpl in the city with occasional high speed riding like 80-90 kmph when I get some good roads etc. On the highways too since I mostly ride at 80-85 kmph, mileage is around the same - 36 to 37 kmpl generally. If I ride between 60 and 80 kmph, then mileage goes up a bit to around 39-40 kmpl. 60 to 80 kmph in 5th gear is the best speed for fuel economy. But seriously since the bike gives me a lot of riding comfort I don't mind the drop of 2-3 kmpl in mileage in exchange for the extra speed.

Pillion seat - yes this is narrow and since it's part of the bike's design I don't think we can do much about it. The Kawasaki Eliminator also comes with the same seat - you can check out the Kawasaki website (USA) where the Eliminator is still sold as an entry level 125cc bike. It looks exactly the same as our Indian Avenger. Only thing is I think the USA version does not have the pillion backrest.

Taking Cruiserman's tips on Avenger mods, I plan to do something about improving the comfort on the seats, both for rider and pillion. I guess the best we can do is to add some foam - 2 inches - to what is already there. This won't cost more than 300-400 bucks max.

For the gas shocks, I have to check it out. Cruiserman, would changing to gas shocks affect the warranty on the bike ?

I also plan to get back to the stock air filter from the K&N. Probably I shall do it next month.

So Anand, overall I am quite a happy and satisfied owner of the Avenger 200 and would highly recommend the bike. It's very good value too.

Karizma/Unicorn are sports and commuter bikes respectively and different from the Avenger. Karizma is 223cc as well and costs upwards of 80k. So do check out the Avenger. The bike is great for relaxed cruising.

I have done a few long trips on the Avy 200 and our bottoms do become sore after around 45 mins to 1 hr of continuous riding. Hopefully this should improve once I do the seat foam and stuff.

Do post back if you have any other questions.

Warm regards,
Venkat

[cruiserman]

Originally Posted by VSG12777

Hey Cruiserman,

I got my blue Avy 200 in April this year and the mods you have listed are nice. Especially the gas filled shocks part. I live in Chennai. Do the gas shocks really make that much of a difference ? I am pretty happy with the existing handlebar on the Avy 200 so that's not an issue. But seating comfort, yes.

Warm regards,
Venkat

Yes Venkat, ride quality on the gas shocks is waaay better. You have to play around with the adjustment tho, to find the right tension for your body weight. Keep in mind the pillion rider and/or luggage.

About the warranty, I do'nt know, but I think it should not affect it as it is not directly related to the engine.
regards
cruiserman

[anandpadhye]

Hi Cruiserman,

Thank you for this important information. This is by far the most helpful post I have read on T-BHP. I will go to Nana Peth ASAP to experiment with my Fiero seat. If they can improve the comfort on my Fiero, I think I can safely buy Avenger and improve the seats even further.

BTW, I see that you have added more and better foam that increased the cushion and height of the seat. But has it also increased the width? Can't make that out clearly from the pictures. I think the most important problem with the pillion seat is the lack of width rather than the height of the foam. I think the Nana Peth guys may be able to handle that as well. Correct?

Regarding gas-filled shock absorbers - I just wish I had got this info 2 weeks earlier - I just replaced my Fiero rear shock absorbers to new OEM ones :-(


Thanks again for the tips and tricks. I really appreciate it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi VSG12777 ,

Thanks for the review and feedback.
Even I am OK with the FE that you mention. I just don't want the engine to be very crude and rough. I hope the 200 is better than the 180 that I tested.

What about the stability, braking and skidding? Fiero skids if I apply the rear brake more than the front (the problem is reduced quite a bit after I upgraded the Fiero rear tyre to 100/90 x 18). Does Avenger skid?

And regarding the ride comfort - soar back after 45 minutes/ 1 hour is exactly the reason I want to get a bike other than my Fiero. I thought Avenger would allow me at least a couple of hours of continuous relaxed riding. This is a big let down...My Unicorn friends always show off the fact that they can do Mumbai-Pune non-stop with no backache while I get a worn out back on my Fiero...so gas-filled shockers a must???

[cruiserman]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

Hi Cruiserman,

Thank you for this important information. This is by far the most helpful post I have read on T-BHP. I will go to Nana Peth ASAP to experiment with my Fiero seat. If they can improve the comfort on my Fiero, I think I can safely buy Avenger and improve the seats even further.

BTW, I see that you have added more and better foam that increased the cushion and height of the seat. But has it also increased the width? Can't make that out clearly from the pictures. I think the most important problem with the pillion seat is the lack of width rather than the height of the foam. I think the Nana Peth guys may be able to handle that as well. Correct?

Regarding gas-filled shock absorbers - I just wish I had got this info 2 weeks earlier - I just replaced my Fiero rear shock absorbers to new OEM ones :-(


Thanks again for the tips and tricks. I really appreciate it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi VSG12777 ,

Thanks for the review and feedback.
Even I am OK with the FE that you mention. I just don't want the engine to be very crude and rough. I hope the 200 is better than the 180 that I tested.

What about the stability, braking and skidding? Fiero skids if I apply the rear brake more than the front (the problem is reduced quite a bit after I upgraded the Fiero rear tyre to 100/90 x 18). Does Avenger skid?

And regarding the ride comfort - soar back after 45 minutes/ 1 hour is exactly the reason I want to get a bike other than my Fiero. I thought Avenger would allow me at least a couple of hours of continuous relaxed riding. This is a big let down...My Unicorn friends always show off the fact that they can do Mumbai-Pune non-stop with no backache while I get a worn out back on my Fiero...so gas-filled shockers a must???

Hi Anand,

regarding the seat, tell the nana peth guys NOT to shave off the sides of the pillion when they add the new foam but rather give it a rounded shape. This increases the width on either side of the pillion.

The gas shock works for the avenger because a) it is a gas shock b) it is a slightly longer stroke than the original stock shocks. This raises the pillion by almost an inch (more if you increase the tension of the springs) which in turn puts more distance between bumps and bottoms!

regards,
cruiserman

[harshavardhan]

Avenger 200 is a very good buy. Another option worth considering is TVS Apache 160 FI.

-Harshavardhan

[VSG12777]

Hi Anand

(1) The FE on the Avy 200 depends largely on your riding style. If you rev up the engine a lot, FE drops and vice versa. This is what I have found by experience. In any case, you should be easily able to get around 35-37 kmpl in city riding, which I think is alright for a 200cc bike. The Pulsar 200 also gives around the same mileage - in fact I have heard from people that it gives even lower mileage. The Avy 200's engine, though basically the same as the Pulsar 200, has been tuned differently, perhaps to suit the characteristics of a cruiser bike. The actual power output on the Avy 200 engine is only around 16.5 BHP while for the Pulsar 200's engine, it is around 17.5 to 18 BHP.

(2) No the engine is not crude as you describe it. You will start liking the engine sound as you ride it more and more. It would take some time for you though, since you are used to engines like the Fiero's. The Avy 200 would definitely feel better than the Avy 180.

(3) Skidding - till date I have not experienced it on my Avy 200. Well, I supposed any bike would skid under panic braking. But, I generally use the front disc more than the rear brake for city traffic. But for high speed highway riding and braking, I use both together for more effective braking, as well as shifting down 1 or 2 gears to let the engine do some engine braking as well. I have tried this for speeds like 90 kmph and I have not experienced skidding till now. As I mentioned earlier, my rear tyre is a really wide one - the widest possible on Avenger without any modifications - 150/80 15-inch. So ride, stability and road grip are excellent.

(4) Mumbai Pune non-stop with no backache -- well Anand I would say this is very subjective. It depends on quite a few factors man. I am sure there would be people who would get backaches doing the same distance on a Unicorn, and people who don't get backaches doing the distance in an Avenger. It depends on the bike, weight of the person, shocks, and most importantly how sensitive your back is. I am most on the forum would agree with me on this. So don't take that show-off stuff to your heart - always take such things with a pinch of salt. They probably know that you get backaches on your Fiero and hence the show-off with such a description. Every bike is different and different people would feel differently while riding the bike. I don't think there is any bike which would suit people of all ages, builds and weights.

I do get a slight back ache after riding for about an hour and I just stop and take a 10 min break to stretch, take some water, walk a bit etc. After this I am fine and can go for another 1 hour. So there are workarounds to everything. In my honest opinion it would be a strain to ride for hours continuously. We need breaks. I am being very frank here. But more than the back ache, our bottoms become sore due to the lack of sufficient cushioning on the seats, which is why I want to improve the seating comfort on the bike.

------

Hi Cruiserman,

Thanks for your info on the gas shocks for Avenger 200.

(1) Well, can you give me the exact specs/brand/details on the gas shocks that you have purchased, how much they cost, what exactly has to be done to fit it to the bike ? I don't have a personal mechanic and I am 1000% sure the Probiking guys would not install the gas shocks. So what are my options ? Would a Castrol Bike Zone do it ?

(2) And what kind of a shop do I visit to look for these gas shocks - I have never bought parts for motorbikes separately and hence the question. Looks like this is the 1st time I am going to do some modifications to my Avy 200.

(3) For the seat modifications too, what you have done seems to be nice and I can see a difference in the sides and top of the pillion seat too. Well, can I get the seat done in Chennai too ? You have mentioned 2 inches of 40 density foam over the original foam. Is it enough if I tell the seat shop to do this ? How much did this cost you in Pune ?

In case I can't get this done here, I am willing to get the seat done in your shop in Pune itself. I can perhaps transfer the money to you. But this is only if all options run out. Would you be willing to help me out on this ?

I shall also check this weekend as to what exactly can be done for the seat in my bike and post back.

Thanks and warm regards,
Venkat

[VSG12777]

Hey Cruiserman

I was just wondering - you had mentioned something regarding the gas shocks adjustment right. Well I am around 95 kg (though I don't look so) and my wife is around 70 kg. So considering this weight, what would you suggest for the shocks adjustment ?

Need to 1st find out whether the shocks you have mentioned are available here. Would any 2 wheeler spare parts shop have it ?

Look forward to hearing from you on everything.

Thanks and warm regards,
Venkat

[cruiserman]

Originally Posted by VSG12777

Hey Cruiserman

I was just wondering - you had mentioned something regarding the gas shocks adjustment right. Well I am around 95 kg (though I don't look so) and my wife is around 70 kg. So considering this weight, what would you suggest for the shocks adjustment ?

Need to 1st find out whether the shocks you have mentioned are available here. Would any 2 wheeler spare parts shop have it ?

Look forward to hearing from you on everything.

Thanks and warm regards,
Venkat

Hi Venkat,

The gas shocks cost 1500 Rs per pair here in pune, of ENDURANCE company and bike stores that stock enfield spares should have them. They come in two sizes, go for the smaller size. The larger one would probably give an even better ride quality, tho it would raise the centre of gravity quite a bit, and you would end up having to get the chain tightened---furthermore it's not certain they would fit. A lot of experimentation goes into getting the right components, it's taken me three years of trial and error to get the ideal mods.

As I mentioned earlier the mechanic would have to grind down the lower edge ( the gas container end) to slot it in. So a mechanic with, or with access to machine working tools would help. Any basic workshop/good mech can do it. Its quite a minor job really.

With pillion, I would recommend the hardest (high tension) setting. But this is best arrived at after some experimentation.

Any seat walla in Chennai should be able to do the seats, cost around 600 Rs.

And No (politely so), I wouldnt be able to help you out with that from pune.cheers:

regards
cruiserman

[VSG12777]

Hi Cruiserman

Saw your message and thanks for the same. Not a problem - I shall try my best to get the seat stuff done in Chennai itself so as to avoid bothering you for the same.

Regarding the Endurance brand gas shocks you have mentioned, I talked to my accessories shop (where I had everything done for my bike) and he says that the one you have fitted is the gas shocks model meant for the Bullet, which needs modification like the grinding you have done. He says instead of this model, I can opt for the Endurance Pulsar gas shocks - standard in P150, 180, 200, 220 it seems - which would be more or less a direct fit in the Avenger.

He differentiates the Pulsar gas shocks and the Bullet gas shocks by the location of the gas chamber - on the Pulsar Endurance shocks, the gas chamber is at the top while for the Buller Endurance shocks, the gas chamber is at the bottom as is also evident from your photos attached in the post.

What is your opinion regarding fitting the Pulsar Endurance gas shocks in the Avenger ? Would this be alright ? If not, in what way is the model you have fitted better than the Pulsar gas shocks ?

The shop guy (who's more like a friend to me now due to a lot of interaction) also says for the stock shocks in my Avenger, he can fit a "height nut" which would work out cheaper - around 250 bucks - and can be installed within 10-15 mins. He says the ride height would increase a bit by doing this and suggests that I try this before spending 1500 bucks on the Endurance gas shocks. Please give me your opinion on this as well.

I have also done a bit of searching on the net for Endurance gas shocks and got this link:

Endurance Group - Products

Click on the 1st image at the top left in the group of thumbnails shown, and I think this is the model you have fitted in the Avenger 200 in your photos. I am however unable to find the Endurance Pulsar gas shocks on the above site.

Look forward to hearing from you on the above at the earliest. Thanks.

Warm regards,
Venkat

[cruiserman]

Originally Posted by VSG12777

Hi Cruiserman

Saw your message and thanks for the same. Not a problem - I shall try my best to get the seat stuff done in Chennai itself so as to avoid bothering you for the same.

Regarding the Endurance brand gas shocks you have mentioned, I talked to my accessories shop (where I had everything done for my bike) and he says that the one you have fitted is the gas shocks model meant for the Bullet, which needs modification like the grinding you have done. He says instead of this model, I can opt for the Endurance Pulsar gas shocks - standard in P150, 180, 200, 220 it seems - which would be more or less a direct fit in the Avenger.

He differentiates the Pulsar gas shocks and the Bullet gas shocks by the location of the gas chamber - on the Pulsar Endurance shocks, the gas chamber is at the top while for the Buller Endurance shocks, the gas chamber is at the bottom as is also evident from your photos attached in the post.

What is your opinion regarding fitting the Pulsar Endurance gas shocks in the Avenger ? Would this be alright ? If not, in what way is the model you have fitted better than the Pulsar gas shocks ?

The shop guy (who's more like a friend to me now due to a lot of interaction) also says for the stock shocks in my Avenger, he can fit a "height nut" which would work out cheaper - around 250 bucks - and can be installed within 10-15 mins. He says the ride height would increase a bit by doing this and suggests that I try this before spending 1500 bucks on the Endurance gas shocks. Please give me your opinion on this as well.

I have also done a bit of searching on the net for Endurance gas shocks and got this link:

Endurance Group - Products

Click on the 1st image at the top left in the group of thumbnails shown, and I think this is the model you have fitted in the Avenger 200 in your photos. I am however unable to find the Endurance Pulsar gas shocks on the above site.

Look forward to hearing from you on the above at the earliest. Thanks.

Warm regards,
Venkat

Hi Venkat,

seems you are well on the way to some experimentation on your own. Well, this is half the fun!

All I will say right now is that necessity is the mother of invention, so i guess you will keep me informed about all the new possibilities you have come up with and their possible degrees of sucess

(About pulsar gas shocks, they seem to be of the long stroke variety, so you are looking at raising the rear section quite a bit. )

regards
cruiserman

[hkrish]

Originally Posted by cruiserman

Thought I'd add some pics ...

Hi Cruiserman,

Thats a cool list accessories added to your avenger...
I have been driving my friends avenger and im planning to buy one for myself..

However i have driven enticer as well and i find the handle-bar comfortable
(Which is similar to thunder bird) a quite well-curved handle-bar in holding position instead of the plain-straight handle bar in the avenger. Since it is quite straight in avenger and not curved in ends, i get a shoulder-pain as my shoulders are not well-RESTED compared to driving in enticer. Anyone faced this problem ?

Since you fitted the thunderbirds (curved) handle bar, i suppose it should be possible to fit enticer handle-bar as well...i suppose ?
Anyone tried it ? Ofcourse i cannot go for enticer (low pick up and sales stopped), and moreover i m in love with this machines look.

Anyone know of some better place in bangalore where they fit the oddest of type of accessories for avenger ?

Also anyone finding the lack of kick-start a major missing feature ?

Cruiserman/Venkat, iam really waiting for your feedbacks..

best regards,
Hari