[lalgudi]

Originally Posted by drjones

Do anyone have any idea about the waiting period for a CL 500 in Chennai?
Dr.Jones

I booked a black C500 in April 2010 and am still waiting.

[diwa]

Originally Posted by drjones

Sorry Moderators, will correct myself. Do anyone have any idea about the waiting period for a CL 500 in Chennai?
Dr.Jones

Minimum 7 months and it is expected to come down slightly.

[KA18]

Originally Posted by drjones

Hi,

Good to hear 57 improvements coming through. I am planning to book a CL500 this week, is there any possiblity of these improvements during the delivery of my bike? Cause these improvements are much needed. Any link regarding these?

By the time you get your bike (around 7-8 months) hopefully, the defects would have reduced. RE is already acting on the same. Unfortunately, no link is provided about the improvements. You could check out the blogs in the RE site, though.

Your best bet on the internet would be Team-bhp with gurus like Randhawa, EssYouWee and Nasirkaka putting in their invaluable inputs on the UCE breed.

Originally Posted by drjones

I am also not able to zero in about the color, I have not seen all three colors. Guys I would love to have your inputs reg the color. According to me the green is too light/red is feminine. I always used to love the black and the olive green.

Since you love the Black, the choice is celar, it is Black all the way. In my opinion, Black looks 'Royal' on an 'Enfield'.

Originally Posted by drjones

I decided to go for a CL 500 to quench my looong standing thirst....

...Till now I have been owning only the indo jap bikes.

I have a pulsar 200 for the past three years which has run only 2500 kms till date .... Its only for commuting to my clinic once a while, but the CL500. ..... I know, I know, I am digging my own grave. For the guys who I am not known to and who feel a CL 500 needs constant care unlike its japanase counterparts.

Think before you take the plunge. I too was smitten by the Bullet bug since a lot of years. I sold my TVS Victor to buy the Beast.

I can tell you that the Bullet is not even half as reliable my earlier bike. It needs lot of care and attention. I had plenty of issues on my UCE Electra 5s. Quality is non-existent and be prepared to maintain it yourself if you want it to be up and running.

Your running is too low to justify a CL500. Retain your pulsar for the short rides if possible.

If at all you need to make a few trips once in a while, try to do it on a borrowed Bullet and decide if it is worth the trouble.

As you rightly said, you might be digging your own grave .


All the best, as Nasirkaka said, if u want to own a bull, prepare to clean the bullshit.

[vinjosep]

Hi Gurus,

have a question, does change of ownership invalidate the warranty for a brand new classic? Anything mentioned in the user manual?

[adityaj]

Originally Posted by vinjosep

Hi Gurus,

have a question, does change of ownership invalidate the warranty for a brand new classic? Anything mentioned in the user manual?

Yes. It does invalidate. Warranty is only for the first owner and for the first year.

[stnair]

Originally Posted by vinjosep

Hi Gurus,

have a question, does change of ownership invalidate the warranty for a brand new classic? Anything mentioned in the user manual?

I am no Guru but my CL 350 owners manual mentions warranty is valid for first owner only.

regards
san

[Randhawa]

@+Rex The seats you mentioned can be fitted with some mods but it all depends on once personal taste and comfort also to what extent you can go to sacrifice on looks for comfort or to choose a seat to keep a balance between booth.

@Nasir- Cone and cylindrical filter has same element and in fact the cylindrical has bigger are to suck more air. These days you will find some of the parts store will tell you facts which has no truth in reality just to move their products.

From my observation with the intake hose removed from the box, I felt in a split second the engine running rich after just about 2km. Its due to the parameters set in the mapping due to which once you reach the max limit on the parameters the ECU switched to rich as it has no more higher values stored in the mapping and unable to perform. BUT if we had the O2 sensor then it would have been totally different story as it would have balanced the ration and still perform better.

So in our case we have a limit to how much extra performance we can get out of our bike. With a better filter we are bound to get extra but it will be less then what we can achieve. I'll say we can get around 1bhp at max with a better filter and thats about it.

If you want more then either spend 20k on getting a O2 installed or find some one who can remap your existing stock ECU or get a piggy back ECU.

There is a another and better option of going the carb way. With which we can achieve far better results and scope of extra performance with a carb.

I'll be compiling a list of parts needed to convert the EFI system to Carb shortly with a breakdown of cost involved. This is more feasible due to lack of tuners or parts available in India for an ECU upgrade.

@Achint- Not much of a point on resetting the ECU as the values stored will not be erased. It will just jump to the next available values to run and it does just that within few minutes of running by itself as its a self learning OBDII ECU.

Any C5 owner with some mileage can tell you this as we know at times when our bulls perform like dogs if you ride it slowly for a little while and when you try to accelerate hard, it just gives you average performance. But if you twist it's ears for 15 minutes, its changes to stealth mode and bites back very hard

Up date on filter cover

Only limited no's of filter cover were put on to the new C5's so only lucky ones will be getting the filter cover. But the front & rear tyre upgrade is for everyone who is buying a new C5 unless the dealer has the old stock.

[EssYouWe]

Hey Sanjeet,

What would be the ballpark figure for the carb conversion? How much of a difference would be present if the UCE 500 were to be rolled out with carbs? I think they won't price it lower than 1.25 lacs.

As far as the air filter goes, I doubt it would really increase power. Filters usually do not, unless the engine has serious respiratory issues.

Not having driven the C5 enough, I wouldn't know if it really struggles for air at the top end or its just that all the developed power gets wasted thanks to the crappy internals.

Plus, I kind of disagree with the whole philosophy of bumping up power on a Bullet. I know a lot of people would disagree, but the whole point behind the Bull is leisure cruising and touring.

If there is anything that I would look at, it would have to be upgrading internals' reliability. Improved piston rings, a forged piston.. stuff like that.

How possible would it be to make a Bull more reliable? I understand it can't be easy, or someone would have done it by now. :P

PS: Tried calling you in the morning, phone switched off. Reached Canada ?

[nasirkaka]

@ Randhawa:

I am not really looking at a free flow filter to boost the performance, but mainly for matching it with my goldie, to save the valves. A goldie thump being the main criteria. If any performance boosts are achieved, that would be icing on the cake.

spending another 20k after all this on the lambda, would not make economic sense to me. I have already spent enough on the bike.

However, if i was really forced to spend, i would go with converting the bike to a carburetor one. Especially after the electricals breakdown, i am not too fond of all the electronics, the ECUs, the sensors, the EFI, etc. Would love to go the old way, and KISS (Keep It Simple and Safe). That way, i would be MORE in control of the machine.

Do share your findings on how to convert an UCE to a carbed one, and the cost implications.

Meanwhile, i will try and source the K&N cylindrical filter and install it in the filter box with the bigger plate. Can you confirm the product number. Is it E-3120 ?

[cogentr]

@ Dr. Jones, I booked mine in the end of Aug in Chennai. RE has taken my signed note stating I will not expect the bike any sooner than 4th Week of April 2011, so its 8 months!!

Among many others, I too have been a silent observer of this thread since day one.. I have to mention this, I am truly impressed with Randhawa, Nasirkaka et others for their knowledge and contribution to fellow thumpers. Great job guys!!
I am sure RE is also watching this space

[Randhawa]

@Achint- In present form the C5 is not making even close to 27Bhp and I am talking about power at the crank and not at the rear. We are hardly getting 21-23Bhp at max and yes this filter will give a little bit which might not be enough but even a little bit close to 1bhp will show up.

C5 does not struggles because it is getting adequate fuel to air and its designed keeping in mind three things. Capacity of air filter, resistance in exhaust flow and fuel delivery by the injector and on these things are the cams and rockers designed.

You play with one thing in the form of replacing the bazooka with upswept and you need to take care of the rest to maintain the balance.

Power on our bikes doesn't get waisted because its not developing that much of power as per the figures. So you cant loose what you don't have hey

Please for sake of RE do not compare UCE to any previously made RE product in India, its totally a different league by far which is misunderstood and underestimated. Yes there are few issues which can be easily be sorted if RE so desires and wont cost a thing.

I have to agree to disagree with you on your belief of Bullet meant only for cruising. RE got famous due to its racing history and not just for its cruising and times have moved on for better. Look at HD, their Hotrod and Buell. These bikes can hardly cruise now taking in account of their history.

Personally I never bought the C5 because it can cruise or if it can thump like a CI, in fact I get really annoyed with the loud noise. So if I bought the bike for entirely a different reason then surely there are others who went for the same.

I practice what I preach and if you go by my instructions of saving the sprag then your sprag will go a long way. I have done 13k(on a replacement) by religiously following the routine and not a single time had the sprag make any noise and I am still on my old sprag design and not a new one. Although it took me time to understand the whole shebang of it but I nailed it and I am happy with my findings. But thats the way it is and you posses a Bullet rather then just owning it. RE sells because its a cult bike and there are reasons behind to why it is and among one of them is taking care of the bullshit left by our bull(as rightly put by our comrades) which makes us involved with it and probably end up with an hair du of a Frankestien. But there is a limit to what we can take as the times have changed and we will have more reliable options to explore in near future.

Currently C5 sells for 1.29L and I would think if they ever came up with a carb 500 then it should be around 15k cheaper.

To make it more reliable, you would need to follow some rituals and prepare to get your hands dirty which does not includes a forger piston, it would be an overkill.

Just to make it reliable, RE or us would need to upgrade couple of things and improve on quality. But if we want to get the best out of this engine then upgrade of the rings without the forged route will be enough and thats only when you decide to ride like there is no tomorrow. Some people have already done the upgrade it requires but you are just not aware off it.



Just wait for few weeks and you will be surprised at my findings to what this baby is capable of in terms of reliability apart from the week points in the engine.

I just had the urge to convert it to carb and see what she is capable of so I am going into the details.

My phone is never switched off, may be I had week signal reception.

@Nasir- You are worrying too much about the valves, I assure you it will happen only in the rarest case. But what will worry you the most will be the rattly upswept when you give it some beans. I am on my third replacement and it seems to last only a week with me so I have kept my third upswept nicely packed and tucked in the garage.

Not too sure about the part no if its E-3120 or E-0900, best bet is to get an old filter from RE workshop and match it with the K&N.

It will be better if you get the old filter off a CI bull and get a new plate just to try it yourself on your bike before you spend some money. You should feel comfortable and happy about the fitment before putting in the K&N.

[nasirkaka]

It will be better if you get the old filter off a CI bull and get a new plate just to try it yourself on your bike before you spend some money.

I got a Mach 350 at my disposal. Can i assume that the airfilter used there would be similar to a CI, and try it out on the C5, with the larger plate to get fitment related doubts cleared?

This morning, i saw a classic zoom-by (black colour, not sure if it was 350 or 500). What caught my attention was the bike had a Short-bottle silencer, and was thumping decently. So a short bottle could be another option??

Power on our bikes doesn't get waisted because its not developing that much of power as per the figures. So you cant loose what you don't have hey

I like this.

Personally I never bought the C5 because it can cruise or if it can thump like a CI, in fact I get really annoyed with the loud noise. So if I bought the bike for entirely a different reason then surely there are others who went for the same

I do agree. Cruising is a relative term. One can cruise @ either 60kmph, or also @ 100kmph. I would have stuck to my machismo if i wanted to cruise @ 60kmph. I went for C5 as i wanted some more juice in-terms of how quickly i reach my cruising speed, could i maintain high cruising speed given the roads allow it, (talking of capability of the machine here, whether i do it or not is not important).

[adityaj]

@Randhawa:

I was readin thru this link to understand ODBII ECU. Not sure if there are different vairants for that, but the link below suggests that the oxygen sensor is the heart of the system.
4x4Wire - Tech: Understanding OBDII Engine Systems and Fuel Mixture Control

For Indian C5s which dont have lambda/oxygen sensor, how does this closed loop feedback mechanism work?

[Randhawa]

@Nasir- Filter and plate from your M350 can be used for the trial fit. Short bottle is a option but not a straight fit as the you will have to do some cutting and welding on the exhaust to mount in on the frame. The holding bracket on the exhaust is shorter so you have to either make a new strip to attach it on the frame or weld another piece of metal strip to hook it up.

@adityaj- OBD II ECU is a standard format for ECU's across the World as in 1996 it was changed from OBD I to OBD II. It was done across the globe so that all the manufacturers have the same fault codes which can be read by any scan reader and should mean the same. It was just to lay a standard across all the car manufacturers, as earlier with OBD I, one company will have a fault code for lets say faulty O2 sensor and throw fault code as 12 but the same fault code on another manufacturer could mean any other faulty sensor.

With the OBD II it can also have the Long Term Fuel Trim logged in from real time conditions and use the same set of values when the conditions re-occur. Kind of learns by itself within a limit.

That is a simple difference of OBD I and OBD II ECU. Apart from that OBD II has a open loop circuit and closed loop circuit.


In simple terms, open loop means guessing the amount of fuel delivery by referring to a pre determine chart(fuel map). It takes the values from the three sensors and compares it to the chart and adjust the Pulse Width of the injector for the fuel delivery, hoping for the best. After that it does not have a clue to what A/F ratio is actually provided according to the real conditions.

Thats our sad story.


With the closed loop circuit having an O2 sensor. The ECU gets feedback from the O2 sensor to tell weather it has delivered the right A/F ratio. The O2 sensor susses the amount of oxygen in the exhaust. If there is no oxygen in the exhaust then it thinks the ratio is rich and corrects it by leaning the mixture and vice versa.

When the engine runs at the stoichiometric (chemically correct) 14.6 A/F ratio (required for minimum emissions, and maximum catalytic converter efficiency), the combustion products should ideally be only water vapor and carbon dioxide. With the closed loop, it keeps hovering around the stoichiometric ratio and help the engine getting neither too lean or rich mixture for optimum performance.

[EssYouWe]

The short bottle can be fit onto the Bull with relative ease.

It comes with a steel plate to mount it by the two points on the exhaust to the body. You will just need to get a hole drilled into this plate, and you will be good to go.

Please do make sure that it is a single plate, and not a rough coupling.

PS: I have the OE exhaust and the Upswept lying around unused. Reasonable prices till Diwali

@Sanjeet: Delhi when?