[anurag47]

Found this pic of the original 1951 classic... looks almost like the C3/5 !!

[desideep]

Originally Posted by adrian

@ Classic86 : Kickstarting a bullet, be it new UCE or old CI is a technique that is to be achieved by practice. As a person kickstarting the UCE machine all day I would like to give my two cents.
1.Give a slow push kick till the amps are set right.
2.Get the kicker to a 45 degree angle and one full swing kick with the throttle
closed.
3. As soon as the mill starts to roll, gently give throttle.
4.Turn on the fuel tap only after the engine fires.
Keep the fuel tap open before the engine fires and give the throttle while kicking and you are in for the leg exercise schedule. The overflow raises its ugly head and you will have to pump the excess fuel away by kicking with the fuel tap closed till the machine starts !
Regards Adrian

great way to start the bullet be it UCE or what ever. but i am sorry could be just with my Bullet"s" i have never had no problems with them and i have rarely kept the fuel on off position.

[adrian]

Originally Posted by desideep

great way to start the bullet be it UCE or what ever. but i am sorry could be just with my Bullet"s" i have never had no problems with them and i have rarely kept the fuel on off position.

Hi friend, do you supect that some thing in my machine is not set right that it gives overflows ?
Regards Adrian

[nasirkaka]

Hey Randhawa,

The positive results from the new plug sounds exciting. Let me try and locate it first then will ask doubts about how to install it.

[bradhey]

@ Randhawa: So in a nutshell, you suggest me to live with a notchy gear shifting, rather than going for a rebuild, as long as it is not serious........! Can engine rebuilds bring more pain as most workshops may not be equipped correctly with the right know how and more so the required spares..........???

[hexanerax]

Hi,
Interesting post from Randhawa. I have been using a 'Bosch Platinum Fusion' Four electrode plug for over a year now. Never had the missing , poor cold start and fouling issues; so for anyone willing to try , these plugs are a good choice.( check out my post on this forum on page 22 , may 25 2010). Fouling is a common problem if the mix is rich , the engine is running in a low load low throttle opening condition( Most city runs fall in this category ). A hard run with larger throttle openings and good heat buildup in the combustion chamber will help burn off some of the deposits. Most of the time , a plug check will not reveal the mixture or combustion characteristics of a loaded engine at high revs, instead you will see the deposits and combustion quality at the engine speed that the bike last ran at before you turned it off, generally idle. A technique called a plug chop is better indicative and is done by running the bike on an empty road ( use a highway on Sunday) and at a certain speed in top gear ( 70 Kph in 5th for e.g. ) pull in the clutch fully in gear , cut the engine with the kill switch and coast to a halt ( check your rear view mirror first ) take a short break while the engine cools then remove and inspect the plug. I am willing to bet that it will look vastly different from a routine idle blackened plug check.
One interesting idea involves water being injected into a running engine through the air intake. The theory is that steam will react with carbon to form carbon monoxide that is ejected through the exhaust. I have tried this both on My Lightning 535 and recently on the Classic 500 , using a bottle atomizer ( hair dressers type) to deliver the water on the L535 and my Bosch Aquatek hi pressure washer with the nozzle set to fine mist on the classic 500. A lot of soot was blown out of the exhaust but i have no clue about the carbon inside the chamber since i did not open up the head after. I do not have any concrete evidence that this works or that it is perfectly safe but i have fairly good experience and thought I could share this info for what it is worth. Check out the theory and stories on the links below.

Water Cylinder Decarbonizing... Should I? - Bob Is The Oil Guy

Water Cylinder Decarbonizing... Should I? - Automotive Forums .com Car Chat

[RCruiser]

Hiya...everyone! New guy on this Thread, generally to teambhp, and to India as well. Although I did read nearly the whole thread, so that has to count for something, right!?

Just ordered a C5 which is slated for around an October delivery I guess, so I'm reasearching, and planning.

Regarding the comment about Water Injection; in short, yes it works, and very well indeed. Safe, yup, as it's been in useage since 'at least' WWII when it was commonly used in airplane engines, and for a number of good reasons. I'm betting wikipedia has a bunch of good information on the subject.

I have an '02 VW Passat back in the states that I've 'hot-rodded'. It's got the 1.8 Turbo Petrol motor in it which is a good platform for some nice gains. I won't bother you with all of the details, but I gained nearly 50 HP with a few mods, one of them being Water/Methonal Injection into the Air Intake System. This is quite common now in Diesel applications, less so in Petrol, but serves all of these engines well by both cooling the hot intake air (from the Turbo), and in the case of 'Methonal' in Petrol motors, increases the Octane Rating substantially, which allows for either a better Tune with more Timing Advance, or the use of a lesser octane grade/rating of fuel used. While performing these functions this method of introducing a fine Mist into the air stream also cleans the top end with Excellent results. In the end, it's all good. In fact I'd like to get one of the systems available in the US for my Diesel Car here, and then a Pete's, or other, 'Box'.

I should start a school here for home mechanics! We've got so many motorheads back in the states...heck I rebuilt my first engine in my home garage/carport when I was 15! Just a part of life for bunches of guys back in that world, not earning money, but just saving money, or as a Hobby. So for instance, on my '04 KTM 950 Adventure I've ripped into that Numerous times, as they have some 'known niggles' as well. Another BIG reason to DIY is the FACT that you cannot Trust another mechanic, even in the states. Let's face it, there ain't much air between you and that roadway that you're traveling down at 130 kph; do you honestly want to put your life into someone elses hands!?

Honestly guys, these machines are really simple, and once you've gone into the 'black hole of the Unknown', you gain confidence, and with the confidence, become proficent. Just keep wrenching, and buy the best tools that you can afford which are available. Help each other out like you're doing here, have wrenching clinics/clubs in the various regions where you can pool your tools and talent, and you'll be amazed at how quickly you'll be tearing into things like the front forks, carburation, or transmissions!

Blessings,

Robert in Bangalore
(PS. Both of the vehicles mentioned above are going to be 4 Sale in Arizona, are in Excellent/Low Mileage Shape, so if you know of anyone in the states that need a cool/good vehicle, pls. contact me!)

[hexanerax]

Originally Posted by RCruiser

Hiya...everyone! New guy on this Thread, generally to teambhp, and to India as well. Although I did read nearly the whole thread, so that has to count for something, right!?

Just ordered a C5 which is slated for around an October delivery I guess, so I'm reasearching, and planning.

Regarding the comment about Water Injection; in short, yes it works, and very well indeed. Safe, yup, as it's been in useage since 'at least' WWII when it was commonly used in airplane engines, and for a number of good reasons. I'm betting wikipedia has a bunch of good information on the subject.

I have an '02 VW Passat back in the states that I've 'hot-rodded'. It's got the 1.8 Turbo Petrol motor in it which is a good platform for some nice gains. I won't bother you with all of the details, but I gained nearly 50 HP with a few mods, one of them being Water/Methonal Injection into the Air Intake System. This is quite common now in Diesel applications, less so in Petrol, but serves all of these engines well by both cooling the hot intake air (from the Turbo), and in the case of 'Methonal' in Petrol motors, increases the Octane Rating substantially, which allows for either a better Tune with more Timing Advance, or the use of a lesser octane grade/rating of fuel used. While performing these functions this method of introducing a fine Mist into the air stream also cleans the top end with Excellent results. In the end, it's all good. In fact I'd like to get one of the systems available in the US for my Diesel Car here, and then a Pete's, or other, 'Box'.

I should start a school here for home mechanics! We've got so many motorheads back in the states...heck I rebuilt my first engine in my home garage/carport when I was 15! Just a part of life for bunches of guys back in that world, not earning money, but just saving money, or as a Hobby. So for instance, on my '04 KTM 950 Adventure I've ripped into that Numerous times, as they have some 'known niggles' as well. Another BIG reason to DIY is the FACT that you cannot Trust another mechanic, even in the states. Let's face it, there ain't much air between you and that roadway that you're traveling down at 130 kph; do you honestly want to put your life into someone elses hands!?

Honestly guys, these machines are really simple, and once you've gone into the 'black hole of the Unknown', you gain confidence, and with the confidence, become proficent. Just keep wrenching, and buy the best tools that you can afford which are available. Help each other out like you're doing here, have wrenching clinics/clubs in the various regions where you can pool your tools and talent, and you'll be amazed at how quickly you'll be tearing into things like the front forks, carburation, or transmissions!

Blessings,

Robert in Bangalore
(PS. Both of the vehicles mentioned above are going to be 4 Sale in Arizona, are in Excellent/Low Mileage Shape, so if you know of anyone in the states that need a cool/good vehicle, pls. contact me!)

Robert,
Nice to hear from you. Fully endorse your views on self maintenance but one word of caution is due here, do not bite off more than you can chew. Modern automobiles have some pretty complex stuff in them and messing around with critical systems without a complete understanding can put your and other people's safety at risk. A suitable toolkit to do complete repairs and modifications on bikes and cars would cost a bomb and probably be out of the range of most Sunday Mechanics ( My tool collection over 18 years has cost me more than my C5 did and i don't have all the tools i need to do all sorts of repairs). The middle path to this issue is to learn as much as possible so you can understand better what the mechanic is doing or mis-doing and step in where required. Getting grease out from under the fingernails and the oil stains out of the overall may be a price that is more than many would care to pay for this. More an issue of attitude and aptitude and an automobile owner should be the best judge of his commitment and ability to be a 'home mechanic'.
On another point , The water injection i referred to was not a permanent fixture that you refer to but a temporary procedure to decarb the combustion chamber during a long interval service. A Water injection system , installed as a permanent fixture to improve and control the combustion is an entirely different concept and has to be designed properly since water + a variety of noxious gases = Acid. Running that sort of a system permanently may be bad( corrosion , Hydrolock etc ) for an engine and lubricant system designed for conventional fuel air mixes.
Regards
Naren

[ricky_1605]

Guys, i have noticed a tuck tuck noise from the clutch. It is definitely not from the main chain because i stalled the bike and rotated the rear wheel and it was not there. It can be noticed while riding slow, tell me what is it and how it can be repaired?
P.S. - I have a 2002 RE Thunderbird and not a C5.

[RCruiser]

Hey Naren!

Pretty tough on the 'new guy' I think, as you were, as I read it anyway, quite critical of everything that I had to offer.

It's a big world out there Naren, and vehicle maintanence is hardly Rocket Science, so making statements like

Modern automobiles have some pretty complex stuff in them and messing around with critical systems without a complete understanding can put your and other people's safety at risk.

... is a bit over the top I think. This kind of thinking lends itself well to the 'status quo', does not encourage divergent thinking, but instead sounds a lot like 'fear mongering' to my ears.

The members on this forum deserve better than this, are very capable of Learning Many Things, and by the very nature of them putting up with hundreds of posts to figure out what needs to be learned, is a testament to their tenacity, ability, and willingness to learn. People look up to Randhawa, and rightly so, because he has 'been there, done that', but it was only his persistance and continual mucking around with his bike that gave him these precious insights, of which we are all benafactors. Now he is continually answering the same questions over and over, which is not a delightful task for him, because he knows that most of us could conquer this mountain if we'd just Start to Climb it! Am I correct Randhawa? Wouldn't it be better if we were all teachers with that which we now understood, rather than always leaning on a guru?

My intention in writing the first post was merely to be a cheerleader, and to encourage people to venture into the 'mysteries' of mechanics, which are no mystery at all once you've done it.

BTW, you have No understanding of Water Injection, so why do you bother commenting on something that is obviously out of your current League?

Sorry to sound harsh, but I don't like to back away from confrontation, and felt that you were out of line in your 'fatherly, and condensending tone'. If I've misread your comments, please forgive me, as I really am not here for self promotion, but rather to enrich others on this board. If you'd seen the many posts that I've contributed to on Advrider.com, or Passatworld, you'd come to understand my background, and to appreciate that I've writen more than a few tutorials on these matters here.

Shalom, Peace & Love,
Robert

Sorry for the poor quality, but my other pics of various projects are on a different HDD elsewhere, and I had this available. Just an afternoon project... don't recall what I was doing here.



Yellowstone Park, USA Only did 2500 miles (4000km) on this trip. Last summer I did 11,200km's on this bike in 7 weeks. Luckily that I took the time to learn a few basics about the bike, and to carry a few tools (btw, you can completely rebuild a 'complex' bike like this with surprisingly few tools which I take on these ventures)... as I was Miles from nowhere in mountains such as these between Montana & Idaho when I sprang a major oil leak in a campground. If I can get to my other 'puter I'll post a pic...


Re-valving, along with new/heavier springs for my WP Suspension. Seemed Real Daunting to me before I tackled it, and this is a project even some seasoned hobbists refer to as the 'black arts'! In reality though, you follow some instructions, use a little common sense, and at the end of the day it's 'no big deal'. Now I too have 'been there done that' and would dive right back into this service if I had enough information on the RE's to shed the needed light onto the procedure.

[RCruiser]

Guys,

Stricktly off topic, but can 'we' put our front plate number on the Front Fender, like the ones that you see out of the UK, or on the Military Versions? I imagine that those kit's are available here, but I'm wondering if this is legal, or frowned upon...

TIA,

Robert

[hexanerax]

Robert,
Quite an art to take offense where none was on offer and to read a personal bias into a general comment. 'Been there and done that' but personally how many people would like to have their engine torn down twice , bore kit changed , crank rebuilt and all of that? Randhawa has a passion for technical details and is willing to spare the time for this as am I. My post was intended as a general cautionary comment of what home mechanics may have to face and not a comment on your own technical skills or abilities. I am sure you are fully capable of doing all the maintenance on your vehicles yourself and your tutorials will be a valuable guide to anyone inclined to try out some ideas. As for your posts on other forums , I haven't gone through them yet just as i am sure you haven't gone through all of my posts on all auto related forums. My statement - 'More an issue of attitude and aptitude and an automobile owner should be the best judge of his commitment and ability to be a 'home mechanic'.' surely allows any reader of this post to come to his own conclusion and indulge in this to whatever degree he wants. If that is to be construed as fear mongering , so be it and i stand condemned. As for water injection , I stand by my post and would refer you to the links i provided to a forum where Engine decarbonizing through water injection ( temporary ) has been discussed. No need to get personal when there is a difference of opinion. As you rightly put it , I have been there and done that ( on my bike ) and posted it for what it was worth.
Suffice to say that there was no condescension implied or intended in my post and i would like to offer an apology to you if you felt that there was.
Regards
Naren

[Randhawa]

@Bradhey- If I say live with the problem and later once your warranty runs out while things get worse then you will always have this in your mind why you did not opted for re-built.

I would seriously suggest get all the gear shifter related parts, check it out yourself all the parts when they arrive. Ask the mechanics at the workshop who is more competent then others to carry out the strip down. Make sure you are there too at least for the time when they get to the gears. Inspect it yourself. Designate a day for the job and request for service Engineer to be present at the time.

So if you can do all the above then go for it. I don't think you are kind of guy who can live with it.

@Naren- I would never even go into the engine with water in any form. Because its a whole different mine field which I don' know where to even start with. Although this has been used quite successfully all over the world. A team-bhp member has got it installed on his BMW M3 too. Hydrolock is the most scary side effect of it. There are far more ways to safely de-carbonize and I will stick to that for now.

Bosch Platinum Plus is actually meant for vehicles from 1955 - 1995, probably only for carburettors. Thats the reason I guess for the instruction to install it. I never needed to go deep into the plugs so never bothered much. This plug is resister equipped so may be thats why there is a procedure whereas the plug you mentioned is for vehicles from 2000+.

@Robert- Welcome aboard. Over here the scene is quite different, not many people have the time to get their hands dirty. Spurious parts is a major problem along with not so competent mechanics. There are far more competent petrol heads in India then USA. Just compare the population figures LOL. But the problem lies in the society and financial needs, education structure and so on. Over there the life is far less complicated for unfortunate ones but here its a different world. Here is a small niche market for quality work because people don't want to pay much, hence you get what you pay for.

There are plenty of mechanics who are illiterate but far more competent then engineers, who can diagnose problems with just their ears but they have to feed their family and if they spend the whole day servicing only couple of vehicles considering the owners who wont give a penny over a dollar then they suffer. Because there is always someone who is ready to do it for less and people will go for less.

Naren is not being tough on you but he is saying about the truth down here simply because there are plenty of people who have no technical common sense but still want to do stuff to their vehicle and a simple screwdriver in their hands is a weapon of mass destruction. You should see the no of trucks with bald tyres or even cars with hardly any tread on their tyres and still owners would say the tyres would last 5-10k.

Here people will wear a helmet only because they don't want to get fined and some who feel suffocated with the thought of wearing seat belts and drive around with high beam when there is sufficient light to even drive with the light off.

I really don't think Naren directed his statement at you personally but he said that in general. So please don't feel offended, it's all in the family.

Well going OT so I will leave it here but in a nutshell what I am saying is when you are back, you should meet few tuners in Bangalore and see for yourself the real picture and how much motoring scene has changed and its getting better but yes I do agree that people need to be more bold and should be encouraged to do some elbow grease DIY stuff.


Well Bravo on going through the whole thread hey! You are surely a petrol head who has understood what sometimes I go through. I always answer to queries as I feel half baked information has far more serious consequences then anything else plus I personally want people to get more comfortable and competent in DIY. That leaves less chance of frustration and people trying to fool you. Plus the satisfaction you get is priceless!!

No you can not put the no plates on the front mudguard as it's illegal but you can put the no plate on only if you have a RE bullet older then 1977. Although people still get away with it.

Why don't you bring along your KTM to India? Looks very well cared and loved bike. Dealing with the forks is a ghastly affair for me too, don't know why. I feel uncomfortable in doing anything on a vehicle when I don't have the right tools. I wish I could afford a complete set of Snapon and dream of a complete chest box by Snapon in my garage. Oh well, some day I will get it.

@Ricky- did you got the 500 clutch plates installed? Ask Naren with anything CI/AVL, he's the man to get help from.

@Adrian- There is a possibility your carburettor is not set right or the throttle cable on TPS is not adjusted properly.

[RCruiser]

Thanks for the clarification Naren. Still think that you're missing the spirit of what I'm about, but that's ok.


Randhawa: Ya, India is a Very Difficult country to 'categorize'! Whew, what an understatement!!

I was lucky enough to be mentored by one of those uneducated guys who do things through intution, who through trial and error learned his licks, and he could diagnose a Benz diesel like no MB factory trained tech could, so I get what you're saying about some of these underpaid 'tech's' in India...

I guess what I like about the hobby of home mechanics is the challenge of figuring stuff out, and while I don't always enjoy the work, the Reward of completing a job is, as you so aptly stated, Priceless!

Snap-On is good stuff alright, but even Sears Craftsman is totally adequate, and very reasonally priced w/a lifetime replacement program. Someday India will have all of these goodies too, and you'll have your Box; hang in there.

I'd Love to bring the KTM over here, but I hear that it's a serious pain to deal with customs, and the VAT is pretty devasting too. Then there is the issue of parts...and KTM's in general are highly tuned motors that require fairly constant attention, unlike say, a Honda, or my friends Triumph Tiger that is hiding in the picture below. So that would be some of the practical reasons why I should just move on to new horizons. The decision is tough though, more so when you've been through thick and thin together, as we both have with our machines, and I've got a Bunch of my heart & soul in that bike!

Another poor picture, but here I am in the campground that I spoke of earlier. I noticed an oil leak, which I'd never had, and when I went to inspect the issue, lost most of my oil in this campground that was far, far away from any town or people. There was simply no other option but to solve the problem.

[Abeer]

Are the issues mentioned in this entire thread only for Classic 500 or do they apply to Classic 350 also?