Karizma Problem

scorpian · 28th March 2009, 13:35

Hello everyone,
I am using a 05 karizma which has clocked 22000kms,this is basically my highway ride and i travel twice a month a distance of roughly 550kms to my hometown and back to the place i stay,besides the daily use of around 50-60kms.

Off late i am facing a peculiar problem which i havent been able to solve so i ask all you fellow members for suggestions,am usuing stock 7ah battery amco make which is in good shape,however when i travel at night and switch on my H.I.D,side light,and depress my brake pedal my h.i.d starts to flicker some what like a flasher,even the horn goes weak.

I showed it to the electrician who told me the recitfier isnt supplying enuf charging current,so i went Hero honda service centre where they replaced the rectifier however both my previous and the new rectifier show exact readings,now the electrician says its the recifier,the nattery guy says the battery,and hero honda says the coil plate is weak which they dont have in stock. all three have their own opinions and in the bargain changing all three is going to be expensive.

So guys what do i do???
Pls give me your suggestions,thanks.

Ricci · 2nd April 2009, 00:32

I certainly think it's the battery and not the alternator or RR at fault. My battery lastes 4 yrs , but when fitted with a 60/55W ( and even more prominent with a 100/90W ) bulb, the horn would be weaker, and if the brake lights were lit , the headlamp would grow dim . While an HID may in theory require 35W as with the OEM wattage bulb, it might not actually be so, and anyway during boost the HID does draw considerably more current .

One thing I couldn't verify was how good the wiring is. I never had wiring problems with the higher wattage bulbs , but I suppose they use thin wires which have more resistance , causing available current to be lower .

Spitfire · 2nd April 2009, 14:01

Swap the rear tailight bulb with a new one and check.

ravi@64bhp · 2nd April 2009, 14:09

Karizma's 7amp battery is not enough to tackle a HID, Horn, tail lights and brake lights at a time. I cannot tell exactly the following thing will solve the problem, but try changing the battery to a 9amp one. BTW, what is the make the HID; is it a chinese model?

rider60 · 2nd April 2009, 14:38

anna ravi, if my bike can handle all that at a time, so can a Zma's, it must be the Rectifier or coil or wiring or battery. the rectifiers on unicorn and Zma go for a bust st their own whimps and fancies, but in the above case every thing needs a test to find out the exact cause, man come on the Zma has DC stock setup!

and Scorpian, you will unfortunaltely have to take the trouble of trouble shooting the hard way mate, check thing by thing, and check all the wires and groundings etc.
all the best man hope you resolve the problem soon.

Sankar · 2nd April 2009, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpian

Off late i am facing a peculiar problem which i havent been able to solve so i ask all you fellow members for suggestions,am usuing stock 7ah battery amco make which is in good shape,however when i travel at night and switch on my H.I.D,side light,and depress my brake pedal my h.i.d starts to flicker some what like a flasher,even the horn goes weak.

It has to be a weak battery. How old is you battery? Swap the Battery with another 7Ah one and ride for couple of days to see if the problem persists. Maybe your friends or a friendly batt dealer can help you with a temporary 7amp batery.

This dimming of lights when rear brake lamp is lit used to happen when i was using a 55/60W headlamp with stock battery. A relay installed into the circuit alleviated this dimming problem to a great extent.

I'm using HID with a 9Ah battery since a month now.

aaggoswami · 2nd April 2009, 21:16

Some days ago, I bought in Osram 55/60W for my Suzuki Zeus. Within days, my battery went dead. I am running with a dead battery now.
Just be sure to get all the electricals right. Get the coil worked out, if required go for rectifier job also.

I know that my battery has nothing to with that bulb as my bike has three coils : one for spark ( ignition ), one for charging the battery, and one for light.
Now whatever I do, its the light coil that has to be affected, but this just happened suddenly ( i.e. the battery died suddenly, within three days of the bulb being installed and used ).

So whatever changes you are making, be sure about coil, rectifier and wiring.
The standard two wheelers now a days have very very poor quality of wiring, just enough for what they are designed for. Anything more you add, you will have some error cropped up somewhere.

EDIT : The self start ( electric start ) Zeus has 12V 9.0kC (2.5 Ah) battery. I dont know the rating of my Zeus that is from earlier generation with disc, spoke and kick. I would love to work on installing bigger battery and working on rectifier and coil. Can someone guide me here ?

scorpian · 2nd April 2009, 21:28

Hi Guys,
Well the issue continues,with cops now harasssing me coz they think i have a flasher in my headlight...

Everytime i see a cop at night i have to switch the light off.

@spitfire
Swapped the bulbs,problem persists...
@ravi
Yes i did go to the battery shop for switching over to a 9amp battery cos i felt the battery cant take the load,however he told me my battery is ok and dosent need to be changed,so i decided to wait,coz buying a new battery,changing the recitfier(expensive at 1900/-),and coil plate..is going to be expensive.The kit is a chinese one,but has been used continously for night rides of 9hrs and holds pretty good in dazzling trucks with high beams.

@Rider60
Checking the wiring is going to be a nightmare man....

@Sankar
Well gotta to get hold of a spare battery..

Now from the litle research tht i did,the battery regulated voltage at 5000rpm should be 14.7-15.5V

and with headlight on at 5000rpm it should be 15.1 +/- 0.4V

However in my case it tops out at 13.3 - 13.6 max....

Service centre hero says sir let us change rectifier,coil plate and battery after that no issue,but am sure tht it has tobe more then this,coz once this items are in my bike if the issue happens to be some stupid wire rubbing itself to orgasm,then am gonna be spending money for no reason at all....

What i need is a spare battery,a rectifier from some bike,after checking with this if the issue holds then have to change coil plate from donor bike,if it still happens then its a wiring fault..am i logical here??

OT ...does anybody knw where to get a slightly aggresive cam for the karizma..

motionfreak · 2nd April 2009, 21:28

typically, HID requires 9-10 AMPs initially and lesser when fully active and u have 7 AHr Battery. So you are already on the limit, when you access multiple elecrticals simultaneously, the battry fails to provide constant currtent to all of the elctricals.
The flickring is really bad for the HID bulb and ballast. Try to install 9Ahr battery, found in Pulsars. Karizma has one of the most powerful chargers in Indian bikes. So don't worry about whether 9Ahr battery can be charged.

rider60 · 3rd April 2009, 01:27

scorpian if you hate that tedious job man the other less headache type solution would be to buy a wiring kit stock from the spares, should cost you 2500.

i am recommending that as the last resort after checking every thing else.

also why dont you get your HID wiring checked once?

EDIT : mate as for the battery, the unicorn, cbzxtreme, hh Hunk and karizma have the same 7AH battery. one of your friends must be having one of these bikes mate just borrow and swap, use it for a couple of days, this way you get to check if its the battery problem, i say this because may smaller battery shops guys wont be able to make out iif one of the cells in the battery has gone bad/imbalanced .

i am just saying rule out one problem at a time one by one and you should arrive at the problem.

do mention the specifications of the this HID you are using and Horn do you happen to have a after market horn?

how was this HID installed do you have any wires sliced or cut while installing this HID???

Man a Aggressive CAM for this beast will cost you double the price of new wiring kit, the rectifier, the coil plates and battery combined!!! and to top it off you will have to go through real time Slogging to find one and import it!!! and it will be worth the price though but are you ready to do all that and a few other mods to bike that will cost extra???

i say forget it, just do the battery thing first , then borrow a rectifier from some one and check HH guys should do this for you, then if its still there, you will have to check the wiring and coils.

i have a gut feeling that HID install must be the culprit, ask the HH guys to check the slicing and dicing done while the HID install may provide you with the solution, and if you have a after market horn set make sure you have a RELAY installed for the same, this can cause these ill effects at times.

akshay4587 · 3rd April 2009, 01:51

Sorry for the late reply
But yes its the battery,i have a Zma with HID and stock 7A battery and that too a new one.
and when using HID,and Horns together this is expected until the battery is new and fully charged.

I am going for a 4th replacement battery(under warranty) in 5 months

.

Sankar · 3rd April 2009, 07:44

Go for a 9Ah battery if you're going in for a replacement. I'm using a 9Ah Amaron to power HID and twin Bosch symphony horns. Used the same batt to power 100/130 bulb before HID.

akshay4587 · 3rd April 2009, 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankar

Go for a 9Ah battery if you're going in for a replacement. I'm using a 9Ah Amaron to power HID and twin Bosch symphony horns. Used the same batt to power 100/130 bulb before HID.

While replacing the battery,I couldnot get to try Amaron 9Ah battery.
but i tried various other brands and none of them fit in the stock cage.
and the margin also was too much to try any mods to fit it in.

Sankar · 3rd April 2009, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by akshay4587

While replacing the battery,I couldnot get to try Amaron 9Ah battery.
but i tried various other brands and none of them fit in the stock cage.
and the margin also was too much to try any mods to fit it in.

You can fix Amaron 9Ah in the stock cage. All i had to do was bent the battery retaining clamp a leettle bit to accommodate the extra girth of the battery.

Look at the photo to see the bent clamp:
Picasa Web Albums - Crank - Karizma Diary

Picasa Web Albums - Crank - Karizma Diary

scorpian · 4th April 2009, 11:17

@Rider60
Hi,i opened up the bike and checked the hid wiring,it was fine the wiring seems to be plug and play with no cutting newhere,except that there is one wiring going directly to battery negative,besides tht everything seemed fine with no exposed wiring.I have the stock horn,no other additions besides that..the cam is really doing rounds in my mind,isnt it possible to make one of right here in india,forgive me iam no expert in this but there should be someone who must be reprofiling cams...i think as a last resort i will just give my bike to sum company and ask them to sort it out and show me thats its fine,after which i will pay them.....

@akshay
Thanks for the info..will swap the battery and check..

@Sankarbhai
Well after i find a logical solution i will upgrade the batt to 9ah..

28th March 2009, 13:35	#1
scorpian BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: GOA Posts: 860 Thanked: 1,310 Times View My Garage	Karizma Problem Hello everyone, I am using a 05 karizma which has clocked 22000kms,this is basically my highway ride and i travel twice a month a distance of roughly 550kms to my hometown and back to the place i stay,besides the daily use of around 50-60kms. Off late i am facing a peculiar problem which i havent been able to solve so i ask all you fellow members for suggestions,am usuing stock 7ah battery amco make which is in good shape,however when i travel at night and switch on my H.I.D,side light,and depress my brake pedal my h.i.d starts to flicker some what like a flasher,even the horn goes weak. I showed it to the electrician who told me the recitfier isnt supplying enuf charging current,so i went Hero honda service centre where they replaced the rectifier however both my previous and the new rectifier show exact readings,now the electrician says its the recifier,the nattery guy says the battery,and hero honda says the coil plate is weak which they dont have in stock. all three have their own opinions and in the bargain changing all three is going to be expensive. So guys what do i do??? Pls give me your suggestions,thanks.
	() Thanks

2nd April 2009, 00:32	#2
Ricci BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Pune Posts: 809 Thanked: 1,179 Times	I certainly think it's the battery and not the alternator or RR at fault. My battery lastes 4 yrs , but when fitted with a 60/55W ( and even more prominent with a 100/90W ) bulb, the horn would be weaker, and if the brake lights were lit , the headlamp would grow dim . While an HID may in theory require 35W as with the OEM wattage bulb, it might not actually be so, and anyway during boost the HID does draw considerably more current . One thing I couldn't verify was how good the wiring is. I never had wiring problems with the higher wattage bulbs , but I suppose they use thin wires which have more resistance , causing available current to be lower .
	() Thanks

2nd April 2009, 14:01	#3
Spitfire BANNED Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka Posts: 3,313 Thanked: 778 Times	Swap the rear tailight bulb with a new one and check.
	() Thanks

2nd April 2009, 14:09	#4
ravi@64bhp BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 602 Thanked: 11 Times	Karizma's 7amp battery is not enough to tackle a HID, Horn, tail lights and brake lights at a time. I cannot tell exactly the following thing will solve the problem, but try changing the battery to a 9amp one. BTW, what is the make the HID; is it a chinese model?
	() Thanks

2nd April 2009, 14:38	#5
rider60 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bhagyanagaram. (A.K.A. Hyderabad) Posts: 1,619 Thanked: 56 Times View My Garage	anna ravi, if my bike can handle all that at a time, so can a Zma's, it must be the Rectifier or coil or wiring or battery. the rectifiers on unicorn and Zma go for a bust st their own whimps and fancies, but in the above case every thing needs a test to find out the exact cause, man come on the Zma has DC stock setup! and Scorpian, you will unfortunaltely have to take the trouble of trouble shooting the hard way mate, check thing by thing, and check all the wires and groundings etc. all the best man hope you resolve the problem soon.
	() Thanks

2nd April 2009, 21:16	#7
aaggoswami Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vadodara Posts: 4,997 Thanked: 3,000 Times	Some days ago, I bought in Osram 55/60W for my Suzuki Zeus. Within days, my battery went dead. I am running with a dead battery now. Just be sure to get all the electricals right. Get the coil worked out, if required go for rectifier job also. I know that my battery has nothing to with that bulb as my bike has three coils : one for spark ( ignition ), one for charging the battery, and one for light. Now whatever I do, its the light coil that has to be affected, but this just happened suddenly ( i.e. the battery died suddenly, within three days of the bulb being installed and used ). So whatever changes you are making, be sure about coil, rectifier and wiring. The standard two wheelers now a days have very very poor quality of wiring, just enough for what they are designed for. Anything more you add, you will have some error cropped up somewhere. EDIT : The self start ( electric start ) Zeus has 12V 9.0kC (2.5 Ah) battery. I dont know the rating of my Zeus that is from earlier generation with disc, spoke and kick. I would love to work on installing bigger battery and working on rectifier and coil. Can someone guide me here ? Last edited by aaggoswami : 2nd April 2009 at 21:21.
	() Thanks

2nd April 2009, 21:28	#8
scorpian BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: GOA Posts: 860 Thanked: 1,310 Times View My Garage	Hi Guys, Well the issue continues,with cops now harasssing me coz they think i have a flasher in my headlight... Everytime i see a cop at night i have to switch the light off. @spitfire Swapped the bulbs,problem persists... @ravi Yes i did go to the battery shop for switching over to a 9amp battery cos i felt the battery cant take the load,however he told me my battery is ok and dosent need to be changed,so i decided to wait,coz buying a new battery,changing the recitfier(expensive at 1900/-),and coil plate..is going to be expensive.The kit is a chinese one,but has been used continously for night rides of 9hrs and holds pretty good in dazzling trucks with high beams. @Rider60 Checking the wiring is going to be a nightmare man.... @Sankar Well gotta to get hold of a spare battery.. Now from the litle research tht i did,the battery regulated voltage at 5000rpm should be 14.7-15.5V and with headlight on at 5000rpm it should be 15.1 +/- 0.4V However in my case it tops out at 13.3 - 13.6 max.... Service centre hero says sir let us change rectifier,coil plate and battery after that no issue,but am sure tht it has tobe more then this,coz once this items are in my bike if the issue happens to be some stupid wire rubbing itself to orgasm,then am gonna be spending money for no reason at all.... What i need is a spare battery,a rectifier from some bike,after checking with this if the issue holds then have to change coil plate from donor bike,if it still happens then its a wiring fault..am i logical here?? OT ...does anybody knw where to get a slightly aggresive cam for the karizma..
	() Thanks

2nd April 2009, 21:28	#9
motionfreak BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Thane Posts: 195 Thanked: 68 Times	typically, HID requires 9-10 AMPs initially and lesser when fully active and u have 7 AHr Battery. So you are already on the limit, when you access multiple elecrticals simultaneously, the battry fails to provide constant currtent to all of the elctricals. The flickring is really bad for the HID bulb and ballast. Try to install 9Ahr battery, found in Pulsars. Karizma has one of the most powerful chargers in Indian bikes. So don't worry about whether 9Ahr battery can be charged.
	() Thanks

3rd April 2009, 01:27	#10
rider60 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bhagyanagaram. (A.K.A. Hyderabad) Posts: 1,619 Thanked: 56 Times View My Garage	scorpian if you hate that tedious job man the other less headache type solution would be to buy a wiring kit stock from the spares, should cost you 2500. i am recommending that as the last resort after checking every thing else. also why dont you get your HID wiring checked once? EDIT : mate as for the battery, the unicorn, cbzxtreme, hh Hunk and karizma have the same 7AH battery. one of your friends must be having one of these bikes mate just borrow and swap, use it for a couple of days, this way you get to check if its the battery problem, i say this because may smaller battery shops guys wont be able to make out iif one of the cells in the battery has gone bad/imbalanced . i am just saying rule out one problem at a time one by one and you should arrive at the problem. do mention the specifications of the this HID you are using and Horn do you happen to have a after market horn? how was this HID installed do you have any wires sliced or cut while installing this HID??? Man a Aggressive CAM for this beast will cost you double the price of new wiring kit, the rectifier, the coil plates and battery combined!!! and to top it off you will have to go through real time Slogging to find one and import it!!! and it will be worth the price though but are you ready to do all that and a few other mods to bike that will cost extra??? i say forget it, just do the battery thing first , then borrow a rectifier from some one and check HH guys should do this for you, then if its still there, you will have to check the wiring and coils. i have a gut feeling that HID install must be the culprit, ask the HH guys to check the slicing and dicing done while the HID install may provide you with the solution, and if you have a after market horn set make sure you have a RELAY installed for the same, this can cause these ill effects at times. Last edited by rider60 : 3rd April 2009 at 01:43.
	() Thanks

3rd April 2009, 01:51	#11
akshay4587 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chandigarh/Mohali/Ambala Cantt Posts: 4,157 Thanked: 4,722 Times View My Garage	Sorry for the late reply But yes its the battery,i have a Zma with HID and stock 7A battery and that too a new one. and when using HID,and Horns together this is expected until the battery is new and fully charged. I am going for a 4th replacement battery(under warranty) in 5 months.
	() Thanks

3rd April 2009, 07:44	#12
Sankar Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Location Posts: 5,780 Thanked: 9,253 Times	Go for a 9Ah battery if you're going in for a replacement. I'm using a 9Ah Amaron to power HID and twin Bosch symphony horns. Used the same batt to power 100/130 bulb before HID.
	() Thanks

4th April 2009, 11:17	#15
scorpian BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: GOA Posts: 860 Thanked: 1,310 Times View My Garage	@Rider60 Hi,i opened up the bike and checked the hid wiring,it was fine the wiring seems to be plug and play with no cutting newhere,except that there is one wiring going directly to battery negative,besides tht everything seemed fine with no exposed wiring.I have the stock horn,no other additions besides that..the cam is really doing rounds in my mind,isnt it possible to make one of right here in india,forgive me iam no expert in this but there should be someone who must be reprofiling cams...i think as a last resort i will just give my bike to sum company and ask them to sort it out and show me thats its fine,after which i will pay them..... @akshay Thanks for the info..will swap the battery and check.. @Sankarbhai Well after i find a logical solution i will upgrade the batt to 9ah..
	() Thanks