Huge Jerk with Cold Start - Electra UCE

double · 11th November 2010, 14:39

Hi All,
I have an issue in my Electra UCE bike and I don't know whether it is an issue or every one is facing this.
The problem is, whenever I start my bike at cold condition / whenever I start my bike after 5 to 6 hours of last ride , After start, when I engage the first gear, the bike is Jurking like anything , even one time the front wheel is almost thrown from its place by half feet.

Some times , when I do the kick start from the above mentioned contitions, I am getting huge sound as if two metal plates are colliding with each other with high speed.

So nowadays, if I start from cold start, I am directly engaging the second gear to avoide this, ( Just is actually less in second gear).

Is this the problem with my alone ? OR Is there any one else who is facing this ? OR Is it the characteristic of Electra itself ?

Experts , Please through some light on this.

Thanks.

jeepster · 11th November 2010, 18:05

i can not figure out the problem but get your UCE checked at authorized work shop ASAP.

BIG SARAN · 11th November 2010, 18:16

Get the Bull checked at the authorized service center asap. Although I am also not able to figure out the problem with your bull but I have never faced such a problem with my UCE Electra till now. Do get it checked and let us know what it is and what was the remedy.
All the best.

aargee · 11th November 2010, 22:31

@Double - when did you last get you engine oil changed? Is your vehicle running rich? Pls confirm it by checking the color of your spark plug being black in color.

How many Kms have you clocked with the current sprocket wheel & chain? You may want to check the condition of friction plates in addition.

Last but not the least, do this experiment & post the result...
- Start normally & idle it for say 1+ minute or gently raise the engine. Idea being is to get the engine warmed up quick
- During the above process, engage & disengage the clutch several times
- Finally after a minute or so, engage the first gear. The jerk should NOT appear.

Let me know the outcome. Tks

EssYouWe · 11th November 2010, 22:35

How long do you idle after starting up? Do you let the engine warm up sufficiently?
How much play is present in the clutch cable?

aargee · 11th November 2010, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by EssYouWe

How much play is present in the clutch cable?

@Double, ^^^ is a good point. Do this in addition...
- Start the RE on main stands & keep it idling
- Engage the clutch & apply the first gear & keep the clutch engaged still
- Now the wheel starts rotating
- Having the clutch engaged, try stopping the rear wheel & it SHOULD be fairly easy without much effort. If not, then you need to adjust the clutch.

Also at what position of clutch does the vehicle starts moving? Is it somewhere when the clutch lever is near the handle bar or far away or somewhere in between?

Randhawa · 12th November 2010, 00:35

@Double- Please do not use kick start on cold engine and that noise you are talking about is from your sprag clutch which might get damaged soon.

The jerk can be avoided if you de clutch in the morning and your clutch is a bit tight. What you are feeling is clutch judder. Give some play in the clutch cable and it will stop.

Leepower · 12th November 2010, 00:51

The first thing that I do before cold starting my Cast Iron Bull is to apply the clutch and then kick the kickstart a few times (atleast 8-10 times in my case). Don't know if it will work here!!!

ricky_1605 · 12th November 2010, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randhawa

@Double- Please do not use kick start on cold engine and that noise you are talking about is from your sprag clutch which might get damaged soon.

The jerk can be avoided if you de clutch in the morning and your clutch is a bit tight. What you are feeling is clutch judder. Give some play in the clutch cable and it will stop.

I got my decompress cable removed because there was play in it causing an oil leak from there. The length of cable for old Tbird and new Tbird is different, the old cable is bit longer which doesn't adjust properly according to my mechanic. He advised me to go to some welder and cut a small bit and then again attach the hook by welding, but that cable got ruined because even the hook got melted. So now i have a normal tappet cover without the decompress cable

. My bike does not have an electric start. As the winter season is almost here i start my bike by kicking it 2-3 times in ignition off and then in ignition on to avoid the sprag clutch problem. Is it the right way?

guide me to avoid that problem.

Jaggu · 12th November 2010, 12:48

Oil from clutch plate is draining off and hence resulting in that jerk, one way to avoid it is to run the engine and activate and deactivate the clutch lever so that some lube gets in. I dont know how the clutch construction is, usually they have rubber oring between plates which hold the oil. This might be damaged or removed.

double · 12th November 2010, 12:56

Hi All,
Thanks for your responses.

>>@Double - when did you last get you engine oil changed? Is your vehicle >>running rich?
>>Pls confirm it by checking the color of your spark plug being black in color.

@aargee, My bike is still brand new, still the second service pending. I have done totally 2300KM and last oil change was at 530KM. For the spark plug stuff, I will have to check with the royal enfield service tomorrow.

>> Last but not the least, do this experiment & post the result...
>>- Start normally & idle it for say 1+ minute or gently raise the engine. >>Idea being is to get the engine warmed up quick
>>- During the above process, engage & disengage the clutch several times
->> Finally after a minute or so, engage the first gear. The jerk should NOT >>appear.

---> Idea Looks good, I will try on saturday morning cold start

>> Also at what position of clutch does the vehicle starts moving?
>> Is it somewhere when the clutch lever is near the handle bar or far away >> or somewhere in between?

---> It is some where in the middle, But not close to handle lever, it is at the other side only.

>>How long do you idle after starting up? Do you let the engine warm up sufficiently?
>>How much play is present in the clutch cable?
@EssYouWe, No. As soon as engine fires, I will start moving the bike by engaging the 1st gear.
and my clutch cable has the play almost full length possible with that clutch lever.
( Is that is correct? )

I could see that others also has given their suggestions.
I am going to try all to solve this issue.

Thanks,
Double

EssYouWe · 12th November 2010, 13:57

That is incorrect.

Do not run off on a cold engine right after successful ignition. Give it around 20~25 seconds to idle and the oil to circulate through the chamber.

Also, the clutch might be sticking in your case. The play in the clutch cable is defined as the movement in the cable when the lever is pulled in using very little force. It is the length of cable under free movement. Ideally it should be between 2 to 5 mm. Adjust it accordingly.

Also, as Sanjeet recommended, stick to the ES for the first ignition.

Let it warm up a bit, and I assure you the problem would disappear. You can also engage-disengage the clutch a couple of times to prevent clutch sticking.

Cheers

aargee · 12th November 2010, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by double

No. As soon as engine fires, I will start moving the bike by engaging the 1st gear.

Well, never move the vehicle as soon as you start. Allow up the engine to warm up for atleast 20-25 seconds before making your first move & in between this time, engage & disengage the clutch lever. If you do not allow to warm up the engine, you're damaging most parts including the cylinder & rings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by double

and my clutch cable has the play almost full length possible with that clutch lever.
( Is that is correct? )

Well, that shouldn't be the case. The clutch should ideally engage after few mm of difference from the handle bar. When you get the plug checked, also make a point to adjust the play of the clutch lever too.

Jaggu · 12th November 2010, 14:41

Leave a little slack at the cable, this is to negate the stretch that happens when handle bars are turned, in turn activating the clutch.

Ideal way to adjust (atleast from my experience), move the handle bar to the extreme right or left, where the cables are completely stretched. Adjust the cable in this position, so that there is atleast 2-3 mm free play at the handle lever.

Fully tightened cable with no play = possible clutch slip & premature cable snap.

If your vehicle is brand new, take it to the authorized RE workshop and get it sorted, these are not major issues.

double · 14th November 2010, 13:48

>>Last but not the least, do this experiment & post the result...
>>- Start normally & idle it for say 1+ minute or gently raise the engine. Idea >>being is to get the engine warmed up quick
>>- During the above process, engage & disengage the clutch several times
>>- Finally after a minute or so, engage the first gear. The jerk should NOT appear.

Great idea, and this idea perfectly worked out. After engine fires, I allowed it to idle for almost two min and meanwhile several times I engaged and disengaged the clutch and after complete two min I shifted into first gear.

Jerk did not appear , tried it on both saturday and sunday morning.

But the other issue of , metal plate crushing sound , is still there. Though I have not encountered it for the couple of days, I think it is still there.
Because as per one bhpian's suggestion above , I have used self start, Instead of kick start in cold start.

But , Is it OK ? Because the royal enfield service guys prefer, starting it by kick in the morning ?

Thanks in Advance.

11th November 2010, 14:39	#1
double BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bangalore( But Nomore gardens) Posts: 85 Thanked: 13 Times	Huge Jerk with Cold Start - Electra UCE Hi All, I have an issue in my Electra UCE bike and I don't know whether it is an issue or every one is facing this. The problem is, whenever I start my bike at cold condition / whenever I start my bike after 5 to 6 hours of last ride , After start, when I engage the first gear, the bike is Jurking like anything , even one time the front wheel is almost thrown from its place by half feet. Some times , when I do the kick start from the above mentioned contitions, I am getting huge sound as if two metal plates are colliding with each other with high speed. So nowadays, if I start from cold start, I am directly engaging the second gear to avoide this, ( Just is actually less in second gear). Is this the problem with my alone ? OR Is there any one else who is facing this ? OR Is it the characteristic of Electra itself ? Experts , Please through some light on this. Thanks.
	() Thanks

11th November 2010, 18:05	#2
jeepster Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: MH24 aka LATUR Posts: 1,694 Thanked: 1,927 Times View My Garage	i can not figure out the problem but get your UCE checked at authorized work shop ASAP.
	() Thanks

11th November 2010, 18:16	#3
BIG SARAN BHPian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: NCR Posts: 112 Thanked: 10 Times	Get the Bull checked at the authorized service center asap. Although I am also not able to figure out the problem with your bull but I have never faced such a problem with my UCE Electra till now. Do get it checked and let us know what it is and what was the remedy. All the best. Last edited by BIG SARAN : 11th November 2010 at 18:17.
	() Thanks

11th November 2010, 22:31	#4
aargee Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: TSTN Posts: 6,236 Thanked: 9,643 Times	@Double - when did you last get you engine oil changed? Is your vehicle running rich? Pls confirm it by checking the color of your spark plug being black in color. How many Kms have you clocked with the current sprocket wheel & chain? You may want to check the condition of friction plates in addition. Last but not the least, do this experiment & post the result... - Start normally & idle it for say 1+ minute or gently raise the engine. Idea being is to get the engine warmed up quick - During the above process, engage & disengage the clutch several times - Finally after a minute or so, engage the first gear. The jerk should NOT appear. Let me know the outcome. Tks
	() Thanks

11th November 2010, 22:35	#5
EssYouWe Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lucknow Posts: 1,391 Thanked: 18 Times	How long do you idle after starting up? Do you let the engine warm up sufficiently? How much play is present in the clutch cable?
	() Thanks

12th November 2010, 00:35	#7
Randhawa Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brighton Posts: 1,193 Thanked: 355 Times	@Double- Please do not use kick start on cold engine and that noise you are talking about is from your sprag clutch which might get damaged soon. The jerk can be avoided if you de clutch in the morning and your clutch is a bit tight. What you are feeling is clutch judder. Give some play in the clutch cable and it will stop. Last edited by Randhawa : 12th November 2010 at 00:38.
	() Thanks

12th November 2010, 00:51	#8
Leepower BHPian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Maharashtra Posts: 366 Thanked: 78 Times	The first thing that I do before cold starting my Cast Iron Bull is to apply the clutch and then kick the kickstart a few times (atleast 8-10 times in my case). Don't know if it will work here!!!
	() Thanks

12th November 2010, 12:48	#10
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,215 Thanked: 15,907 Times	Oil from clutch plate is draining off and hence resulting in that jerk, one way to avoid it is to run the engine and activate and deactivate the clutch lever so that some lube gets in. I dont know how the clutch construction is, usually they have rubber oring between plates which hold the oil. This might be damaged or removed.
	() Thanks

12th November 2010, 12:56	#11
double BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bangalore( But Nomore gardens) Posts: 85 Thanked: 13 Times	Hi All, Thanks for your responses. >>@Double - when did you last get you engine oil changed? Is your vehicle >>running rich? >>Pls confirm it by checking the color of your spark plug being black in color. @aargee, My bike is still brand new, still the second service pending. I have done totally 2300KM and last oil change was at 530KM. For the spark plug stuff, I will have to check with the royal enfield service tomorrow. >> Last but not the least, do this experiment & post the result... >>- Start normally & idle it for say 1+ minute or gently raise the engine. >>Idea being is to get the engine warmed up quick >>- During the above process, engage & disengage the clutch several times ->> Finally after a minute or so, engage the first gear. The jerk should NOT >>appear. ---> Idea Looks good, I will try on saturday morning cold start >> Also at what position of clutch does the vehicle starts moving? >> Is it somewhere when the clutch lever is near the handle bar or far away >> or somewhere in between? ---> It is some where in the middle, But not close to handle lever, it is at the other side only. >>How long do you idle after starting up? Do you let the engine warm up sufficiently? >>How much play is present in the clutch cable? @EssYouWe, No. As soon as engine fires, I will start moving the bike by engaging the 1st gear. and my clutch cable has the play almost full length possible with that clutch lever. ( Is that is correct? ) I could see that others also has given their suggestions. I am going to try all to solve this issue. Thanks, Double
	() Thanks

12th November 2010, 13:57	#12
EssYouWe Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lucknow Posts: 1,391 Thanked: 18 Times	That is incorrect. Do not run off on a cold engine right after successful ignition. Give it around 20~25 seconds to idle and the oil to circulate through the chamber. Also, the clutch might be sticking in your case. The play in the clutch cable is defined as the movement in the cable when the lever is pulled in using very little force. It is the length of cable under free movement. Ideally it should be between 2 to 5 mm. Adjust it accordingly. Also, as Sanjeet recommended, stick to the ES for the first ignition. Let it warm up a bit, and I assure you the problem would disappear. You can also engage-disengage the clutch a couple of times to prevent clutch sticking. Cheers
	() Thanks

12th November 2010, 14:41	#14
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,215 Thanked: 15,907 Times	Leave a little slack at the cable, this is to negate the stretch that happens when handle bars are turned, in turn activating the clutch. Ideal way to adjust (atleast from my experience), move the handle bar to the extreme right or left, where the cables are completely stretched. Adjust the cable in this position, so that there is atleast 2-3 mm free play at the handle lever. Fully tightened cable with no play = possible clutch slip & premature cable snap. If your vehicle is brand new, take it to the authorized RE workshop and get it sorted, these are not major issues.
	() Thanks

14th November 2010, 13:48	#15
double BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bangalore( But Nomore gardens) Posts: 85 Thanked: 13 Times	>>Last but not the least, do this experiment & post the result... >>- Start normally & idle it for say 1+ minute or gently raise the engine. Idea >>being is to get the engine warmed up quick >>- During the above process, engage & disengage the clutch several times >>- Finally after a minute or so, engage the first gear. The jerk should NOT appear. Great idea, and this idea perfectly worked out. After engine fires, I allowed it to idle for almost two min and meanwhile several times I engaged and disengaged the clutch and after complete two min I shifted into first gear. Jerk did not appear , tried it on both saturday and sunday morning. But the other issue of , metal plate crushing sound , is still there. Though I have not encountered it for the couple of days, I think it is still there. Because as per one bhpian's suggestion above , I have used self start, Instead of kick start in cold start. But , Is it OK ? Because the royal enfield service guys prefer, starting it by kick in the morning ? Thanks in Advance.
	() Thanks