Team-BHP - Tata Aria 4x2 : Test Drive & Review

Quote:

Originally Posted by noopster (Post 2456058)

You guys are missing the point: it's not what the Aria is, it's what it's perceived to be that I was talking about. It will take more than just high-gloss advertising to convince a buyer that the Aria is not in fact susceptible to the niggles and glitches that Tata vehicles are known for.

An average 228 vehicles per month is not a bad number- my point is that it could be MUCH higher if Tata were able to onvince the vast majority among the buying community that it *is* in fact a differentiated offering from the Innova, which most people almost naturally compare it to.

I am withholding judgement till some long-term ownership reviews start pouring in.

While I totally agree with your point here but aren't you ignoring a fact that it might just be your perception (by you I mean many others as well) but not for major part of market (again I am making an assumption here).
And yes glossy advertisements do play a role as your direct promotional efforts :Shockked:, how else would you highlight the differentiation of the product. I know there are other ways as well but advertising is also a part of one's integrated marketing communication plan.

As of what I have seen the way promotions are going on for the product, ATL and BTL, within a short span of time the communication is very well doing its job. People on T BHP are discussing the points of differentiation of the ARIA and the segment. clap:

I believe within this year itself aria would broadly differentiate itself from innova. Numbers are and will favor innova for a long time to come because of Toyota brand name, visibility and reliability that it offers and because of the wonderful product that it is. But aria is bound to be 'categorized' in a different segment by market.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stratos (Post 2454142)

Launched in October 2010, the Aria AWD marked the entry of Tata Motors into the premium car segment. One drive is enough to know just how far ahead Tata's engineering capability has progressed. The Aria felt & drove like no other Tata vehicle; a pity that it lost the brand's usually value-for-money positioning as well. Positioned above the Toyota Innova, but below the 18 lakh SUVs, the Aria 4x4 found itself in no man's land...a segment of its own with no real direct competitor.

This is one of those rare cars where a manufacturer offers beige interiors on the base variant! I personally did not like the finish of the beige interior, especially when combined with the shiny fake wood. In my opinion, the interior of the Aria looks best in dark colors. Of course, this is entirely subjective & will vary from person to person. See what works for you.

Tata needs to work on consistency in its production process. I noticed varying panel gaps between the different test cars that were provided to us.

Thanks Strato.

Your 1st statement could not be more true, direct and factual.
Nice of you to acknowledge.

Your second statement strikes a chord with me, but then it is personal.
I know of people who have paid to get those interiors.
I personally, have sometimes not bought 'scale models' because of that combination.

& your last statement, is a NAGGING issue with Tata. Just fail to understand why.
Keeping my finger's crossed with the Manza LE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by channelv (Post 2455245)

Isn't that how you develop a brand name?

Have the Indica, Indigo & Safari (with their niggling problems) built one? I have experienced the problems first hand as an Indigo owner. Sure, the new Manza is infinitely better, and the Aria seems like a giant leap ahead, but can they wipe out 15 years of niggles? I don't think so. Look up the several what car threads, as well as ownership discussions, that touch upon this factor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami (Post 2455258)

I have checked with a lot of Innova fleet owners including the ones we have in our office ( A fleet of over 40 innovas) and a common refrain is that the maintenance of the Innova is prohibitive

Reliability & cost of spares are two entirely different things. I don't mind paying 60 grand for a compressor if it lasts 10 years. However, I do have a problem paying the same amount every 2 years (my German steed is on its 3rd compressor already).

Agreed with your post, where you have stated that the Innova's parts are expensive. No two sides to that. However, it is still fanatically RELIABLE and its parts last unbelievably long. When they need replacement, yes, the spares cost is higher than for the Qualis, but hey....atleast you get what you pay for (we can safely presume that the better the quality of part, the higher the cost??).

Ditto with Honda. My Civic's parts are VERY expensive. Good thing is, they rarely fail. I'd rather have this, than a car with cheap parts + frequent failure (my Indigo).

Quote:

Originally Posted by damodar (Post 2455346)

The beige interior is not exactly bad looking also not preferable in terms of long term maintenance.

I actually prefer the beige interiors. And no, they aren't a pain to maintain at all (search & look up pictures of my cars wearing beige interiors, including one that's over 5 years old). You only need to get them cleaned up every 6 - 7 months thoroughly. My Civic's interiors look the same after 18 months of use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by julupani (Post 2455557)

Cmon seriously, if I was looking at an Aria for 15-16 lakhs, I dont think I would settle for a Innova.

Each one of us has our own purchasing styles; I know of one too many customers who cross-shopped between the Innova & Aria. Both are MUVs at the end of the day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by julupani (Post 2455960)

Whatever brand pull or track record they have, it seems not to be doing too bad at all.

Agreed, especially for the most recent two months. Hope Tata is able to sustain this momentum that the 4x2 has provided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by psbali (Post 2455992)

Have you guys seen Aria's ad on TV? Try driving an innova like that and let me know how you feel.

I think we are better informed than to make judgements based on car advertisements, so lets keep that out of the picture. Else, every SX4 owner will be talking of 180 degree handbrake turns on his ownership thread, and Karizma owners of 60 second wheelies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO (Post 2457870)

I guess you got my point wrong, being a Safari owner myself, I know very well what niggling issues are and that for sure would affect the brand, Tata!
I was making a point that Aria would bear the brunt of all those 15 years of niggles thanks to its brand where in Toyota was able to built a brand name for itself as a reliable car maker and that would push people to prefer Innova. :)

I still don't understand where our opinions differ.

The white aria looks superb! Splendid design from TATA and I have to say the biege interiors are better than the plum color one on the 4x4. If I were in the market for an MUV right now, I'd go for the Aria just because of the way she looks :)!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO (Post 2455161)

The Innova (and Qualis) have an unbelievable reputation on the street. Well deserved, I'd say.

Experienced this first hand. A few years back, while going to Tuticorin in a taxi, while on a tea break, the driver was on his phone and started talking excitedly. After he hung up, he told me that the Toyota Qualis had been relaunched! He was on cloud nine when he heard the news! (later I found out that it was the ICML Rhino that the taxi trade mistook for a face-lifted Qualis!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO (Post 2457870)

You dont get my point. I was providing a reference there instead of describing what to do exactly. saves me from typing the description.

What I meant was try driving an Aria on the ghat roads or on curvy roads and experience the fun that you cannot have in an Innova. If you read my post you will notice that I meant that Aria is a fun to drive car and Innova is just a people mover. For ex:- Body roll is better controlled in which car? Which car will feel more confident to drive at 150 kmph speed? (not that I think one should) but my main point is comparison between Aria and Innova and even by you is not correct. Both cars are different and the ones who own them have a different need.

Aria gives us an expensive SUV feel at the right cost with features that will cost 5 lakh rupees more in suvs a segment above Aria.

And also what I meant was Aria can be actually driven how they drive it in the AD. Leaving the swirls and degree turns that you are talking about. We have experienced it first hand.

Not supporting Aria just because I own it. This was my opinion even before joining t-bhp. Like how I think punto is a better car in its segment from purely driving point of view even when I dont own one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami (Post 2455258)

this is more a perception than reality. It was true for the qualis but not the innova. I have checked with a lot of Innova fleet owners including the ones we have in our office ( A fleet of over 40 innovas) and a common refrain is that the maintenance of the Innova is prohibitive and post 1 L KMs, it is not really a VFM in terms of running costs. Hence call centers have of late switched to Taveras and you see Innovas more as "premium" taxis.....but such is the strength of the Toyota brand that it will take a while for the perception to be affected.

My friend bought second hand 1.25 LAKH kms. run innova for Rs. 8 lakh ( approx. ). The car is still running great and is about to complete 1.5 Lakh kms. I have personally seen more than 2 lakh kms. done Innova used as a Taxi. As we know, a lot of factors are involved like driver, route on which the car is plied,etc. But overall, Innova has got a solid reputation beyond belief. Just check the second hand car market price for Innova. Innova is relatively new to market yet has build a solid image due to its reliability and parts that rarely fail. Lower arm of Innova will cost around Rs. 5.5K ( IIRC ) and I paid Rs. 7.5 K per lower arm for Baleno.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO (Post 2457870)

Ditto with Honda. My Civic's parts are VERY expensive. Good thing is, they rarely fail. I'd rather have this, than a car with cheap parts + frequent failure (my Indigo).

Each one of us has our own purchasing styles; I know of one too many customers who cross-shopped between the Innova & Aria. Both are MUVs at the end of the day.

Agreed about expensive parts. They rarely fail in case of Toyota or even Honda. Even in case of humble Maruti small cars, parts wont fail that fast. Japanese have made a name for themselves and this factor played an instrumental role.

Now as you mentioned, both are MUV's, I have a few questions :

1) How is handling of Aria 4X2 vs. Innova. I am asking this as there are more varying reports of Aria 4X4 being excellent to having more body roll than Innova ( but less than Safari, Scorpio, Xylo ). 4X2 weighs less, but has become 4X2, so does this affect behavior significantly ?

2) Does Arai 4X2 handling and ride get affected with full load ? Innova, even with full load rides well and is stable even at 140. Has tata changed dmaper ratings for Aria 4X2 ?

3) Spare part price of Aria 4X2 compared to Innova for suspension parts, small accident repair and specially ORVM. This can be decisive and more information ( if available ) is welcome.

4) Turbo lag in city. Innova is super responsive compared to cars like Polo and second generation Verna CRDI ( that fantastic 1.5 mill ). How does Aria 4X2 compare with Innova on this ?

Here goes - was watching the comments passively..

Just FYI from an owner prespective: My Aria is presently at 22,000 kms. Only worth mentioning niggle till date has been the Reverse Camera that has just recently stopped working after getting a bit too wet in the monsoon. It is an extra feature so can live with it for some time, they have ordered a replacement. There is another guy who goes to the same service centre who was at 30,000 kms when I was at 11,000 kms. :) - In just 4 months - he should be beyond 60 k kms already.

The Oil change prescribed is 15k kms, I am doing it every 10 k kms.

The Steering in the 4X4 is indeed quite hard, and much lighter in the 4X2, also the 4X2 accelerates better (almost 10% lighter), but then the 4X4 feels stiffer and (stronger) over road bumps, while the 4X2 feels softer over the same bumps. (16" vs 17" rims)

I believe the Pleasure 4X2 Aria is a better bet than the Innova V. And the pure model just does not make too much sense, the Pleasure 4X2, Prestige 4X4 and Pride 4X4 make best sense to me.

Yes the Innova has built a reputation of reliability, but there are also many who do say that when things start to go wrong with it after about 130,000 odd kms the cost of spares is very high.

Yes totally agree that I too would prefer more expensive parts that last than cheaper one that fail repeatedly or worst expensive ones that fail repeatedly. This is unproven territory in the Aria and I and a few others would be personally experiencing it first. Hope the experience turns out +ve over the next 4-5 years as well.

I do need to mention that the Service Support for the Aria is much better than for other TATA vehicles and a distinct premium support is indeed given to it's customers. i have experienced it first hand for sure.

The numbers that the Aria has been doing are sure to improve and should better some of the other current price segment leaders soon, fortuner may be left as the only other segment leader.

The Aria's biggest flaw to me is that it does look a bit like the Innova in profile and that is something that I don't really like.

Stratos - nice and to the point review.

Stratos, Delightful review on Aria 4x2. Looking how TATA's are pricing and positioning Aria it looks like their aim is to build exclusivity for large family MUVs and I don't think they are directly competing with Innova nor they are largely worried about the volumes at this point of time. While Aria is an excellent attempt by TATA's to makeover their image in the market they still have a very long way to go. I am only hoping the Jaguar deal will bring some quality benefits to TATA's products and help market change its perception about TATA Motors. IMO TATA's should have exclusive showroom only for Safari & Aria and start selling them as lifestyle vehicles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercedised (Post 2454168)

I don't understand why the arm rests have been removed? Crap idea, even the Safari LX gets arm-rests. Why would I buy an Aria if it lacks this basic features and there is no other reason, neither do the engine specs too convincing that one should buy and stripped down ARIA. I think they forgot that it is not a making of NANO where they will have to compensate on each and everything. And this all when TATA said that the 4x2 will not lack in features?

Stop cribbing, people. You just want stuff for free. The Aria 4x2 is an innova beater for sure. I knew this kind of criticism was bound to happen. Tata should just withdraw the Aria and close the chapter. Indians don't deserve a well built vehicle at a good price. You just want to act like primary school children and
get all chocolates for free. They've done a good job of reducing the cost without compromising on safety (ABS!). The Aria is built like a tank. Its a shame, I mean a shame to keep listening comments like this. Centre arm-rests are not basic features. Which versions of the Innova come with centre arm-rests, may be V or VX. And there is a difference in cost as well.
First you call a crossover an MUV (GTO, no less) and bring it down, then when the 4x2 comes, you crib about that too.
And what engine specs are you talking ? I mean, do you need mercedes-spec engines? The next remark to come would be about how much fuel it sips because it develops 200 bhp. Half the country moves around at highway speeds in 70 bhp Boleros and don't crib. You got special sensitive skin or something?

Sorry to be so critical, but it's hard to take in negativity about a company that's genuinely trying hard to improve. There are issues, but there are issues with every brand as well. :Frustrati to the lot of you. clap: to Tata for listening to the market and bringing out a required variant. Euro NCAP be damned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpmx1000 (Post 2464471)

What about the airbags.. If Tata was so concerned about Safety why the heck remove them from Pure...

I am not even comparing with the Innova. For me Innova is a taxi and a good one at that. But if you want families to own the Aria, air bags in the Pure version should have been put in.

Cheers